JordanS Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 Stef has said multiple times there are studies that show this link. Does anyone know of these sources he is referencing? Thanks
Pepin Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 Wiki is a pretty good source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_rejection I don't think Stefan has said it is like torture, yet it is like physical pain. They've done some studies where they find physical pain receptors light up when someone is ostracized. Extended periods of ostracism might be like torture, but I'm not sure if it would be scientifically valid to say so. Really, experiments to confirm such a hypothesis would likely be unethical.
dsayers Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 Extended periods of ostracism might be like torture, but I'm not sure if it would be scientifically valid to say so. Really, experiments to confirm such a hypothesis would likely be unethical. I don't think so. If a person voluntarily submitted to the experiment, there would be no dilemma.
Ken Cotton Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 Couldn't you use the effects of solitary confinement to come to the same conclusion?
Pepin Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 I don't think so. If a person voluntarily submitted to the experiment, there would be no dilemma. To clarify, not unethical in the sense of the NAP, but unethical in the professional sense. For instance, in the business world, accepting a business deal where there is a conflict of interest is considered unethical. Was there a violation of the NAP? No, but it is not seen as valid practice. In the same way, scientists torturing people might create an uproar, regardless of if they agreed to it or not. As far as my thinking on professional ethics goes, I see it mostly as very serious aesthetic ethics.
Blackfish64 Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Dad and Grandma ostracized me for not getting good grades. I was left out of getting money for good report cards (even when I did manage to get good report cards), and my sister, the Golden Child was held as the best example I could follow. It's hard to do well at anything when you are ostracized, berated, slapped around, psychologically abused and maltreated, i.e, damned if ya do and damned if ya don't. I would say that ostracism is a mighty powerful thing. Yes, torture. It made my childhood a living hell. There was not a grade in school I went to in which I was not compared to my sister and then promptly dumped on. Ostracism in some cultures, even today, means certain death. If you were an aboriginal American just a couple of hundred years ago, and thrown out of your tribe, well, you were pretty much screwed. With no way to survive, it meant certain death. The Amish, to this day, practice shunning members of the community when they don't adhere to certain Amish law. When this happens, the ostracized can't trade with anyone, speak to anyone, join in any community events. If he's permanently shunned, he has no choice but to go out into the big wide world on his own and have at it. Even some animals do this. Dolphins, for example, will ostracize members of the pod who don't pull their own weight on a hunt. When the hunt is over and everyone has gotten their fill, the lazy one is literally, physically rammed out and away from the pod to wander off and die alone. Ostracism is hell, to say the least. This day in age, with so much and so many people around, it is much easier to recover from such fate. And in some cases, as it was in mine, when I got older and went out on my own, ostracism was just fine by me. They didn't want me anymore, and I didn't want them. Perfect. I went out in the world and made my own way, my own friends, and my own living. Not being a part of Dad and Grandma's dip-shit world was actually easier and better for me than being in it. Hooray for ostracism! Don't know where I'd be today without it!
Pepin Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 I think Stefan's book On Truth is related to the conversation. Ostracism is the primary means through which people perpetuate the state. Enforcement is ultimately not carried out by the police, or the military, but rather the citizen.
EmperorNero Posted November 23, 2014 Posted November 23, 2014 Stef has said multiple times there are studies that show this link. Does anyone know of these sources he is referencing? Thanks I've read that the pain of being ostracized piggybacks onto the same pain neurons that are used for feeling physical pain. Although later I read that's not really true. Depends who you ask, I guess. Here's a really interesting article on how being ostracized gives you low willpower.
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