TheKiosk94 Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 I doubt this post will get any response, but here goes... So, I was volunteering at Goodwill on Saturday, and I was discussing about how I didn't want to go to college with another guy. Apparently, he was in a similar situation too and actually dropped out of college, because the gen eds pissed him off. He said that he decided that he wanted to join the Marines. I asked him whether he was going to join part of the military where you kill people directly. He said that he might. I then started to ask him if he was aware that if he had any plans for the problems he might get from joining the military. I listed that there is a possibility that he might get suicide tendencies, since, 30 out of 100,000 soldiers commit suicide. He stated that those who committed suicide are simply too weak for the military. I also stated that he might get some health problems like PTSD, coming out of the military. He stated that PTSD was a bullshit disease and that most veterans who got PTSD were only pretending to have it, so, they could get benefits. He also added that the only reason the government hasn't cracked down on it is because PTSD is a popular disorder and that attacking it would lead to bad publicity. So are his "claims" true. Kinda curious what the military veterans think about this guy who hasn't been in the military yet, but, he is thinking of joining.
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Sounds like either one or both of his parents wouldn't believe him/take him seriously if he were sick or upset about something. And now he's considering being a professional killer. Yay.
dsayers Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 He stated that those who committed suicide are simply too weak for the military. How does he know? How does he know that's a bad thing? He's actually right! But this is a mark of a person's empathy, not a mark against them. Too weak for the military is a good thing. It means somebody doesn't want to hurt somebody who hasn't done anything wrong. Similarly, I've always had a problem with PTSD too. Again, not for the reasons that guy might think. I find the D to be turning something that's good/normal into something that's problematic. It's a good thing that trauma is harmful to people. I've experienced something similar after having to pull a gun on another human being. It was a scenario that they forced me into, but I still didn't want to have to do it. I wouldn't call that a disorder at all. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to try and discourage somebody from joining the military. Also wanted to point out that you were using utilitarian arguments. I understand why; People respond to incentives. As long as you understand that 1) the moral consideration is far more important and 2) there's a reason why he accepts the claim that military personnel are in a different moral category and can steal from everybody to provide a service that nobody wants. If you don't identify that reason, you're probably not going to have much luck convincing them otherwise. If you haven't already, please check out Stef's Bomb in the Brain series for a better explanation of the science behind this. 1
Snafui Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Nod, smile, and then walk away. He will not listen to facts let alone reason.My PTSD issues stem from a 45 day stint in Panama that has to do with me relaying information about a drug interdiction. I have nightmares, trouble sleeping, and have woke to sweats where a heavy comforter had to be wrung out. I have had hallucinations and constant dread of sniper fire. I had my working memory fried by ECT in an attempt to clear the depression--it failed. I am now 100% disabled due to this. Drag him to the VA but he won't see the trauma... he'll call it anything but.
Ken Cotton Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 This mostly just sounds like the kind of stuff that comes from ignorance on a subject. I'm sure if he spent some time with the people or saw the right material he'd change his mind. 1
J. D. Stembal Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I doubt this post will get any response, but here goes... So, I was volunteering at Goodwill on Saturday, and I was discussing about how I didn't want to go to college with another guy. Apparently, he was in a similar situation too and actually dropped out of college, because the gen eds pissed him off. He said that he decided that he wanted to join the Marines. I asked him whether he was going to join part of the military where you kill people directly. He said that he might. I then started to ask him if he was aware that if he had any plans for the problems he might get from joining the military. I listed that there is a possibility that he might get suicide tendencies, since, 30 out of 100,000 soldiers commit suicide. He stated that those who committed suicide are simply too weak for the military. I also stated that he might get some health problems like PTSD, coming out of the military. He stated that PTSD was a bullshit disease and that most veterans who got PTSD were only pretending to have it, so, they could get benefits. He also added that the only reason the government hasn't cracked down on it is because PTSD is a popular disorder and that attacking it would lead to bad publicity. So are his "claims" true. Kinda curious what the military veterans think about this guy who hasn't been in the military yet, but, he is thinking of joining. He's towing the line for the propaganda arm of the military and he hasn't ever joined yet? Let him join and find out just how much his country appreciates his service when he gets put on a non-treatment list after washing out of the Marines. I know a former Army Ranger who is still fighting with the VA after a few years over covering medical expenses.
B1-66ER Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 He said that he decided that he wanted to join the Marines. He stated that those who committed suicide are simply too weak for the military. He stated that PTSD was a bullshit disease and that most veterans who got PTSD were only pretending to have it, so, they could get benefits. He also added that the only reason the government hasn't cracked down on it is because PTSD is a popular disorder and that attacking it would lead to bad publicity. So are his "claims" true. Kinda curious what the military veterans think about this guy who hasn't been in the military yet, but, he is thinking of joining. I'm pulling these particular comments out of the post because of there inherent idiocy. 1. OK, so your not actually a Marine? You just want to become one, correct? 2. Tell the thousands of soldiers who have committed suicide, "PTSD is bullshit". The only thing that remotely resembles bullshit regarding PTSD is it's name, and how to effectively treat it without the bumbling and meddlesome state creating even more problems than it already has. 3. Did your recruiter tell you this or did you come up with this factually void "idea" yourself? The government and big pharma love PTSD. It created an entirely new market of damaged souls to buy into their SSRI's and mind poison! Chemically lobotomized consumers are easily suggestible and dependent. Don't forget the fact they're always repeat buyers as well. I once found nobility in "service" to be an noble trait, after having served I realized how easily war mongers can manipulate the idealistic. Seeing as how he isn't very enlightened or particularly rational about the idea of killing people for the state, it seems war mongers can manipulate the stupid a lot easier. 1
IndianaLee Posted December 16, 2014 Posted December 16, 2014 I was young when I went in and I wish I'd never done so. It's amazing that they use the young to murder others. Now, don't get me wrong, there are times one has to defend one's self, but the military is about something else. Anyway, PTSD is very real. I don't have it, but I do have ME and they say the same thing about it. I'd love for some of these folks that say this to feel the physical pain and exertion I feel when having symptoms, especially when they say this, although I'd never wish this on anyone. He has no idea what he's talking about. Sure there are people that fake things, but this doesn't mean obviously that all of them do. Besides, the military fights such claims with vigor after you're out of active service especially. Theyre' done with you at that point you might as well say for all practical purposes. It's too bad the military is so attractive to young men, but this is because of other issues obviously such as parenting and the economy / state, etc,. Tim
Justus Ranvier Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I'm going to post the mental translations I hear when I think about some of these quotes. I asked him whether he was going to join part of the military where you kill people directly. He said that he might. I hear him saying that he wants to be killed, and he'll kill other people to punish them for not getting the job done. He stated that those who committed suicide are simply too weak for the military. He stated that PTSD was a bullshit disease and that most veterans who got PTSD were only pretending to have it, so, they could get benefits. Here I imagine a father beating his child and then humiliating him further for crying. I also see a child showing all the symptoms of abuse - depression, withdrawn, etc and then being accused of "faking it" to elicit undeserved sympathy. I'd like to hope that somebody this far gone could be saved, but the odds are against it.
Jer Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Here I imagine a father beating his child and then humiliating him further for crying. I also see a child showing all the symptoms of abuse - depression, withdrawn, etc and then being accused of "faking it" to elicit undeserved sympathy. I'd like to hope that somebody this far gone could be saved, but the odds are against it. I was a soldier and this describes my childhood pretty well. I've been saved OP, your arguments are valid but you're arguing from efficiency rather than morality. I'd ask if he thinks murder is wrong and go from there.
Justus Ranvier Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I was a soldier and this describes my childhood pretty well. I've been saved I'm both sorry and glad to hear that. Just out of curiosity, how well does the person described in the OP match your attitude at any point between when you were in the army and now?
Jer Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I'm both sorry and glad to hear that. Just out of curiosity, how well does the person described in the OP match your attitude at any point between when you were in the army and now? I had a similar response when people asked if I was going to do a "killing" job in that I wasn't seeking out the opportunity but wouldn't be opposed to the idea. Some people I trained with joined because they wanted to kill and that bothered me even then. I was Christian and after I told him I was talking to the recruiter my father gave a sermon in church singing the virtues of patriotism and honor...
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