My girlfriend is pregnant. Should I marry her?

[Daniel Unplugged]

A bit of background first. We have been together for 3 years and are very happy together. I am planning to breed lots of little anarchists with her (she is a little bit old (35), so 1 or 2 might be the maximum. 2 miscarriages preceded this scan that showed a heartbeat). She is Asian (a genuine Vietnamese boat person who came to Australia when she was 2). She doesn't have any accent at all but is still a bit FOBby at times. Lol. She definitely wants a ring.

 

A few reasons why I don't like marriage:

 

I thing the idea of a relationship contract is very odd indeed. I do not have contracts with any of my friends. We are friends only so long as we both wish it to be. Obviously with regards to my girlfriend, since children will be involved, things are not so simple. It is necessary that I, as per the arrangement with her, will provide resources to her and the children so that she may focus her efforts on caring for them, but this will happen regardless of contract. She would however, appreciate the perceived security that comes with marriage, which brings me to my next point; is my word not good enough? If she wants the arrangement in writing, that is somewhat concerning.

 

Finally, a marriage contract is in large part, a bullshit contract. With the possible exception of money matters, either I or her, may cancel the contract as we see fit. Neither the government, nor my family or friends will enforce that contract, not to mention that promising to exhibit love for her for the entirety of my life is disingenuous. I cannot sincerely promise to experience a particular emotion 30 years in the future, however much I would like it to be true.

 

In Asian culture marriage is very important, her parents give her a hard time just for living with me, let alone if we have children. In my culture (white Australian) things are less strict, not that given the way I am these days, either of my parents would even have the balls to tell me how to live my life (my relationship with my parents is very strained due to their total lack of empathy for me with regards to the punishment they routinely inflicted on me when I was small and could not defend myself. They have zero power to influence my behavior now).

 

So, I ask the FDR community, should I marry her?

 

And yes, it is very difficult being my partner. Her tolerance towards me and my rants is impressive. Maybe I should just give her whatever she wants

[Libertus]

"Should I marry her", in a sense of a moral obligation, no, you don't have a moral obligation to marry her. You do have an obligation to be a responsible parent, though.
"Should I marry her", in a sense of "do I really want this?" Only you can know. But ask yourself this: "What's in it for me?" Why would you want to get married?

If you're only getting married because you want to avoid trouble with your gf and her family: I'd say, forget it, you're setting yourself up for much greater trouble down the line. You don't get married to trouble in order to avoid trouble. It doesn't make sense.

I hope that helps.

Edit: why are you thinking about this now, after you have tried to get her pregnant? It seems like, and this is just my intuition, that you have thought about this before and went "no way".

[Daniel Unplugged]

I am less opposed to it than I used to be. My main concern is along the lines of what's the point of it? We have a big party (which I like), where I am (second to her) the centre of attention (which I don't like), say some really sweet things to each other, sign some paperwork and then get the governments green stamp of approval on our relationship (which (not really) makes me want to vomit), then go on with our lives exactly the same way we would have if we had never done any of that. I can't think of a significant practical reason to do it, other than to satisfy other people's cultural (irrational) preferences. Yes it will make her and her parents happy. Maybe that's enough of a reason. I'm not sure.

 

I'm mostly wondering if I missed something about marriage. Perhaps some happily married people can tell me how marriage has made their lives better and what I am overlooking.

[Blackfish64]

Does she have an ex?  If so, do they have a child or children between them?  If so, expect to pay out for them, too.  Yes, the ex included. 

 

You are a bank account to the family already.   A cash register.  They want the money.  All of it.  Everything you've got.  This is why they want the marriage, too.  Is she a citizen?  Is she hounding you about citizenship?  With the Asians, the money is pooled.  Everything everybody makes is expected to go into the kitty, and usually a big mama controls all of it and runs the show.  The most money goes to, usually, a golden child.  This is just the way it is.  This is the culture.  There are exceptions, but not many.  So, if your partner is not controlling your money already, get control of it right now.  Get tight control of it.  Every penny.  If she asks you for anything, find out exactly what the money is for, and who will be getting it.  Then make a rational decision based on the answers she gives you.  If you give the money, demand receipts.  

 

You will get no sympathy for the abuse you suffer or that you have suffered or that you will suffer.  Asians simply do not understand this.  They see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.  It's "bad luck" to talk about your bad past.   Give up the past and move on.  Don't talk about it anymore.  It's the only way.  This, too, is merely a part of the culture.  Get used to it.  These are people who watch with indifference children who have fallen on the ground, flat on their faces, and get hurt, and scream for help.  They don't move a muscle to help them.  These are people who watch with indifference as animals, hit by cars, and struggling along on broken limbs, are completely ignored.  These are people who don't get out of the way for ambulances who clearly have their lights on and their sirens screaming.   

 

The differences between the Western and Asian cultures are so radically different as to be almost completely incompatible. 

 

Read everything you can.  Go visit the country and meet everyone and find out what is going on.  Don't trust anyone and leave anything to chance.  Choose carefully. 

[MrCapitalism]

Was this an intentional pregnancy on your part?

[ancapzeebo]

Three party contract with the state? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope. 

[bootoo]

Makes things much easier if you are married in dealing with the state and companies when it comes to insurance and taxes

 

however, i dont see any value in the state or a religion validating my commitment to my woman, and the wife agrees

[GasCap]

I would say finance is a big thing in most cultures. But it is also important to think about how you will raise your kids such as home school, peaceful parenting, etc.... If you guys are in line with how to raise your kids you will have a happier life after marriage. Most Asians reject home school and the thought of anarchy, I am not sure what your GF thinks of that and also what her parents thinks of these ideas. it's worth discussing with them before further actions.

[J. D. Stembal]

Negative on marriage.

 

I'm also very concerned that she comes from a conservative Vietnamese, and most likely, a very religious background. Here in the West, we don't consider Buddhism to be very constrictive (religion lite), but the amount of nonsensical brainwashing involved is at least as damaging as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, if not more so. To top this off, ancestor worship is not optional, so if it turns out that her family is an abusive influence, she would rather die than de-FOO.

 

I know he's been downvoted a lot recently, but make sure you read Blackfish's reply regarding Asian culture. He seems to have many years of experience with it.

 

I dated and lived with a Thai woman living in the States using phony documents for about a year. The whole time she was pressuring me for marriage or kids, for obvious reasons, and her behavior was erratic so it got to the point where I just didn't trust her, and would not sleep with her (she had already admitted to being an illegal immigrant). One day, she said she had to go on a road trip to visit a family member and disappeared. The next time I heard from her was about six months later when she had come back to get her belongings. She was pregnant and had a new American husband in tow. The woman was a genuine psychopath, but she was living in the states with purpose of sending money back to her parents who did not work and were the sole care takers of her nephew. It could have been a lie of all I know, but like Blackfish said, do your research, ask questions, and go out and visit her family on a whim to see if everything is on the level.

 

I was so relieved that I dodged that bullet. Hopefully, no one is aiming their sights at you.

[yagami]

I think now that you are having a child you have to think about what is best for the child. It's no longer just about what is good for you anymore. Even if she turns out not to be the one for you you are responsible for giving the child the best possible environment. If she thinks marriage is something that the government gives you then I dont know how much of an anarchist she is. If she does realize that marriage is just a promise and still insist on a government sanctioned marriage without any good reason then you have reason to question her motives. If she does not feel secure in the relationship and wants to get married I dont think that's a good sign for future happiness. I feel like she is looking for artificial happiness in the piece of paper. Now that she is pregnant it's no longer an option whether or not you go to therapy for your childhood issues. If you haven't worked out as much as you can then you need to start as soon as you read this. But just keep in mind where your focus needs to be and where her focus needs to be as well. If her motive for getting married isn't centered around the well being of the child then you need to have a talk with her and work that out.

[Daniel Unplugged]

Was this an intentional pregnancy on your part?

Yes

[GasCap]

this should of been a question carefully examined before the 3 pregnancies including this one. why are you just asking your self now?

it should have been

 

should I marry her? then should we have kids?

 

not

 

Should we have kids? then should I marry her?

[Daniel Unplugged]

I would say finance is a big thing in most cultures. But it is also important to think about how you will raise your kids such as home school, peaceful parenting, etc.... If you guys are in line with how to raise your kids you will have a happier life after marriage. Most Asians reject home school and the thought of anarchy, I am not sure what your GF thinks of that and also what her parents thinks of these ideas. it's worth discussing with them before further actions.

Peaceful parenting is already locked in. She is open to home schooling, but insists I let the child choose, which was always going to be the case anyway.

[Daniel Unplugged]

You are a bank account to the family already. A cash register. They want the money. All of it. Everything you've got. This is why they want the marriage, too. Is she a citizen? Is she hounding you about citizenship?

 

She is already a citizen, she was only 2 when she came over.

 

She is not a blood sucking parasite either. Yes, some women are, but you are overgeneralizing there. She works full time, always has, and is successful in her own right. Yes, she is now going to be dependent on my income alone, but that was always the plan.

 

One of the things I always looked for in a woman is financial independence, if a woman doesn't need my money, then she won't view me as a cash register. It also ensures that her motivation for being with me is sound.

 

I just finished reading the rest of your post. You are being very racist. Nothing more to say to you.

this should of been a question carefully examined before the 3 pregnancies including this one. why are you just asking your self now?

it should have been

 

should I marry her? then should we have kids?

 

not

 

Should we have kids? then should I marry her?

I know it seems backwards, but i am not concerned about it. I have thought about it before. Like a said I don't consider marriage particularly important one way or the other. If we were to get married, now would seem to be the appropriote time, which I also knew beforehand. Hence, it is decision time and why I am now seeking advice.

 

I have wanted kids for a while. I have never 'wanted' marriage, it is of secondary importance to me.

[MrCapitalism]

So what are her arguments for getting married?

[Blackfish64]

I didn't mean to imply she's a bloodsucking parasite.  Nothing of the kind.  I don't mean to imply that there is something wrong with them wanting all of your money.  What I am saying is that is how they do things in their culture.  

 

I am pretty far from racist.  My wife is Thai/Chinese.  Speaks four languages, writes three; English, Cantonese, French, and Thai.  Been married to her for over thirteen years now.  Lived here in Asia off and on for all of that time.  Had many Asian girlfriends, from Thailand, China, Cambodia, Vietnam.  Speak some of the language.  This is how the culture works.  This is how they do things.   There is nothing wrong with it.  There is nothing malicious about it, but to a Westerner with no experience in these matters, it might seem malicious.  It isn't.  It's just the way it is.   

 

Sounds like your wife is Westernized.  If she's been living in a Western culture since she was two, she is hardly "Vietnamese" any longer, except by "blood", whatever that's supposed to mean.  To my mind, "blood" and "race" means nothing, absolutely nothing.  There is only one race: the human race.  

 

And I'll say it again, from vast experience, the differences between Eastern and Western cultures are so vastly different as to be almost completely incompatible.  I often tell people from East and West I meet, that if they are getting together to make a relationship they should plan on doing things one way or the other, the Eastern way or the Western way.    

 

But sounds like you don't have any of these problems to begin with.  Wife is Western.  Nothing to it.  You are of the same mind already, sounds like.  You did not make this clear in the outset of your post.  

 

Best of everything to you.  

[Daniel Unplugged]

So what are her arguments for getting married?

Only 2 'arguments' that I can recall: It would get her parents off her back, and also we would also share the same name. Should the kids go to school it would be somewhat simpler, and it may also benefit them by the percieved social status of being an 'official' family. She has said other things as well, but I don't consider them arguements.

[MrCapitalism]

Out of your entire family, it sounds like the people who want the marriage the most are her parents. Is that a fair assessment, and has this pressure increased since they found out she was pregnant (if they know)?

 

EDIT: My posts have been simple questions only so I thought I'd add some content to this one.

It's almost 2015.

 

There's no reason you shouldn't get a paternity test before you agree to be named as the father. Please get one even though you know with absolute certainty what the result will be. It's terribly important and needs to be a widespread social practice.

[Daniel Unplugged]

Well, her and her parents. Her parents only apply pressure to her. I'm not even sure pressure is the right word. I think it is more disapproval. They don't speak much english, so we don't talk much. They do seem to like me though. Nobody knows about the pregnancy yet. We just found out.

 

I hear what you say, but I won't be getting a paternity test. I trust her enough for that. There are no indications that she ia playing around.

[st434u]

 

There is only one race: the human race.  

 

 

I cringe whenever I hear this phrase on the media or movies. Humanity is not a race, it is a species.

 

Within the human species, there are many races (or if you prefer the term, subspecies) which have evolved differences as a result of living in different environments and with significant genetic isolation over thousands of generations.

[Libertarian Prepper]

Marriage will not be a contract between you and your wife, it will be a contract between you, the state, and your wife. This is crucially important: once you sign a marriage contract with the state, both the husband and wife now gain the ability to use the guns of government to get their way (though predominantly the beneficiaries of resorting to government violence in marriage are women).

 

If the only reason for submitting yourself to such an arrangement is that she doesn't want to inconvenience her parents (and have a shared name, although that reason seems almost entirely trivial), then I would think very seriously about this. If she's not willing to inconvenience her parents over a contract with the state, is she going to be willing to inconvenience them even more once your kid is born and you find out that her parents are abusive? What's her ACE score? What was her childhood like? Do you want her parents in your kid's life? I get the feeling that if her parents were peaceful and open-minded, they wouldn't be pressuring her like this.

[tasmlab]

I'd say get married if she wants it.  It's fun, you get to have a big cocktail party. 

 

I've been married and think it is delightful.

 

You can think of it as a relationship contract, but IMO the bigger part is the declaration to her and your families/friends that are committed to being around permanently.  This is important in child rearing.

 

We saved $30,000 on our taxes by filing jointly.  My accountant always shows us both ways of filing.  That would be roughly $400,000 of free money over the years we've been married*, and maybe about a million over the course of my career.

 

With kids coming in the mix, being married will be create pretty ironclad protection to ensure you maintain custody in the case of her death in a probate process.

 

And you get to have the same last name as your children.

 

I don't find that it is a contract with the state a reason to reject marriage, any more than feeling bad about paying taxes or sending a birthday card in the mail.  The government is our state of nature.

 

 

(* Assuming that the trend of a rising salary continues)

[Blackfish64]

My wife couldn't wait to get hitched.  I met her when I lived in Las Vegas.  She came here from Thailand and kept hounding me about getting married (wanted citizenship and to start working toward her son's citizenship immediately afterward).  I was in no hurry.  I could've cared less.).  I made it very clear to her that more children was out of the question anyway, so why all the fuss about getting married?  She persisted.

 

Finally, one day, on a rare day off we had together, I told her I had to go to the government center to get some stuff done and that she should come along with me.  She acquiesced.  Before she knew what was happening, we were standing in line to get the marriage license.  This made her very happy and surprised, and we got the job done and got the license. 

 

As we were walking out with the license in our hand, she kept asking what we needed to do next.  I told her there was any number of ways we could proceed, we could do this and we could do that, and blah, blah, blah.  As we were discussing the matter, we passed by a woman sitting on a bench outside the building, who overheard us and jumped in, "Yes, you could do any one of those things, among others, or you could just walk across the street to the Justice of the Peace right now and he will hook you up for a fee.  It's that building right there on the corner.  You kids knock yourselves out." 

 

"Well, thank you very much for the tip!"

 

"You're welcome!"

 

At that, we walked over to the JOP and we were officially hitched in less than an hour.  Been hitched for thirteen years now.

 

[Daniel Unplugged]

I'd say get married if she wants it.  It's fun, you get to have a big cocktail party. 

 

I've been married and think it is delightful.

 

You can think of it as a relationship contract, but IMO the bigger part is the declaration to her and your families/friends that are committed to being around permanently.  This is important in child rearing.

 

We saved $30,000 on our taxes by filing jointly.  My accountant always shows us both ways of filing.  That would be roughly $400,000 of free money over the years we've been married*, and maybe about a million over the course of my career.

 

With kids coming in the mix, being married will be create pretty ironclad protection to ensure you maintain custody in the case of her death in a probate process.

 

And you get to have the same last name as your children.

 

I don't find that it is a contract with the state a reason to reject marriage, any more than feeling bad about paying taxes or sending a birthday card in the mail.  The government is our state of nature.

 

 

(* Assuming that the trend of a rising salary continues)

Thanks tasmlab, just the info I was looking for.

[Jeremi]

I am less opposed to it than I used to be. My main concern is along the lines of what's the point of it? We have a big party (which I like), where I am (second to her) the centre of attention (which I don't like), say some really sweet things to each other, sign some paperwork and then get the governments green stamp of approval on our relationship (which (not really) makes me want to vomit), then go on with our lives exactly the same way we would have if we had never done any of that. I can't think of a significant practical reason to do it, other than to satisfy other people's cultural (irrational) preferences. Yes it will make her and her parents happy. Maybe that's enough of a reason. I'm not sure.

 

I'm mostly wondering if I missed something about marriage. Perhaps some happily married people can tell me how marriage has made their lives better and what I am overlooking.

Why are you equating a wedding with marriage? Just go to a courthouse and sign the form. If she wants the wedding then that's a separate issue.

[shirgall]

Why are you equating a wedding with marriage? Just go to a courthouse and sign the form. If she wants the wedding then that's a separate issue.

 

Agreed, everyone is free to throw a party for whatever reason they want. I got married on a beach in Mexico. I had a "reception" in a restaurant on the Columbia River in Portland, OR.

[Blackfish64]

I agree with ditching the wedding altogether. Big expense. Big pain. Why throw a party so others can come and get sauced at your expense? I don't even get sauced myself, why should I pick up someone else's tab?

 

We rented ourselves a cabin in the mountains in the winter following our spring wedding down at the JOP.

 

When my daughter got married, they were planning a big shin-dig, but I stepped in to the rescue. I suggested they get a couple of witnesses, get the JOP to do the job, then sneak off for a little vacation together, if they cared to, and be done with it. They did just that. Saved all their cash and bought a second house.Thanked me later. Smartest thing they ever did.

[Tweety]

Only 2 'arguments' that I can recall: It would get her parents off her back, and also we would also share the same name. Should the kids go to school it would be somewhat simpler, and it may also benefit them by the percieved social status of being an 'official' family. She has said other things as well, but I don't consider them arguements.

 

Why would you consider these arguments "valid" if her other arguments were not arguments at all? Can you not get her parents "of her back" otherwise? Why is it important to share the same name? Are you not a unit connected by biology ("official" family) otherwise?

To me it seems that the common nominator in her arguments is social conformity and social pressure. 

 

You also do not need marriage to declare your dedication to her, if indeed you are and want to dedicate yourself to her. I think you have a good argument in saying that you do not know what your emotions will be in 30-years time.

You do not need marriage to declare that you will provide for the child/children.

 

I think any legal benefits one might get from marriage, you might be able to organise otherwise as well. Probably depends on the country though, and I am by no means an expert on Australian law.

 

"Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a socially or ritually recognized union or legal contract between spouses that establishes rights and obligations between them, between them and their children, and between them and their in-laws."

 How can the sum of so many irrational concepts be anything but irrational?