J. D. Stembal Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 This is the first year that I am not celebrating Christmas. I refused two dinner party invitations. I told my parents not to send me anything for Christmas, but they did anyway. I have not purchased any gifts. Am I justified in not wanting to take part in a phony religious festival, or am I just being a Grinch? Invoking this Seuss character is just another means to call non-Christians and Atheists assholes during the holidays. Years ago, I wished a co-worker a Merry Christmas, and she happened to be Jewish, and responded to me as if I insulted her. Now I am beginning to understand the acrimony behind her response. I've been polite with people so far, saying,"No thanks, I no longer celebrate holidays." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 You avoided all the secular parts of Christmas with your actions, so, yeah, you are being a Grinch. You can enjoy the party in the spirit it was intended... to plea to the sky ghosts to being spring and summer and food and warmth and access to eggs! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Were the dinner party invitations from former abusers? Or would they have put you in the company of former abusers? If not, I wouldn't have passed it up just because the motivation was religious, seasonal, or just because the calendar said to. For many years now, my stepmother, who loves to shop (for others) gets me stuff for my birthday and xmas even though I've asked her not to. I've been thinking more and more as time goes on about how this kind of makes me uncomfortable. She's basically telling me that her desires trump my own with regards to me. I haven't confronted her about it though because it's relatively harmless. I've actually been inspired this year by how low a percentage of people I interact with are bothering to say Merry Xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractional slacker Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 As an atheist, my take is slightly different. The Christmas package if you will, to me, has value even if it is primarily based on superstition. Christmas is about connection. The trappings of shopping, gift exchange, etc, can be embraced or avoided and yet one can still enjoy the Christmas season, IMO. I know Christmas is based on superstition. I know it's based on tradition. Those are two things atheism and philosophy oppose, yet recognizing this (a certain) time of year to increase the spread of joy and strive to be kinder and more considerate is worth having to endure silliness and superstition that comes along with the whole package. Merry Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagami Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I agree with shirgall here. You can receive gifts eat food and enjoy yourself without worshiping Jesus. Besides I dont know about your family but there isn't too much talk about Jesus and more talk about this cool new ipad I just got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anuojat Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 The amounth of stuff in christmas that is not religious these days is... pretty huge. Currently enjoying christmas and being happily atheist. And everything secular about chritmas nowdays is, technically, pagan in origin but totally harmless and sometimes even (in good company and spirit) joyful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdc3rd Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I'll vote for grinch, too. No one is attacking you by wishing you "Merry Christmas," by sending you a gift, or by inviting you for dinner. You should be happy people are willing to do those things for you and enjoy your time with family and friends. Just because you disagree with someone about religion doesn't mean that you need to cut them out of your life. Do you also give people a hard time about Haloween? Thanksgiving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-William Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Don't celebrate holidays you don't like. I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember and always celebrated Christmas. To me it's always been about family Santa and presents. To me it sounds like you need some space from things that have negative associations for you. I think that's fine and people should respect your wishes if they want to have a relationship with you. The fact your parents sent presents contrary to your request they not send presents sounds to me like they wish to pretend they have a relationship with you without bothering to explore who you are as a person and being curious about what is changing for you. As for acquaintances wishing you merry Christmas and that sort of thing... I wouldn't sweat the small stuff, they don't know you that well and it doesn't really matter to your relationship with them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OinkQuack Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 That must be tough, EndTheUsurpation. It's probably normal that any conscious change of behaviour will feel awkward to start with. Perhaps it's a case of don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Winter celebrations are older than most religions and are clearly of practical and social utility. Winter is a season when isolation, depression and suicide skyrocket; whether it's a culturally learned behaviour, or not, the end of the year seems to bring reflections on one's achievements and mortality, perhaps because the nature all around us appears desolate and dying. brightness, warmth and social gatherings seems to be an antidote for this. The fact that something like Christmas, albeit on slightly different days and with different traditions, happens all over the world seems to support the idea that it's more about the psychosocial value than of particular supernatural observances. I have always been an Atheist, but I love Christmas trees, lights, decorations and presents; it is still magical for me to sit in a room with the main lights off, even better with a real fire and snow outside. I am a sucker for all the Dickensian clichés and I try not to pour too much cynicism on these rather childish pleasures. I would liken your situation to abstaining from alcohol, as I did many years ago. I have not banned it from my life, I still drink, but I don't accept invitations from those who require copious amounts of alcohol to be honest and express themselves, if you can call the clumsy, loved-up monologues of the drunk honesty. Those who would not accept a coffee at a café as an alternative to a bar I saw as more in need of alcohol than my company. So, perhaps you could apply the same reasoning to Christmas, with those requiring Christmas celebrations as an exclusively religious event as the alcoholics (somewhat offensive, but hey) and those who merely wish to celebrate friendship and Christmas as a convenient opportunity to do so as the more favourable choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 When I saw the large red and green lettering and the "merry christmas and happy holidays" banner at the top of this FDR page, I thought, "huh, how about that? I would have expected 'happy holidays' but not so much the 'merry christmas' part. Still, I take it for what it is and enjoy the festivities and company of good people. I usually just say "happy holidays' to people, but its all good, not a lot of coercion going on with that kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdc3rd Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Just saw this article and it reminded me of this topic: http://nypost.com/2014/12/25/plane-passenger-tossed-after-angry-reaction-to-merry-christmas/ Passenger tossed after flipping out over staff’s ‘Merry Christmas’By Michael Liss, Daniel Prendergast and Philip Messing December 25, 2014 | 3:53am Modal Trigger Bah, humbug! A passenger was tossed off a plane at La Guardia Airport on Tuesday after flipping out — because airline workers wished him a merry Christmas. The man was waiting to board American Airlines Flight 1140 to Dallas when a cheerful gate agent began welcoming everyone with the Yuletide greeting while checking boarding passes. The grumpy passenger, who appeared to be traveling alone, barked at the woman, “You shouldn’t say that because not everyone celebrates Christmas.” The agent replied, “Well, what should I say then?” “Don’t say, ‘Merry Christmas!’ ” the man shouted before brushing past her. Once on the plane, he was warmly greeted by a flight attendant who also wished him a “merry Christmas.” That was the last straw. “Don’t say, ‘Merry Christmas!’ ” the man raged before lecturing the attendants and the pilot about their faux pas. The crew tried to calm the unidentified man, but he refused to back down and continued hectoring them. He was escorted off the plane as other fliers burst into cheers and applause. American Airlines did not return a request for comment. Isn't it just a lot easier to not be a dick about people saying "Merry Christmas?" It takes a hell of a lot more energy to make someone feel bad about saying it than it does to just smile and nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Remember the Saturnalian tradition is one of reversals: a holiday from work and school, slaves became masters and masters became slaves, gambling was permitted when it is normally banned, people wear clothes they'd not otherwise wear, gifts and gag gifts were given (sometimes with attached poetry, a hallmark of future traditions), and a "Lord of Misrule" (King of Saturnalia) was selected by ballot to be in charge of the party... So, bittersweetly, happy family gatherings are another possible "reversal" of Saturnalia that carries forward, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Just to add, if you're not going to celebrate Christmas, which calendar do you plan on using? The year 2015 is coming up, right? 2015 years since what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 I'll vote for grinch, too. No one is attacking you by wishing you "Merry Christmas," by sending you a gift, or by inviting you for dinner. You should be happy people are willing to do those things for you and enjoy your time with family and friends. Just because you disagree with someone about religion doesn't mean that you need to cut them out of your life. Do you also give people a hard time about Haloween? Thanksgiving? How am I giving people a hard time? Can you explain your reasoning? I haven't celebrated Thanksgiving for a long time. I have a lot of familial baggage associated with Thanksgiving, because it meant I had to see my mother's sister's family, who are stern, strict, and religious. I stopped handing out candy for Halloween a few years back because of its health implications, and role in the accelerating rate of obesity. Very few children are allowed to participate in Trick or Treating by their parents. It's mostly an excuse for teenagers to sneak off to smoke dope while gorging on candy. I'm not sure how stores keep selling candy for Halloween. It seems like people buy at least two or three bags out of social guilt, and then end up fighting the tug of war battle to decide whether to throw it out or eat it. Just to add, if you're not going to celebrate Christmas, which calendar do you plan on using? The year 2015 is coming up, right? 2015 years since what? I'm not sure if you are being serious or simply poking fun. Are you suggesting that I won't know what day of the week my birthday (or any other day) falls on if I don't celebrate the supposed birthday of a Jewish political activist from two thousand years ago? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Future Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I'm definitely a grinch, Christmas is repulsive to me in most respects. I see religion, tradition, obliged gift giving, obliged kindness, mindless zombies calling out "merry christmas", lies to children, threats to children (better be good, or else...), christmas songs irritate me and seem to get worse every year. Business takes advantage of the mass hysteria and laughs all the way to the bank. I'm not a mean grinch though, if someone wishes me a merry christmas I'll be like, "yeah great buddy" and give them a thumbs up. But is it not more virtuous to be kind because that is who you are? Or to give a gift because you really do care, instead of a calendar prompt? I find that my random gifts and acts of kindness are much more appreciated. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasmlab Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd say skip the midnight mass and go double on the egg nog. My three young children would probably murder me in my bed if we skipped Christmas. I am trying to skip parades though on all of the USA's military holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I am trying to skip parades though on all of the USA's military holidays. Actually, I'm considering setting up my truck as an Area 51 Alien Autopsy for Independence Day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahvi Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I don't think you're being a Grinch for not celebrating Christmas. The holiday means different things to different people and I know a few Christians that only celebrate it out of obligation. I don't think you should feel obligated to do anything you don't want to do. On the other hand, (I know many here will take exception to this ) I think you should give your family a break. At least for the first year or so, to give them time to adjust to your new stance. I guess that also depends on how much you've talked to them about it already. I've been an atheist for 14 years now, but have always enjoyed Christmas. But then, my family has always mainly just celebrated the secular aspects of it. We never brought Jesus into it, other than displaying a decorative nativity scene under the tree. Congratulations on your new found atheism, by the way. I remember when I first deconverted. The weight on my shoulders was suddenly lifted, I had no more fear of hell, I was able to consider all sorts of other philosophical views without feeling guilt. I still feel it was one of the best things to happen in my life. It turned my life around for the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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