I Hate My Body: Skinny Boys and Muscle Men

[RyanT]

Came across this documentary today, pretty interesting, constantly of course  hear about 'body image' in relation to women but when it comes to men...Does seem the prevailing notion that we just don't care, which is quite odd? (I probably know more guys who go to the gym regularly than girls) Still came as a bit of a shock when the stated that '80% of British men hate they way look'

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32A4j4hx88s

[prolix]

I hate the way 80% of British men look, so, to me, that seems like a reasonable number...

[Lars]

I saw that documentary a few months back, it's off-putting how they ignore blatant dysfunction in favor of body image concerns, to treat symptoms as causal toward relationship woes.

Also, what about steroid addiction? That's a pretty significant issue when it comes to the body-building community.

[TheSchoolofAthens]

I use to be quite insecure about my body - very skinny. I learned that what was important in life was my mind, being a rational person, and pursuing virtue. Fortunately I am in a relationship with a girl who loves me for my virtues and also loves by body, not because my body is perfect, but because it is mine. But before one can stop being insecure about his or her appearance, one needs to discover self knowledge and realize that one's appearance is not the most important element of a person and that anyone worth a damn will not look at physical features and say "that person looks like a great friend or romantic partner!" or "that person looks like a horrible friend or romantic partner!" 

In short, I stopped feeling insecure because I learned that my mind and morals are far more important, and if I want to change my body I can change my diet and exercise routines. 

[RyanT]

Think there’s definitely an ‘Aristotelian mean’ here,

 

You’ve got that body builder who’s waking in the night with heart palpitations... can’t heathy? Then as Lars pointed out there loads of those guys doing steroids,which always struck me as batshit insane behavior. Injecting themselves with stuff of dubious origins, absolutely no medical supervision, massive side effects just to get that bit bigger...

 

But then there was that skinny guy from Norfolk, turned up to the birth of his first child in a t-shirt that said ‘doggystyle the bitches love me’ and the final weigh-in wearing (presumably his girlfriend’s) dirty odd socks ... Neck tattoo.

 

They did somewhat touch on the underlying issues these guys had but that was pretty much treated as incidental a little soundbite about how hyper-competitive Scott 'probably got it from his dad' or that guy Matt's Mrs, earning a living flashing her norks...which he obviously wasn't very happy about.   

 

Maybe a bit of therapy wouldn't have gone amiss?

[J. D. Stembal]

There was a FDR show is the past year - Estrogen-based Parasites, I believe - where Stefan told the caller that while men almost always fantasize about women who are not wearing clothes, women imagine men wearing a uniform that affects an air of authority (a well-tailored three piece suit, military uniform, etc.). Even though I was in the habit of buying new clothes at least once a year, I never knew that what women imagine in their mind's eye when they wank off about men. Since women are largely focused on the materials in a relationship, and men are on the flesh, it stands to reason that men should be staying out of the gym and women should be there constantly. This is not the case as far as I've seen. There appear to be equal numbers of men and women in gym classes, or men edge out women by a small margin.

 

What this tells me is that men are really pumping iron for themselves (and/or other men as some sort of sexual dominance display). Why overdo exercise if you are just satisfying your own needs? Nutrition is far more important for long-term health, and frequent cardiovascular strain will deplete and damage your body over and relatively short time scale. I used to run two or three times a week, and it didn't do anything for my weight or stamina. It only beats up the body. I bought an old squat rack and weight bench and some barbells and I haven't ever looked back at running. A friend I used to go running with did 2.5 marathons in two years time and completely fucked his knees up, and doesn't run any more. People have this perverted Puritanical notion that health can only be obtained from self-abuse except they use the psychological term "will power". Take it easy, and don't get obsessed about it.

 

Full disclosure: I injured my lower back doing a dead lift like an idiot, so I didn't really have as much exercise wisdom as I thought I did. The point I'm trying to convey is to be careful, and don't treat your body like a dog you want to punish. .

[GasCap]

 

Full disclosure: I injured my lower back doing a dead lift like an idiot, so I didn't really have as much exercise wisdom as I thought I did. The point I'm trying to convey is to be careful, and don't treat your body like a dog you want to punish. .

 

Exercise is generally good, just start slow and take it easy. I think it's better to strive a balance bettween cardio and weight training.

[J. D. Stembal]

Exercise is generally good, just start slow and take it easy. I think it's better to strive a balance bettween cardio and weight training.

 

The notion that exercise is necessary for health is relatively new, and it is very misleading. Back in the 1950s and 60s, Americans spent far less on exercise than they do now, yet we are categorically fatter and unhealthier than American of that era. This would seem to indicate that more exercise correlates with gaining adipose tissue. How can this be if exercise is the key to losing weight thus being healthier?

 

There is a common misconception, even in scientific circles, that obesity is a function of a lack of willpower to exercise or to limit intake of certain foods or total caloric amount. It is commonly called the calories in/calories out hypothesis, and is only partially correct. Obesity isn't caused by laziness or lack of exercise. Lack of the ability to exercise is caused by obesity. If you are obese, you do not have the energy available to do work. The adipose tissue is locked away, and the body cannot access it. This is why fat people are constantly hungry. The body is starving itself when it is obese.

 

This is also why exercise alone, especially running, never works to remedy obesity. If you take a person that is already starving and force them to exercise strenuously, they are going to be ravenously hungry. If you are limiting calories on top of that, it makes their situation more desperate. When a starving person eats less, his body will respond to the energy deficit by becoming more lethargic. The popular "eat right and exercise" message is vague, misleading and dangerous. We have to pinpoint why people are getting fat in the first place.

 

In this, there can be no dispute, scientifically. People can only gain adipose tissue by eating carbohydrates. If you limit sugar intake to 60-100 grams a day at most, and get the bulk of your calories from animal products high in fat, especially saturated fat, and protein, you will be lean even if you never set foot in a gym. This is the diet that humans evolved to eat. Processed grains and sugar only appeared in the Western diet in the past one hundred and fifty years, and was popularized through colonial trade. You can follow the appearance of these two foodstuffs in every culture, and the in the subsequent years, the populations started to put on weight and show signs of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer where previously there was no incidence of such diseases.

 

Knowing all this, why should people waste their time running if they aren't interested in getting faster? It is really amusing to see people running around while listening to music in in public areas. This isn't how they get to work. They ride a bike or get in their car when they want to go somewhere. Look at cops who are supposed to be able to run down criminals on foot. They are some of the fattest people you'll ever see. Nobody runs because they want to get faster unless they are a professional marathoner. There is a collective delusion that running makes you skinny and healthier. It doesn't. If anything it is detrimental to the body to run for extended periods of time. The human body was meant to sprint short distances explosively to catch up with and kill their animal prey after they spent all day tracking it slowly and methodically.

 

The same thing goes for lifting weights. Unless you have a need for being stronger, say, to become more proficient at wrestling or martial arts, lifting weights is totally pointless. I want to be strong so I can defend myself if I ever get ambushed and tackled. A firearm would be useless in that situation. You have to see your assailant coming to have the option of shooting.

 

Reference this video lecture by Gary Taubes:

 

[shirgall]

I do think gals care more about "the wrapping paper on the present" than guys do. A quote I saw on "Real Men Real Style":

 

 Clothes don't make the man, they reveal him.

 

This is somewhat the opposite of the idea that you cannot judge a book by its over but RMRS is helping guys reveal their personality by explaining what their selections signify. They are improving guy's judgment in selecting clothes. In my experience, gals notice this.

 

Even if you are not in perfect shape, you can make a darned good impression by choosing clothes that fit correctly, let alone going further to accentuate what you want and obscure what you don't.

 

For example, when it comes to interviewing for a job, you don't necessarily want to stand out but you want to indicate your respect for the process by dressing for your part. For professional jobs there's practically a uniform for this: dark suit--usually charcoal or black, white shirt, red tie, black shoes that have to be shined; second interview navy suit, matching shirt and tie, brown shoes that have to match the belt.

 

Another example, when a guy goes on a date with a gal, dressing appropriately for the venue goes over a great deal better than being overdressed or underdressed.

 

When I was learning public speaking, and later when I was teaching firearms instructors, the maxim was to dress only "one step" above the intended audience. It's not because you want to be respected it's because you respect the audience.

 

I admit I do the treadmill and some other things to help stay in shape. Limiting food types only goes so far... especially in "cookie season". What I seek is to break a sweat, but not overdo it, for about a half hour a day, alternating muscle groups between days.

[PGP]

As regards general health, more and more I am tending toward diet as the most important factor. I have noticed a consistent trend among amateur sports players here that stop playing in their mid-thirties and end up obese with all-sorts of health-complications in the nest 15-20 years. They have gotten used to a certain high-energy diet and fecklessness with their nutrition while partaking in sport and then the game changes completely and they don't adapt. Other than that, what the paleos advocate of everyday task exercise is a good addition. I do weights and walking/jogging/hiking. When I used to do tree-felling I was fairly ripped and eating enough of anything to keep the weight on and in condition was the problem. Other than that, I think gardening or log-splitting to a sweat can be quite rewarding while serving a dual-function.

As regards women and body-type/form vs clothes, I think the clothes are the main determinant in attraction in general. That has been my experience. It is just a small component though, but an important one.

[luxfelix]

Swimming is my favorite! 

[kahvi]

I may be in the minority here, but I've never particularly fantasized about men in uniform. I've never paid any particular attention to their shoes or watch or what type of car they drive. If anything, the "nicer" those things are, the more wary I am. It's probably due to an unconscious aversion to competition and a bit of insecurity on my part. Men like that typically have women throwing themselves at them, and I'd rather not deal with it. I've always preferred intellectuals and humor, both of them still signs of the ability to provide resources, of course, but both are traits that I feel I equally contribute.

[PatrickC]

I've always preferred intellectuals and humor

 

"For most men, if they can't make a women laugh. They're out of the evolutionary contest. They're just never gonna get laid."

 

Christopher Hitchins - 2008

[kahvi]

"For most men, if they can't make a women laugh. They're out of the evolutionary contest. They're just never gonna get laid."

 

Christopher Hitchins - 2008

For the most part, yes, unfortunately. The ones that aren't that funny almost have to be secure financially.

[PatrickC]

I think mostly men have a highly developed sense of humour compared to women. As Hitchins was also noted to say, 'we already find you attractive, thanks'.

 

It's probably been tempered in recent years, largely because of all the snowflakes that are seemingly easily offended and can actually make a man's life very difficult as a result of his humour or the lack thereof (as a women might find it).

Probably another reason men these days seem drawn to body building and are more body conscious than ever before. It's probably a safer spot for men to develop their attractiveness to women. That and as you suggest, financial security too.