25 Invisible Benefits of Gaming While Male

[shirgall]

Quick! Be ashamed of the choices you didn't get to make!

 

I especially like the "I will never have my gaming ability judged..." ha ha ha ha ha!

[Pepin]

As someone who spent a lot of time playing Counter Strike in the past, I can agree with some of these, like inquiring about breast size and attractiveness. I think the issue with most of these points is that the gender is claimed as a cause, when it is rather just douchbag players who will act like douchbags in regard to any factor they can possibly be douchbags with.

 

The main ones I have a problem with are the ones that deal with the protagonists being males. It is pretty easy to figure that if the primary market is males, that the games will target males. I don't see how this is at all a problem that needs to be proactively addressed because the market will cater more to females as more females become gamers. I think their argument is:

 

Games are created for men because men are the primary consumer

Women are uncomfortable with the material as it isn't catered to their preferences

Most women are discouraged from getting into video gaming because of this factor

Video games will continue to only be catered to men

 

The issue claimed is that there is some semi-permanent barrier that requires intervention on the societal side to fix due to the arguments self-reinforcing nature. This isn't at all needed, as if there is the demand, then it will be incredibly profitable for people to cater to female gamers.

 

I also think it is good to talk about the subject in terms of cosmetics. We don't often see lipstick marketed towards males, rather the whole cosmetic industry seems to be directed towards females. Men who want to put makeup on feel uncomfortable about the lack of male role models in the cosmetic industry. If a male does where makeup, they are likely to be bashed and harassed by both genders, and it is all because they have a penis.

Not saying the above is the same, but saying that video games should market to all sexes is like saying that the cosmetic industry ought to market to both sexes. Why aren't they at the moment? Lack of demand. Now if you know for certain that there is a huge demand for the product, then it is probably best to put it all on the line and to make a product marketed towards the opposite sex.

 

Personally, I always play as female characters in games. I don't like it when I don't have the option to. I also like strong females characters, though I also like strong characters in general, doesn't matter the sex. I do think there are serious issues in gaming and social media when it comes to females, like how half the comments on female youtubers channels are about how the person want to have sex with them, but these are likely the same idiots who post other moronic comments elsewhere. There can certainly be annoying dicks who don't shut up about how a girl is playing video games and how she should be back in the kitchen, but these these are the same idiots who yell the n word every time they die.

[J. D. Stembal]

I'm a little perplexed by this video.

 

When are men hostile to women while playing video games?  We know they make up about 5-10% of all online gamers and are usually pretty welcoming when we know they're out there. It's well known that guys will say some crude, controversial or disturbing things to one another when they think there are no women listening (the men's room effect), but as soon as you hear a female on vox, the tone of the conversation instantly changes. If anything, I think the video game industry and community has really tried to roll out the red carpet and typically are going out of their way to cater to the approval of women, for good or for ill.

[AynRand]

I thought I'd post a serious response, so here is my refutation to this video.

1 This is true for both male and females neither gender has to go crazy when an anonymous gamer makes a rude comment.

2 I admit there is a issue here, but that I disagree that it is the patriarchy. I think black people could make the same argument if you just change the word gender with race. In my opinion gaming is targeted to specific audience, and libertarian principles are the solution.

3. Nobody feels safe posting personal information almost anywhere on the internet, and if you say you just want to post your username and it happens to be a female name and you might get harassed I'll tell you that my name shockingly is not Ayn Rand, and I'm a guy.

4. Gaming cred is based on how well you have done in previous matches depending on which game your playing. Not on your gender. I'll just give a anecdote I really suck at Halo when I play online when people say I suck my response is not "no you don't understand I'm a guy so that means I have great gaming cred."

5. I would like more explanation from this one because I don't know that it means. What attention do gamers pay to anyone who enthusiastically likes a game. Do they want to say "I like this game" and then all the players hit pause and ask questions like "how does that make you feel?"

6. I think that is an extremely minor problem to point out. Is the solution to just stop the male gamers from making YouTube videos?

7. People have made dick jokes to my face at every convention I have ever been to. With the exception of professional business conventions.

8. Again I don't understand this as I have never had to speak for my gender on a video game. I can't keep a straight face while typing this like when has anybody sincerely had to speak for an entire gender over a video game? I don't understand this.

9.  I disagree again people make fun of the size of a males dick all the time. 

10. I disagree again dick jokes and ejaculation are often brought up is the context of ridicule. My point is that this is a problem, but not a problem based on gender.

11. Again I agree this is a problem, but not one based on gender. Occasionally (especially in Call of Duty) People on the other end make fun of anybodies voice for being to "gay".

12. I disagree, and I have just now realized that since you are not going to provide citations for you quote "arguments" I'll just leave it at I disagree.

13. If I try to buy Barbie dolls people assume I'm a buying those for a female friend or relative of some sort.

14. Molyneux has made some great arguments of why this occurs, and how to solve it. Feminism is not the answer. Try agorism and counter economics.

15. Which set a standard that I can never meet, and as a result develop body image problems. Not actually I meant to parody that feminist argument about how Wonder Woman causes body issues.

16. This seems to just be a restatement of argument number 2 so just read my response there.

17. For the third time I don't understand this argument. Are they saying that by visiting a website they will be assaulted as a result? Are they saying that their comments will be ridiculed because in that case again this happens to both males and females.

18. This is just a statement I don't understand why you would want to hide your real life gender. I guess I good response would be if a guy has a crazy name he would also be made fun of.

19. Again harassment occurs all the time over the size of a guys junk.

20. This is like the fourth time you have restated this argument. Male penis's get made fun of all the time.

21. Fifth time you have made this cough cough argument.

22. I personally can testify that I have been sent photos of male genitalia over the internet. My response is that many people are the exact embodiment of what they just messaged me.

23. Male virgins get made fun of too. I've lost the will to try to make better arguments at this point I wish they had posted citations supporting this.

24. Do you want to attack the motivations to why people say stuff now?

25. I give this list no credence at all, and wouldn't even have known that the author is a male without them making that cough cough argument for why sexism exists in gaming.

[Lians]

This is what a white knight looks like!

[Wuzzums]

Translation: "We'll say anything just to get some pussy."

[shirgall]

When are men hostile to women while playing video games?

 

Attention from betas is hostility. That's the bottom line. Kinda like the idea that gals don't want to friendzone a guy unless he presses too hard. "Couldn't you just leave it alone?"

[ParaSait]

What a bait video. I would click this video to hear some of the positive effects of playing video games. Instead you get lectured by a bunch of feminist doofuses.

[Buggy]

I especially like the "I will never have my gaming ability judged..." ha ha ha ha ha!

As a former gamer with thousands of hours in various games... Trying to make the case that most "skill" related insults are racially influenced when you in the majority of todays games don't get to know the skin color of your fellow players... Can only be summed up by a gif.

 

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

Here's the alpha-male version.

 

[Kevin Beal]

You know, it means something when ladies want to fake being gamers. Why would you fake your way into something unless you stood to benefit from doing so? In the gaming world, people are absolutely fucking desperate to include women. Guys love girl gamers, maybe even beyond reason. Of all the male dominated places to cry sexism, this is, to my mind, the most insane. (Second only to being a female developer).

[shirgall]

You know, it means something when ladies want to fake being gamers. Why would you fake your way into something unless you stood to benefit from doing so? In the gaming world, people are absolutely fucking desperate to include women. Guys love girl gamers, maybe even beyond reason. Of all the male dominated places to cry sexism, this is, to my mind, the most insane. (Second only to being a female developer).

 

What's even more amusing is that girl gamers actually enjoy a number of benefits too.

 

For example, finding groups to do the more difficult things in online games together is fairly hard, but the groups that I see set up on Facebook, for example, develop a clear pattern. If a girl asks for help she gets a ton of offers. If a guy asks for help the response is considerably less, leading to people posting, "maybe I should get my girlfriend to ask for help for me so I can get through this mission."

 

I think it is a microcosm of the "catcall" offense mentality, where someone only wants attention from those she feels worthy of her gaze, and detests those that offer it unwanted.

 

It reminds me of the bar scene, where a gal will complain that 50 guys offered to buy her a drink and only 1 is interesting, and a guy will complain that he'll approach 50 gals in a night to find 1 that accepts. Darn patriarchy!

[WasatchMan]

So this is what a Hipster White Knight  parade would look like.

[J. D. Stembal]

I thought I'd post a serious response, so here is my refutation to this video.

1 This is true for both male and females neither gender has to go crazy when an anonymous gamer makes a rude comment.

2 I admit there is a issue here, but that I disagree that it is the patriarchy. I think black people could make the same argument if you just change the word gender with race. In my opinion gaming is targeted to specific audience, and libertarian principles are the solution.

3. Nobody feels safe posting personal information almost anywhere on the internet, and if you say you just want to post your username and it happens to be a female name and you might get harassed I'll tell you that my name shockingly is not Ayn Rand, and I'm a guy.

4. Gaming cred is based on how well you have done in previous matches depending on which game your playing. Not on your gender. I'll just give a anecdote I really suck at Halo when I play online when people say I suck my response is not "no you don't understand I'm a guy so that means I have great gaming cred."

5. I would like more explanation from this one because I don't know that it means. What attention do gamers pay to anyone who enthusiastically likes a game. Do they want to say "I like this game" and then all the players hit pause and ask questions like "how does that make you feel?"

6. I think that is an extremely minor problem to point out. Is the solution to just stop the male gamers from making YouTube videos?

7. People have made dick jokes to my face at every convention I have ever been to. With the exception of professional business conventions.

8. Again I don't understand this as I have never had to speak for my gender on a video game. I can't keep a straight face while typing this like when has anybody sincerely had to speak for an entire gender over a video game? I don't understand this.

9.  I disagree again people make fun of the size of a males dick all the time. 

10. I disagree again dick jokes and ejaculation are often brought up is the context of ridicule. My point is that this is a problem, but not a problem based on gender.

11. Again I agree this is a problem, but not one based on gender. Occasionally (especially in Call of Duty) People on the other end make fun of anybodies voice for being to "gay".

12. I disagree, and I have just now realized that since you are not going to provide citations for you quote "arguments" I'll just leave it at I disagree.

13. If I try to buy Barbie dolls people assume I'm a buying those for a female friend or relative of some sort.

14. Molyneux has made some great arguments of why this occurs, and how to solve it. Feminism is not the answer. Try agorism and counter economics.

15. Which set a standard that I can never meet, and as a result develop body image problems. Not actually I meant to parody that feminist argument about how Wonder Woman causes body issues.

16. This seems to just be a restatement of argument number 2 so just read my response there.

17. For the third time I don't understand this argument. Are they saying that by visiting a website they will be assaulted as a result? Are they saying that their comments will be ridiculed because in that case again this happens to both males and females.

18. This is just a statement I don't understand why you would want to hide your real life gender. I guess I good response would be if a guy has a crazy name he would also be made fun of.

19. Again harassment occurs all the time over the size of a guys junk.

20. This is like the fourth time you have restated this argument. Male penis's get made fun of all the time.

21. Fifth time you have made this cough cough argument.

22. I personally can testify that I have been sent photos of male genitalia over the internet. My response is that many people are the exact embodiment of what they just messaged me.

23. Male virgins get made fun of too. I've lost the will to try to make better arguments at this point I wish they had posted citations supporting this.

24. Do you want to attack the motivations to why people say stuff now?

25. I give this list no credence at all, and wouldn't even have known that the author is a male without them making that cough cough argument for why sexism exists in gaming.

 

When I was mentally processing the list, I was convinced the video was satirical, using heavy amounts of irony. Then, at the end, the collective man shaming message went out to the gaming community. I facefalmed, mostly at my initial reaction.

 

The two that struck a chord with me the most were 7 and 18.

 

Seven suggests that women who go to conventions get harassed. 99% percent of the women you find there are models who are hired to act the part of female gamer to better sell the tech products they are promoting. (One in 100 may actually be a professional gamer.) The few real gamer ladies that show up in a non-professional capacity usually come with a group of people which includes their boyfriend or significant other. Therefore, any woman at a LAN party/gaming convention are well insulated, both professionally and socially, from being harassed or assaulted by anyone.

 

Eighteen suggests that a man would never seek to obscure his real gender in game. I would routinely pick the female character models in some first person shooters because they were smaller and harder to hit in some instances. This benefit carried on into role playing games, where you have to "LFG" (looking for group). If even subconsciously, someone thinks you are a woman because you are using a female avatar, it will be much easier to find a group. It's not so much that I wanted to obscure my gender, but that I wanted to use all the practical benefits being a female gamer would provide me. I didn't see it as misrepresentation, but gaming the system in my favor.

[luxfelix]

23 More Benefits of Gaming Regardless of Gender:  

 

 

For what it's worth, every game I've worked on I worked with women, and they were often in senior positions; likewise, at gaming conventions and during casual play, gender was a non-issue, and because what I've read about the controversy does not match what I experience working on and playing games, I take the information with a grain of salt. 

[J-William]

 

I don't know, I like playing as the princess because she can float really far...

When I play as a male it's just not as fun of a game... So I'm hoping this is a hot tip video that will illuminate some of the invisible benefits of playing as Mario or Luigi, otherwise I'll stick with princess, thank you very much!

[iHuman]

Great Googly Moogly, what a Steaming Mountain of BS that first Video was.

 

They might as well have been trying to say that Water is Dry, at least 99% of their points the opposite is true in all except for a very tiny minority of instances that simply involve gamers of the "Caveman" or "Uber Sore Looser" variety (that make up for about 00.01% of all gamers) that do the same regardless of Gender.

Take the Mental Giants who think it is somehow "Fun" to go through the effort of digging up a Targeted Gamer's Name & Address & Phone Number, Spoof Thier Phone Number, and call in a fake story to the local police to get the Swat Team to violently raid them. (A thing Known of as "SWATTING")

(Video Examples)

(about 6 Minutes in)

(10 examples in one video)
 

(Documentary about the problem)

(A Gamers Thoughts on it & his own experience)

(Another Gamer's Thoughts & Experience)
 

[yagami]

This is dumb. I mean there are some pretty racist things people say on the in games too but does anyone really think these people are racist. People say the racist and sexist things just to piss people off. These people get a kick out of trolling others and that's all it is.

[Kaki]

Karen Straughan published the first part of her response yesterday, in case you haven't seen it:

 

 

 

Also, thanks iHuman for the info about swatting, I had not heard about this!

[yagami]

Karen Straughan published the first part of her response yesterday, in case you haven't seen it:

 

 

 

Also, thanks iHuman for the info about swatting, I had not heard about this!

Damn she can really drink. But good review of the video.

[Psychophant]

Darn, in the days of the good old patriarchy women's actions depended on your approval    and nowaday if you don't approve of their actions they bully or shame you by proxy in order to make them look good. Ah, actually those overt gynocentric women, also called feminists who pretend to speak on behalf of all women do that.

[Fleshy]

Karen Straughan published the first part of her response yesterday, in case you haven't seen it:

 

 

 

Okay, she makes some fine points, but her immaturity on screen is almost intolerable for me. Honestly, spouting out things like 'faggot' and 'cunt' before downing a flask of vodka, then making the same joke over and over about penis size? Not entirely sure what she's trying to prove, but please: just the facts next time. It's all that's needed.

[Kevin Beal]

Okay, she makes some fine points, but her immaturity on screen is almost intolerable for me. Honestly, spouting out things like 'faggot' and 'cunt' before downing a flask of vodka, then making the same joke over and over about penis size? Not entirely sure what she's trying to prove, but please: just the facts next time. It's all that's needed.

I don't understand. Are you asking Kaki to tell Karen this? Do you expect your opinion to be taken into serious consideration by the Karen? Karen is probably not reading our posts. If you want to tell her how she should produce her videos, you might have better luck going to her directly.

[PatrickC]

Part 2 came out recently.. Perhaps she's matured..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPHFX3BLmc

 

No idea why it wont embed annoyingly.

[kahvi]

You know, it means something when ladies want to fake being gamers. Why would you fake your way into something unless you stood to benefit from doing so? In the gaming world, people are absolutely fucking desperate to include women. Guys love girl gamers, maybe even beyond reason. Of all the male dominated places to cry sexism, this is, to my mind, the most insane. (Second only to being a female developer).

I commented on another video of a guy dissecting this original video and it has blown up to be the most commented on post. (I'm so proud of myself) But, to what you said, it's true. My husband was heavily involved in gaming, mostly counter-strike, and he was in a group. I asked him if he ever experienced any animosity toward female players. He said,"Hell no! If anything, we loved it when women played." Now, I understand that just because he never witnessed it, it doesn't mean it doesn't occur. But, it leads me to believe that the isolated, misogynistic comments are made by douchebags and it's better just to find a group that isn't full of them. Some of the others accused me of excusing bullying behavior. I dislike bullies just as much as anyone, but sometimes the most rational thing to do is just walk away, especially when there are groups out there who will welcome women with open arms.

 

On the other hand, men are constantly attacked by other men calling them "pussies" and "fags", but you never hear about these guys complaining. They typically retort with an equally venomous remark and move on.

[shirgall]

On the other hand, men are constantly attacked by other men calling them "pussies" and "fags", but you never hear about these guys complaining. They typically retort with an equally venomous remark and move on.

 

Actually, in my experience, most players shut or mute chat (either typed or spoken) unless they join a guild or solid group of players with whom to regularly play. Casual pick-up groups just plain suck at team tactics, and teaming in general.

[yagami]

Actually, in my experience, most players shut or mute chat (either typed or spoken) unless they join a guild or solid group of players with whom to regularly play. Casual pick-up groups just plain suck at team tactics, and teaming in general.

I think that's really based on maturity. I am pretty quick to mute people unless someone says something hilariously stupid then I have to point it out. A lot of young kids are on these games which is where I think the majority of the toxic speech comes from not "men". But this group of people more than any knows how many man-child people are out there. It's just my opinion really that a lot of these people are kids.

[PatrickC]

I used to run an internet cafe, back when you could actually make money on it. And we had a rather large Counterstrike clan that laughingly now we put in the basement of the shop. I always remember whenever a woman showed interest, they would fall over themselves to help her.

 

To be honest, I only ever had to calm them down when there cheering or jeering reached crescendo levels that started to disturb our regular customers on the ground floor. However, it was mostly friendly banter and I never recall any misogyny.

[iHuman]

I commented on another video of a guy dissecting this original video and it has blown up to be the most commented on post. (I'm so proud of myself) But, to what you said, it's true. My husband was heavily involved in gaming, mostly counter-strike, and he was in a group. I asked him if he ever experienced any animosity toward female players. He said,"Hell no! If anything, we loved it when women played." Now, I understand that just because he never witnessed it, it doesn't mean it doesn't occur. But, it leads me to believe that the isolated, misogynistic comments are made by douchebags and it's better just to find a group that isn't full of them. Some of the others accused me of excusing bullying behavior. I dislike bullies just as much as anyone, but sometimes the most rational thing to do is just walk away, especially when there are groups out there who will welcome women with open arms.

 

On the other hand, men are constantly attacked by other men calling them "pussies" and "fags", but you never hear about these guys complaining. They typically retort with an equally venomous remark and move on.

 

 

In Gaming Groups (particularly PC Gaming Groups) your aptly named "Douchebags" are usually dealt with quickly, harshly, and usually under a 3 strike system (3rd strike results in permanent expulsion)

 

the "Kids" mentioned in other posts are primarily on consoles and similarly to the swatting problem have mental/personality issues where they somehow get the idea that it is fun to cause problems for other people (sometimes referred to as "Trolling") also these same types also are most often the ones using cheats of one form or another that essentially play the game for them.

 

in most cases that I have seen where a female gamer was being attacked, everyone else (regardless of team/side) would go open season on the idiot doing it.

[yagami]

I used to run an internet cafe, back when you could actually make money on it. And we had a rather large Counterstrike clan that laughingly now we put in the basement of the shop. I always remember whenever a woman showed interest, they would fall over themselves to help her.

 

To be honest, I only ever had to calm them down when there cheering or jeering reached crescendo levels that started to disturb our regular customers on the ground floor. However, it was mostly friendly banter and I never recall any misogyny.

The anonymity the internet provides gives people the chance to let loose without consequences. You can be an internet tough guy and no one can do anything about it.

[PatrickC]

The anonymity the internet provides gives people the chance to let loose without consequences. You can be an internet tough guy and no one can do anything about it.

 

I'll be honest yagami, I'm not sure I understand your point. I understand they're all kinds of people hiding behind anonymity as a means to 'act out' on all kinds of forums and people on the internet.

 

The argument would be, 'to what degree is this occurring'? Or even better, 'compared to what'?

 

I'd personally say it was limited to banter and any arguments to the contrary, are mostly the exaggerated complaints of 'snowflakes', white knights and those like Sarkeesian seeking some kind of career and resources from them.

[yagami]

I'll be honest yagami, I'm not sure I understand your point. I understand they're all kinds of people hiding behind anonymity as a means to 'act out' on all kinds of forums and people on the internet.

 

The argument would be, 'to what degree is this occurring'? Or even better, 'compared to what'?

 

I'd personally say it was limited to banter and any arguments to the contrary, are mostly the exaggerated complaints of 'snowflakes', white knights and those like Sarkeesian seeking some kind of career and resources from them.

I guess what I am saying in my experience people acting like real jerks in games is pretty common. It's not just arguments it's stuff like "go kill yourself" or "your mother should have swallowed you" and on and on. It's not to say this cant or wont happen in public but I get the sense that these are not only comment meant to be hurtful ( as opposed to a playful "you suck") but also make the gamer feel like an internet tough guy. Now I dont know for sure this is caused by anonymity but it's just a theory I have.

 

The type of games I play are team based games 5 strangers play 5 strangers. When someone is toxic and insulting his team or the other team he gets reported, muted or both. I feel like if someone was right in front of you there would be a way less likely chance of players being toxic. Thinking about it now I guess part of it is the anonymity and the fact that if you upset everyone in the game there will be another 9 people who have never seen you before right around the corner. Either way you cant have that in a public place.

 

Again it's not a proof or anything I just cant imagine these things being said in a public space. At the same time I've never run an internet cafe so maybe Im just inexperienced in that way.

 

Also I see very little white knighting in games. Although it is somewhat rare to be in game with a female that has identified herself as a female when it does happen I dont see much flocking to help. At the same time I realize my experience in this area is limited since it doesn't happen very often.

[Quadrewple]

A list of implicit assumptions made in the original video: 

 

1.   Women are so insecure that they need to have more females in video games to gain some vicarious sense of empowerment in regards to their gender.
2.   Both males and females have a constant need to validate their genders' power in comparison to the other gender, and in comparison to video game AI.
3.   Women are so insecure about their hobbies and interests that if someone asks them if a purchase related to their hobby is a gift for someone else, they are too weak to deal with an incorrect assumption by others regarding their own preferences.
4.   Males automatically prefer male characters and females automatically prefer female characters.
5.   If a woman is being harassed online, it must be because the harassers hate females - it couldn't be that trolls just say whatever will get the strongest emotional reaction out of their victims.

This list of assumptions is held by basically every third-wave feminist I've come across, and you can see these assumptions at work when these feminists talk about just about any aspect of life - not just video games.  This unfortunately also applies to lots of people who talk about racism.