Blackfish64 Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 The value of anything is at the mercy of the market or individual. Price is subjective for a reason. How is the trade of anything, including precious metals, controlled by the state? I can go on Craigslist right now and barter for something I need, without using the government (other than their legacy in creating DARPAnet) or their money. This fear mongering of gold confiscation is completely misplaced when every day the politicians are lying and the central banks are stealing purchasing power from anyone who owns and uses the dollar. They already did the gold confiscation in the United States. Under FDR. You are allowed to own gold right now, but that could change once again real soon. There's really no tellin' what they might be up to next. But they haven't taken the pensions yet. So that's a good sign for gold owners at the moment. When they take the pensions, either through taxation or outright confiscation, then they'll see about the rest of the private property, how much they are going to allow you to have, if any. Maybe they'll take both at the same time? Hard to tell what those crazy Statists might be up to next.
powder Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 good points on the gold issues, thanks for the responses.
J. D. Stembal Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 They already did the gold confiscation in the United States. Under FDR. You are allowed to own gold right now, but that could change once again real soon. There's really no tellin' what they might be up to next. But they haven't taken the pensions yet. So that's a good sign for gold owners at the moment. When they take the pensions, either through taxation or outright confiscation, then they'll see about the rest of the private property, how much they are going to allow you to have, if any. Maybe they'll take both at the same time? Hard to tell what those crazy Statists might be up to next. Confiscation is very unlikely to ever happen again, and if it does, just don't turn yours in. It's pretty simple. If you did something unfortunate like keep it all in a bank vault, well, then you are out of luck because the bank will confiscate it from you. Do you know where all that confiscated gold went starting in 1933? It went to foreign banks with U.S. Dollars that they wanted to convert into gold. Since 1971, this has not been possible, so it is very unlikely that gold will ever be turned in again. Relevant link: http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/gold-confiscation-1933/ In the fiat money paradigm, no government or central bank wants to consider hoarding gold, at least not as a public policy because this is an admission that their previous policies have failed. Peter Schiff has some great videos about central banking policy and the role of gold within the fiat paradigm. This is just the latest one which talks about the European Union which is currently considering QE. (fast forward to 15:00 to get to the gold comments)
Blackfish64 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 Confiscation is very unlikely to ever happen again, and if it does, just don't turn yours in. It's pretty simple. If you did something unfortunate like keep it all in a bank vault, well, then you are out of luck because the bank will confiscate it from you. Do you know where all that confiscated gold went starting in 1933? It went to foreign banks with U.S. Dollars that they wanted to convert into gold. Since 1971, this has not been possible, so it is very unlikely that gold will ever be turned in again. Relevant link: http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/gold-confiscation-1933/ In the fiat money paradigm, no government or central bank wants to consider hoarding gold, at least not as a public policy because this is an admission that their previous policies have failed. Peter Schiff has some great videos about central banking policy and the role of gold within the fiat paradigm. This is just the latest one which talks about the European Union which is currently considering QE. (fast forward to 15:00 to get to the gold comments) Absolutely positutely. This is why we own metals in the first place. So we can easily hide them when the going gets rough. As for them never confiscating our goods again.... um, no. They will confiscate everything and anything they can get their hands on. I never put anything past them. I think of nothing but all manner of their evil. They are good for nothing and will stop at nothing. Anyone who trusts anything they say is a fool. We know P.I.G.s (people in government) are lying because their mouths are moving and sound is coming out. Zero trust for any of them, ever. Never ever trust any of them under any circumstances. These are people who advocate torture for crying out loud. What gave you the first clue?
J. D. Stembal Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 It's much more likely that confiscation will be of digital fiat money from US bank accounts. This is also why the ultra wealthy stash money in off-shore bank accounts, such as in Switzerland. If you have precious metals, how do they know you have them or where you are hiding them? It's impossible to track these assets. Also, Bitcoin is a real threat because of the anonymity and encryption. If you can buy and sell anything using Bitcoins, there is no efficient means to track e-commerce, which means that it cannot be taxed. This is the real threat that Bitcoin poses to the financial powers that be. Once the dollar starts crumbling, which mathematically has to happen, the average person will see a lot more utility in owning Bitcoin and precious metals. That's why I'm loading up on them right now. Also, I am going after depressed petroleum stocks. It's more risky than precious metals, but it's a commodity we will still need for the foreseeable future, so I won't be holding the bag for too long and these companies usually give out great dividends in the mean time.
Blackfish64 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I don't buy paper. I don't invest in the stock market. When I buy silver, I take delivery, or there's nothing doing.
J. D. Stembal Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I don't buy paper. I don't invest in the stock market. When I buy silver, I take delivery, or there's nothing doing. How would you take physical delivery of oil? It's pretty obvious that this is not logistically feasible. If you want to play in oil speculation, you have to use the stock market. I'm not saying that you should have the desire to go long on oil right now, but there are investors who do. As much as I love silver, I don't want to put all my eggs in that basket. Historically, silver is less stable than gold. There is a podcast available to gold donators about rare strategic metal investing that I listened to a while back. You can buy a basket of industrial metals, like Iridium and Halfnium, possibly in an IRA account, and you are covered for inflation and protected from market manipulation and volatility, unlike with silver, platinum and gold (and petroleum). Unfortunately, it is illegal to take delivery of such metals so the company provides off-site storage in Switzerland as part of their overhead costs. The company is called Swissmetal.net. I've been thinking long and hard about buying a basket for my retirement account. I don't think a deflationary environment would be good for these investments, however. Check out the charts: http://swissmetal.net/daily-values/
Blackfish64 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 How would you take physical delivery of oil? It's pretty obvious that this is not logistically feasible. The only way I take physical delivery of oil is in the form of gasoline, in my tank. Other than that, I don't expect to take delivery of any oil. I don't buy paper. I don't trust them. I don't trust anyone.
shirgall Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I don't buy paper. I don't invest in the stock market. When I buy silver, I take delivery, or there's nothing doing. I have to echo this on precious metals. Other commodities don't work out as well as this, though. I have chickens, though.
J. D. Stembal Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 The only way I take physical delivery of oil is in the form of gasoline, in my tank. Other than that, I don't expect to take delivery of any oil. I don't buy paper. I don't trust them. I don't trust anyone. I understand your apprehension. After 15 years of investing, I've only had one company go bust on me with no safety net to catch it, and I don't feel like I was cheated, just very naive and misinformed about what was going on. The only reason I had shares in it is because it was a spun-off subsidiary of Verizon, which subsequently went bankrupt. The snafu cost me $300 if I remember correctly. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-15/verizon-begins-defense-of-9-dot-5-billion-idearc-lawsuit
Blackfish64 Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I have to echo this on precious metals. Other commodities don't work out as well as this, though. I have chickens, though. Chickens rule.
J. D. Stembal Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 I can't believe I forgot to include this video in this thread. It's about 90 minutes. 1
GasCap Posted December 16, 2014 Posted December 16, 2014 good points on the gold issues, thanks for the responses. just curious, so did endofusrpation and blackfish64 convince you to get some gold and silver?
powder Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 just curious, so did endofusrpation and blackfish64 convince you to get some gold and silver? they did indeed make a convincing argument and the idea of owning precious metals more appealing. I was going to buy a bunch of silver a couple of years ago (Canadian coins) but I never followed up. I am thinking things are going to get hairy within the next year or two so I am looking into getting out of a bunch of cash.
J. D. Stembal Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 You did have valid concerns about market manipulation. Gold and especially silver could fall up to 50% more in the short term. This will make for a lot better buying opportunities. On the other hand, it could never be cheaper than it is right now. You don't really know what is going on, or what the effects of government mismanagement and manipulation will be. Molyneux and Schiff have some great insights on the future of bitcoin and precious metals as replacement currencies for the American Dollar. However, we all know that the dollar will not go down without a fight. It's in its death throws right now, and there's going to be a lot of collateral damage. I'm spreading my eggs as wide and in as many baskets as I can. I know that we preach non-aggression here, but everyone is going to have to be prepared to use to violence in self-defense, physically and economically.
Blackfish64 Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 Silver closed yesterday at $15.87 per toz. It's still like buying dirt. Get some silver.
Existing Alternatives Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 For the record, the original post was an interpretation by Examiner of Zerohedge’s interpretation of the proposed frameworks. Once again, interpretation of an interpretation. Neither of the interpreters are particularly objective, so here is your classic case of purposefully broken telephone. If you really want to know what was proposed and discussed at those meetings, go to the source. Ultimately, the proposal pertaining to the cash deposits came down to allocating additional capital to the deposits in a similar manner as it is currently allocated to higher risk assets, such as stocks on the banks’ balance sheets. It is supposed to make the banking system more resilient. Whether or not it will, I won’t comment, but it won’t do is “make deposits subject to decrease”. How in the world did the original article ever deduce that? 1
GasCap Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 Silver closed yesterday at $15.87 per toz. It's still like buying dirt. Get some silver. I am still waiting for gold to go down to $700 and silver to $10
J. D. Stembal Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 I am still waiting for gold to go down to $700 and silver to $10 If this happens, by all means, go balls deep because all hell will be breaking loose in the economy. At the moment, with current prices, investors are continually nibbling at the cheese. I think slow and steady wins the race, though. Buy incrementally every time there's a substantial pull back. If you are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a crash, you might miss it in the chaos, or as Mike Maloney & Company like to point out, historically curirency revaluation happen over a holiday weekend when there isn't much news going on. If you aren't paying attention, for example, on January 2, we could have a new dollar that's worth 1/1000 of the old dollar through executive fiat. You're going to have a problem filling up you gas tank to drive to work supposing you still have a job. I'd like to have a little bit of a hedge against that scenario.
Blackfish64 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I am still waiting for gold to go down to $700 and silver to $10 Those are some sweet prices. When I moved to NV in late 2001, I started buying lots of silver. I was getting it for less than $4.00 per toz. Man, would I like to see that again! Because, for me, silver is for buying, not for selling.
GasCap Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Those are some sweet prices. When I moved to NV in late 2001, I started buying lots of silver. I was getting it for less than $4.00 per toz. Man, would I like to see that again! Because, for me, silver is for buying, not for selling. Nice you got in way ahead of the game. I got in 2012.... and we all know what happened after that... still hanging in there though If this happens, by all means, go balls deep because all hell will be breaking loose in the economy. At the moment, with current prices, investors are continually nibbling at the cheese. I think slow and steady wins the race, though. Buy incrementally every time there's a substantial pull back. If you are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a crash, you might miss it in the chaos, or as Mike Maloney & Company like to point out, historically curirency revaluation happen over a holiday weekend when there isn't much news going on. If you aren't paying attention, for example, on January 2, we could have a new dollar that's worth 1/1000 of the old dollar through executive fiat. You're going to have a problem filling up you gas tank to drive to work supposing you still have a job. I'd like to have a little bit of a hedge against that scenario. I try to buy every pay cheque but is waiting for the last big drop... even if i catch it the premium is probably +$10.00
J. D. Stembal Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Nice you got in way ahead of the game. I got in 2012.... and we all know what happened after that... still hanging in there though I try to buy every pay cheque but is waiting for the last big drop... even if i catch it the premium is probably +$10.00 What do you like to stack? I've been going with 2014 Silver Eagles (I just started this year) and they're generally $4-5 over the spot price.
Daniel Unplugged Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 There is a very practical experiment you can make. Try to get out more than 1000$ in cash and you have to tell the bank 24h in advance so they "prepare" the cash... I don't have this problem in Australia. If I am withdrawing over $5000 or so, it is not a bad idea to call ahead, because they don't keep a huge amount of cash in the til, and the safe is on a time delay. Only once (out of many times) has either of my banks ran out of money to fulfill a large withdrawl. They had to order some more cash in from their main vault. I'm not in the least bit concerned about it, they must have had a lot of withdrawls that day. What do you like to stack? I've been going with 2014 Silver Eagles (I just started this year) and they're generally $4-5 over the spot price.I own a lot of silver, but i am not a silver coin 'collector'. By that i mean that I don't buy numismatics, anything high premium or many different varieties. I have enough 1 oz and 1/2 oz generics to get me through a currency collapse and everything else is 1kg bars for my retirement. I see no need to keep anything else. I don't particularly think i'll have to use the coins anytime soon. It would take a Weimar style hyperinflation for your average merchant to be willing to accept them. Currencies 'collapse' all the time. Rarely do those collapses result in merchants accepting silver as payment, they just go on accepting the local currency at the devalued rate. 99% of the population love the idea of kidnapping enforced, totally unbacked, government printed toilet paper for money. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I wish it would, but I'm not holding my breath.
Blackfish64 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I stack one ounce rounds, ten ounce bars, and one hundred ounce bars. I've found that's the easiest way to handle and store silver. I like to buy junk silver, too; it's easiest to keep that in coin bags.
GasCap Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 What do you like to stack? I've been going with 2014 Silver Eagles (I just started this year) and they're generally $4-5 over the spot price. I am located in BC Canada. I usually buy maples now because I think it is easier to sell(generally to LCS). I think it's hard to just go on craigslist in canada to find a buyer in Canada...
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