Young boys asked to slap a girl - they refuse

[hannahbanana]

Just another sign that no, violence against women is NOT normalized within the culture.

http://abc7chicago.com/society/video-young-boys-asked-to-slap-little-girl-in-social-experiment/462246/

[Kevin Beal]

Just another sign that no, violence against women is NOT normalized within the culture.

http://abc7chicago.com/society/video-young-boys-asked-to-slap-little-girl-in-social-experiment/462246/

Ironically, this is used as further evidence that violence against women is in fact normalized, since if these young boys have absolutely no desire to hit a girl, but some grown men (actual numbers vary) do hit women, therefore "men" are taught this behavior by the culture.

 

This is, of course, a claim that has no null hypothesis. Whether or not the boys hit the girl, both would lead to the same conclusion for feminists.

[Psychophant]

The Problem is, she would not even ask to slap him but probably do it if he was hurting her delicate feelings. The actual problem is the double standard and the normalization of violence concerning men.

[MMX2010]

It's not only telling that they didn't ask the girls to slap the boys, but they also didn't test whether girls would be more willing to slap boys depending on who is doing the asking: mother, father, same-sex friend, opposite-sex friend, same-age same-sex stranger, same-age opposite-sex stranger, stranger male adult, stranger female adult. 

 

It may be true that girls are much more willing to slap boys, no matter who asks.  Or girls may be more willing to slap boys only as long as a female asks. 

[PatrickC]

Yes, the irony I find with all this, is that it doesn't seem to compute the degree to which men actually protect women. It's seems to suggest that something (what exactly, is never explained) negative occurs between boys coming out of childhood and entering manhood.

 

And as MMX suggests, why not test this experiment on the girls too. Although I have to say, that I have a rather bad taste about such experiments. Given the results of the Milgram experiments, if it were to actually encourage children to hit each other.

[PGP]

Men have peniseses, some men rape women with their penis, therefore all men are potential rapists, therefore any characteristics of a man in physiology, behaviour, instinct etc that differs from women is a characteristic of a rapist, therefore maleness must be controlled, minimised, eradicated etc. to remove the threat to women. About right?

 

I have seen reports lately that Denmark consistently appears near the top of the "happiness" index. It has a birthrate per woman of 1.73.

 

http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v5/n3/full/ncpendmet1077.html

 

"In Denmark, 20% of all young men are estimated to have severely decreased semen quality as a consequence of reduced sperm concentration.¹ The effect of abnormal spermatozoon morphology on fecundity is another parameter that suggests poor semen quality. Fecundity decreases when the percentage of normal forms falls below 9%. In one study, only 31% of young Danish men had levels of morphologically normal spermatozoa above 9%."

 

"Male reproductive health disorders, including impaired semen quality, testicular cancer, cryptorchidism and hypospadias, seem be on the rise in many European countries.⁶ These conditions are associated with testicular dysgenesis syndrome (TDS)—a condition of fetal, developmental origin in which environmental factors are the most important determinant.⁷ Many different groups of chemicals (e.g. phthalates and pesticides) are now emerging as 'endocrine disruptors,' and have antiandrogenic or antiestrogenic effects that might affect semen quality."

 

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Glyphosate_Roundup_and_Human_Male_Infertility.php

 

Steep decline in human male sperm count concomitant with rise in testicular germ cell cancer, congenital malformations of the male reproductive tract and drop in serum testosterone levels, all pointing towards increasing exposure to glyphosate/Roundup herbicides during the past decades, now corroborated by lab findings Dr Mae-Wan Ho

 

"Testosterone, the male hormone, is the major driver of male reproductive development and function. Suppression of its levels within the adult testis shuts down spermatogenesis and induces infertility. Studies of men with idiopathic infertility – for which the cause is unknown - and low sperm counts often show evidence of abnormal Leydig cells, which produce testosterone in the testis."

 

!The researchers found that brief exposure to Roundup at 36 ppm (0.036 g/L) for 30 minutes was sufficient to induce oxidative stress (a failure of energy metabolism, see later) and activate multiple stress-response pathways leading to cell death in the pre-puberty rat testis.

The team concluded [8]: “Altogether, the Ca²⁺-mediated disturbances by glyphosate-Roundup in rat testis cells around 36 ppm, could contribute to the reproductive effects observed in male agricultural workers exposed to this pesticide at prepubertal age.” "

 

 

http://bmb.oxfordjournals.org/content/68/1/47.full

 

"All four conditions of the testicular dysgenesis syndrome show some degree of heritability. This is compatible with the idea that they are linked.

Heritability of subfertility may at first sight appear to be impossible: a ‘gene for infertility’ is surely impossible, on evolutionary grounds, as it would quickly be eliminated. (Theoretically, this would not apply if the heterozygous state of a recessive gene carried some advantage, but evidence from a Hutterite population is that inbreeding is unrelated to male fertility⁶⁰.) An alternative explanation is, however, possible. In a steady state, a balance would exist between selection against polymorphisms that impair fertility and their de novo creation as a result of genetic damage. As there is nothing to constrain these two processes to be equal, new damage could occur at a rate greater than elimination, leading to an increase in incidence. The same argument applies, but with less strong elimination, to testicular cancer, hypospadias and cryptorchidism, which are associated with subfertility, and which show evidence of heritability."

 

Once the "threat" is removed entirely and we're all "equal", perhaps we'll all be as "happy" as the Danes?

[hannahbanana]

Yes, the irony I find with all this, is that it doesn't seem to compute the degree to which men actually protect women. It's seems to suggest that something (what exactly, is never explained) negative occurs between boys coming out of childhood and entering manhood.

 

And as MMX suggests, why not test this experiment on the girls too. Although I have to say, that I have a rather bad taste about such experiments. Given the results of the Milgram experiments, if it were to actually encourage children to hit each other.

 

I would also be interested to see the results of such a social experiment with roles reversed or with different people asking, as MMX said. I also think it's funny that when asked why they won't hit her, some of the boys say "Because I'm a man!" This point was also clearly made in text. So, their reason for NOT hitting her, is because they are men, yet the point is still made that it is ALSO because they are men that men hit women. I'm confused. I guess they mean that a "real" man doesn't hit a woman?

[PatrickC]

I also think it's funny that when asked why they won't hit her, some of the boys say "Because I'm a man!" This point was also clearly made in text. So, their reason for NOT hitting her, is because they are men

 

Well there in lies the irony of course. These boys have clearly been programmed that hitting women (as a man) is a bad thing. Which should suggest that it's unusual that men as adults should suddenly decide differently of course.

[Kevin Beal]

Well there in lies the irony of course. These boys have clearly been programmed that hitting women (as a man) is a bad thing. Which should suggest that it's unusual that men as adults should suddenly decide differently of course.

So programmed that it's inconceivable. Our whole identities would be at risk, like we would dissolve. At least, that's how I experienced it.

 

The fact that some men do beat up women seems to speak to an overwhelming amount of rage, enough to overcome this programming.

[PatrickC]

The fact that some men do beat up women seems to speak to an overwhelming amount of rage, enough to overcome this programming.

 

Yes, it's true that the programming, which could well come from an irrational place, as in men shouldn't hit women because they are snowflakes or wilting violets even. That once into manhood, they may find the women of their history contemptible enough to punish all women as a result.

 

Is that what you meant kevin?

[Kevin Beal]

Is that what you meant, kevin?

I mean to say that's got to be quite the triggering event to overcome such a powerful psychological standing order. Either by being totally and royally fucked over as a child, or by being around such an enormously toxic woman that could humiliate or enrage enough to make a man snap that hard.

 

Erin Pizzey was quoted saying something like "I'm amazed there aren't many many more men abusing women [and snapping like mentioned above]".

 

If there is gender symmetry in perpetration of domestic violence, and women do not receive this same programming (the opposite is true), then what does that say about the way men are treated? I think it says that men are treated far worse, if that makes sense. And maybe that's the reason this "boys can never hit girls" stuff is so ubiquitous and entrenched: to deny all the rage (until one day they snap).

 

Just a theory, of course.

[PGP]

Well there in lies the irony of course. These boys have clearly been programmed that hitting women (as a man) is a bad thing. Which should suggest that it's unusual that men as adults should suddenly decide differently of course.

This reminds me of an event when I was 12-13. Up to 13, boys and girls were mixed in the sport I played, so occasionally there would be a girl on the opposing team. We were playing a "friendly" game where one of the opposing locals was the referee. One of my team was carrying the ball and getting hit from behind fairly brutally and illegally from an opposing player that happened to be a girl. He didn't look back, just threw an arm back to retaliate, so I know he didn't know it was a girl. He made contact to her face and she started wailing and crying. The referee stopped the game, rushed over and lifted the young chap off the ground by the neck, screaming into this face that you should never hit a girl. 

Men have peniseses, some men rape women with their penis, therefore all men are potential rapists, therefore any characteristics of a man in physiology, behaviour, instinct etc that differs from women is a characteristic of a rapist, therefore maleness must be controlled, minimised, eradicated etc. to remove the threat to women. About right?

 

I have seen reports lately that Denmark consistently appears near the top of the "happiness" index. It has a birthrate per woman of 1.73.

 

http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v5/n3/full/ncpendmet1077.html

 

"In Denmark, 20% of all young men are estimated to have severely decreased semen quality as a consequence of reduced sperm concentration.¹ The effect of abnormal spermatozoon morphology on fecundity is another parameter that suggests poor semen quality. Fecundity decreases when the percentage of normal forms falls below 9%. In one study, only 31% of young Danish men had levels of morphologically normal spermatozoa above 9%."

 

"Male reproductive health disorders, including impaired semen quality, testicular cancer, cryptorchidism and hypospadias, seem be on the rise in many European countries.⁶ These conditions are associated with testicular dysgenesis syndrome (TDS)—a condition of fetal, developmental origin in which environmental factors are the most important determinant.⁷ Many different groups of chemicals (e.g. phthalates and pesticides) are now emerging as 'endocrine disruptors,' and have antiandrogenic or antiestrogenic effects that might affect semen quality."

 

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Glyphosate_Roundup_and_Human_Male_Infertility.php

 

Steep decline in human male sperm count concomitant with rise in testicular germ cell cancer, congenital malformations of the male reproductive tract and drop in serum testosterone levels, all pointing towards increasing exposure to glyphosate/Roundup herbicides during the past decades, now corroborated by lab findings Dr Mae-Wan Ho

 

"Testosterone, the male hormone, is the major driver of male reproductive development and function. Suppression of its levels within the adult testis shuts down spermatogenesis and induces infertility. Studies of men with idiopathic infertility – for which the cause is unknown - and low sperm counts often show evidence of abnormal Leydig cells, which produce testosterone in the testis."

 

!The researchers found that brief exposure to Roundup at 36 ppm (0.036 g/L) for 30 minutes was sufficient to induce oxidative stress (a failure of energy metabolism, see later) and activate multiple stress-response pathways leading to cell death in the pre-puberty rat testis.

The team concluded [8]: “Altogether, the Ca²⁺-mediated disturbances by glyphosate-Roundup in rat testis cells around 36 ppm, could contribute to the reproductive effects observed in male agricultural workers exposed to this pesticide at prepubertal age.” "

 

 

http://bmb.oxfordjournals.org/content/68/1/47.full

 

"All four conditions of the testicular dysgenesis syndrome show some degree of heritability. This is compatible with the idea that they are linked.

Heritability of subfertility may at first sight appear to be impossible: a ‘gene for infertility’ is surely impossible, on evolutionary grounds, as it would quickly be eliminated. (Theoretically, this would not apply if the heterozygous state of a recessive gene carried some advantage, but evidence from a Hutterite population is that inbreeding is unrelated to male fertility⁶⁰.) An alternative explanation is, however, possible. In a steady state, a balance would exist between selection against polymorphisms that impair fertility and their de novo creation as a result of genetic damage. As there is nothing to constrain these two processes to be equal, new damage could occur at a rate greater than elimination, leading to an increase in incidence. The same argument applies, but with less strong elimination, to testicular cancer, hypospadias and cryptorchidism, which are associated with subfertility, and which show evidence of heritability."

 

 

Once the "threat" is removed entirely and we're all "equal", perhaps we'll all be as "happy" as the Danes?