FriendlyHacker Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Religions deserve no respect, political views deserve no respect, opinions deserve no respect, ideas not based in reality are bullshit. Ideas based on reality also deserve no respect. The truth needs not to be respected because ignoring the truth is insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Your argument is right approximately 98% of the time. It's wrong when someone has an opinion that doesn't reflect reality, but he or she isn't either aggressively imposing that belief on others, nor trying to get someone else to pay the cost of his/her mistakes. It's hard to imagine a Christian who never-at-all wants other people to be a Christian, nor wants anyone else to pay any money for the mistakes of his/her Christian beliefs. But if such a Christian existed, I'd respect their Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Respect is an outward behavior of appreciation for virtue. The virtuous should never demand nor expect respect, and not confuse it with gratitude. I can show respect for views, opinions, and ideas that came about by following virtuous processes. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I can even show respect for people who are religious, but nonetheless are doing virtuous things despite avowing such a belief. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as I'm honest with myself about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm not sure if I follow. Are you writing about people who claim that critics opposing them on logical grounds are being disrespectful toward their beliefs or ideas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prolix Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Religions deserve no respect, political views deserve no respect, opinions deserve no respect, ideas not based in reality are bullshit. Ideas based on reality also deserve no respect. The truth needs not to be respected because ignoring the truth is insanity. I got no respect for this post then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGP Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The truth needs not to be respected because paying attention to the truth is sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriendlyHacker Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm saying that the very concept of respect is bullshit when it comes to ideas, respecting people makes sense but ideas deserve absolutelly no respect. Ideas either work or don't, and even if they do work having respect for them is useless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prolix Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm saying that the very concept of respect is bullshit when it comes to ideas, respecting people makes sense but ideas deserve absolutelly no respect. Ideas either work or don't, and even if they do work having respect for them is useless. If you are even checking to see if an idea is valid or not then you are showing it "respect". Maybe it just comes down to semantics then. But if you are disrespecting valid ideas and empirical based arguments then you are doing something that is not useful. I, personally, from what I know about the "idea" or concept of respect, find it very useful in a wide variety of situations. I guess it comes down to, "what do you mean by respect". What does "respect" look like to you? How does it manifest? Certainly one could use respect to support invalid ideas, IE; "you should respect the xyz authority regardless of the validity of their ideas". Certainly. But also simply recognizing validity and virtue can fall under the umbrella of respect. so, given the broad definition of the word it is much like any tool or state of consciousness, it can be both useful and harmful. You can use a fork to eat, or you can use it to jab your eyes out. These are just my ideas on the topic, you may say that you give them no respect. But if you read them and consider these ideas, you have given them a certain level of respect. If you choose to respond to them, then you have added to that level of respect. Even if it is minimal... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriendlyHacker Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 If you are even checking to see if an idea is valid or not then you are showing it "respect". Maybe it just comes down to semantics then. But if you are disrespecting valid ideas and empirical based arguments then you are doing something that is not useful. I, personally, from what I know about the "idea" or concept of respect, find it very useful in a wide variety of situations. I guess it comes down to, "what do you mean by respect". What does "respect" look like to you? How does it manifest? Certainly one could use respect to support invalid ideas, IE; "you should respect the xyz authority regardless of the validity of their ideas". Certainly. But also simply recognizing validity and virtue can fall under the umbrella of respect. so, given the broad definition of the word it is much like any tool or state of consciousness, it can be both useful and harmful. You can use a fork to eat, or you can use it to jab your eyes out. These are just my ideas on the topic, you may say that you give them no respect. But if you read them and consider these ideas, you have given them a certain level of respect. If you choose to respond to them, then you have added to that level of respect. Even if it is minimal... Respect means that ideas are protected from skepticism in the manner you mention about respecting authority, if you question the idea of God many will feel personally offended by it, because they respect the idea so much that they will not allow it to be challenged, what I'm saying is that if an idea cannot be challenged it speaks volumes about how much it can stand on its own. This also happens in science, when some physicists say that entropy cannot be challenged, or when a biologist says that whoever believes Lamarck was right must be an idiot. Though I can think on a few ways to violate entropy and Lamarck's idea that the parent's environment can affect the offspring has been shown to be valid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prolix Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Respect means that ideas are protected from skepticism in the manner you mention about respecting authority It can mean that. but that is not the totality of the definition and the practical use of the word. You got a case of "baby out with the bathwater" here guy... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Respect means that ideas are protected from skepticism in the manner you mention about respecting authority, if you question the idea of God many will feel personally offended by it, because they respect the idea so much that they will not allow it to be challenged, what I'm saying is that if an idea cannot be challenged it speaks volumes about how much it can stand on its own. This also happens in science, when some physicists say that entropy cannot be challenged, or when a biologist says that whoever believes Lamarck was right must be an idiot. Though I can think on a few ways to violate entropy and Lamarck's idea that the parent's environment can affect the offspring has been shown to be valid. Ah, I think see the difference. You are saying when someone demands respect they want you to defer to their authority. I was saying that when I respect something I have a bias towards some person or thing, but I can still challenge them or it if I have evidence that they are wrong. An important difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I'm saying that the very concept of respect is bullshit when it comes to ideas, respecting people makes sense but ideas deserve absolutelly no respect. Ideas either work or don't, and even if they do work having respect for them is useless. You may find this statement helpful. "Narcissists love talking about their beliefs but hate talking about their actions. This is because one's actions are always about everyone else, but one's beliefs are always all about them." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prolix Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Respect actually, etymologically speaking, means to re look at, or to look at again. Its most similar synonym is recognize. So if you are revisiting an idea, you are respecting it. Certainly there is a portion of the word that means to "not judge" or to not scrutinize. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. That particular usage has not totallty eclipsed the broader, and I'd argue useful, meaning of the word. Yes, abusive people will utilize a perversion of "respect" to get you to not re-look-at their claims. but theat is literally the exact opposite of the correct usage of the word. Which is what abusers do, they pervert otherwise good things. Guidance for children becomes punishment. Respect becomes obedience, sex becomes rape. but you wouldn't say that all sex is rape and thus sex is useless. Or all parenting is punishment thus having kids is useless. Is this making any kind of sense to anyone? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriendlyHacker Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, it does make sense MMX2010 and prolix. You are right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endostate Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Religions deserve no respect, political views deserve no respect, opinions deserve no respect, ideas not based in reality are bullshit. But isn't respect subjective? That's like saying, "This chocolate ice cream doesn't deserve to be tasty." Ideas based on reality also deserve no respect. The truth needs not to be respected because ignoring the truth is insanity. Property rights and fiction are examples of ideas not based in reality - are they bullshit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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