Mindfulness hitting the mainstream? Bad or good?

[BaylorPRSer]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mindfulness-anderson-cooper-60-minutes/

 

Honestly can't work out my position on this topic. On the one hand, I worry meditation and the other things they talk about are encouraging dissociating from your thoughts and feelings, but on the other hand, emptying your thoughts so you can focus on a business meeting or your work seems to be a useful skill. I'm sure this has been brought up here before, but I just watched this video and my immediate reaction was "I wonder what FDR folks would say" haha

[Pepin]

Certainly positive. The aspect of dissociation is there, but since it is paired with self inquiry, it is advantageous. Gaining self knowledge is a very dissociative process of disconnecting from your current self,  looking at: emotions, thoughts, and desires from a outside vantage point, and using reason and evidence to come to conclusions about the content.

 

There is healthy dissociation and unhealthy dissociation, though the term is used mostly in conjunction with unhealthy acts. Heavy thinking, day dreaming, reading books, and driving tend to be dissociative acts, but they certainly aren't unhealthy.

[fractional slacker]

Good topic to bring up. Please excuse me for a mini rant. BTW, this is in no way directed at the OP, Baylor.

 

The article starts off with "Our lives are filled with distractions -- email, Twitter, texting we're constantly connected to technology, rarely alone with just our thoughts."

Utter BS with zero truth value. Far be it from CBS to say anything of substance, let alone Anderson Cooper. Our lives aren't bothered by distractions, they are bothered by: a continuing death threat known as statism, intellectual rubbish, mysticism, culture, collectivism, public schooling, bad parenting, and falsehood. Email, twitter, and texting are SYMPTOMS of avoiding truth. Technology has become a relief valve for anxiety.

If CBS, and Anderson Cooper thinks people are suffering by distractions, they can do something about that. They could start with telling the truth instead of peddling constant mainstream BS propaganda! EOR

[BaylorPRSer]

i actually watched the video and haven't read the article.  i see what you're saying though.

[villagewisdom]

"It's a practice called "mindfulness" and it basically means being aware of your thoughts, physical sensations, and surroundings."

 

 The above quote is from near the top of the article, 2nd paragraph I believe. I'm not sure what you are referring to here in your post where you state "I worry meditation and the other things they talk about are encouraging dissociating from your thoughts and feelings". I don't know where you are getting that idea as it is directly opposite to the definition presented. 

 

It may be a mistake to believe that meditation and mindfulness are dissociating in any way. Perhaps you are thinking of the multitudes of new age groupies that are irresponsible and perhaps somewhat "flaky" people who claim to be meditating and often dissociate. I'm generalizing there. It does not actually follow that meditation is the cause of their dissociation. If they were actually practicing meditation and "mindfulness" as described above, they would be, by definition, aware of their thoughts, physical sensations (feelings) and surroundings and therefore would not be "dissociated". The tool is not the cause -- though it can certainly lead the way. 

 

My experience with being around lots of "new agers" is that the meditation or mindfulness actually brings that shit up in their face and they dissociate because they don't have a support system to face what they really think and feel. They need mediators / therapists as facilitators to get them through it. Otherwise it is just too scary to face alone. And since there are so many of them, they create their own false support group. But they are really just supporting each others' dysfunction. 

 

I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I think what I'm trying to say is that the "mindfulness" is not the problem. It is the lack of support for what "mindfulness" brings up. It often creates a huge co-dependent group. 

[BaylorPRSer]

When you're in the shower next time check and see if you're in the shower.

Anderson Cooper: What do you mean check and see if you're in the shower?

Jon Kabat-Zinn: Well, you may not be. You may be in your first meeting at work. You may have 50 people in the shower with you.

 

I'm not saying this is dissociation.  I am just opening up that my woo-woo bullshit senses are tingling as this seems to be headed in that direction.  However, I am also open to the idea that this is healthy dissociation.  If you're in the shower, but your mind is thinking about your upcoming business meeting, who is to say that the sensations of the shower are more important?  Maybe your mind views it as important to mentally prepare for the meeting.  If that's the case, then wouldn't be redirecting your mind to the sensations of the shower be a form of dissociation?  

Also, I'm curious of your views on taking a class for meditation.  I am interested and have read and viewed videos on it.  Is having a guide worth the money?  Some of them are pretty darn expensive.  Or is this something most people can and should learn on their own.

[villagewisdom]

 

When you're in the shower next time check and see if you're in the shower.

Anderson Cooper: What do you mean check and see if you're in the shower?

Jon Kabat-Zinn: Well, you may not be. You may be in your first meeting at work. You may have 50 people in the shower with you.

 

I'm not saying this is dissociation.  I am just opening up that my woo-woo bullshit senses are tingling as this seems to be headed in that direction.  However, I am also open to the idea that this is healthy dissociation.  If you're in the shower, but your mind is thinking about your upcoming business meeting, who is to say that the sensations of the shower are more important?  Maybe your mind views it as important to mentally prepare for the meeting.  If that's the case, then wouldn't be redirecting your mind to the sensations of the shower be a form of dissociation?  

Also, I'm curious of your views on taking a class for meditation.  I am interested and have read and viewed videos on it.  Is having a guide worth the money?  Some of them are pretty darn expensive.  Or is this something most people can and should learn on their own.

 

 

Not in my experience. The most effective way to prepare for a meeting is to set aside a time to do it exclusively, without distraction. This action is a type of meditation or visualization where I play out the meeting in my mind and look for places to become more prepared for the possibilities, opportunities, actions, etc that might arise in the meeting. 

 

Also, the way you phrased your statement above, your mind would be in control of your choices. Your mind would be separate from the "you" that decides what you will do with your life. Very often it seems to be the case. However, if you have free will (and of course that is still up for debate) and make your own choices, would you not also choose where to direct your thoughts in any given moment? In other words, the mind would never really decide what is best for you. 

 

Or would it . . . ?

[villagewisdom]

One more thought.

 

To answer your question in the title, it would depend on what the "mainstream" does with what they find their "mind(s)full" of.

 

My prediction would be that they would write some "feel good" stories and avoid anything that was uncomfortable. You know. The things they really need to be mindful of . . . like the murder of innocent people in perpetual war and the stealing of money from the "public" and the associated threat of incarceration or death. Or maybe they might have to cover up their dysfunctional treatment of their children. I predict it will end up being lots of "woo woo" and little evolution of the species. 

[villagewisdom]

 

Also, I'm curious of your views on taking a class for meditation.  I am interested and have read and viewed videos on it.  Is having a guide worth the money?  Some of them are pretty darn expensive.  Or is this something most people can and should learn on their own.

 

 

The problem with learning on your own is you don't really know if you get off track. Unfortunately, many of the "guides" are off track also IMO. I've never paid for an individual guide. Earlier in my life I studied and practiced different types for many years within organizations that taught their spiritual bent along with it. I can't really recommend that at all. While it was very useful for me, I was misguided for much of the time. And when I finally "woke up", I found that I was "enlightened" and they were still searching for something and were still all "woo woo" and not really getting it. I don't actually spend a lot of time with practice anymore. Sometimes I do practice but mostly I just "play the instrument and keep it tuned up". I found out there is no place of enlightenment to get to with meditation. That's a false god. 

 

I think it's tough to try and do it on your own. A lot of times you feel like you are just sitting there and nothing is happening. And that's the problem. Because you think something is supposed to be happening, you miss that it is okay for nothing to happen. My recommendation is to learn the basics and give it a go and give it some time. 

 

Like learning how to play an instrument. You learn the notes and you learn how to read the music. Then you practice scales and other exercises depending on the instrument you are trying to master. You might practice tones in a wind instrument or strumming and fingering techniques on a guitar or piano. It doesn't really matter what the method is or the instrument. The real pay off is learning to play the music with some skill. 

 

In the area of meditation, it means you can practice sitting quietly and watching your breath, or sounding a tone, or watching nature, or walking and trying to listen to everything at once. Whatever method you choose, it will bring you a greater understanding of what is important to you. You will find out what part of your personality you are attached to and what sort of repetitive thoughts trip you up in moving toward your goals. You will find out what is beautiful in your life if you look for it and you will be caught up in the negative aspects if that is what you focus on. The skill you will gain is the ability to choose in any given moment. 

 

Pick a method and stick with it for quite a while. For instance, toning or watching your breathing. Choose one and get really good at it. Back to the playing an instrument metaphor, you can't get really good playing the flute if you only play it for a year and then switch to piano. On the other hand, you can play clarinet for a while and easily switch to the flute. And with a little more skill, you can switch to piano or guitar -- but there is kind of a starting over period to get your fingers trained. And so it is with meditation. Learn one way and get good at it. Then you can learn other ways. And the more similar the method, the easier the transition to the new "instrument". 

 

You will likely find that you like one method better than all others. However, you will always be able to play any of the mind methods you have chosen. 

 

And one last thought. It really is about learning how to play the music. There is no end all enlightenment, peace and happiness. There is no ultimate goal or place in awareness that you have to get or attain. You simply learn to play your mind instrument -- you learn it inside and out, backwards and forwards -- and you play. Sometimes it is hard work to play the same scale over and over -- or some thought or behavior you are trying to develop seems as if it will always be awkward. And then the next thing you know, you are out there and a situation comes up and you just dance right through it in peace because you have practiced the steps. I think I switched metaphors there. But dancing is the same. There is no end goal that you are trying to reach. You are simply doing the movements and enjoying the activity. Same-same with music and meditation. 

 

Well I really went off there didn't I? Hope that wasn't too "woo woo" and l'll answer any questions you have. Feel free to PM me.