Kaoboj Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I want to try something. I want to assimilate a “Ten Commandments” type list of the most basic UPB principles (Rape, Murder, Theft, Fraud, etc) and attempt to get the major religions of the world to all agree to the basic premises. It’s all fine and dandy to expect everyone to become objective, secular humanists, but the truth is that people cling to their religions for multiple reasons. Rather than trying to “convert” them, why don’t we try to gain traction for UPBs from within? Let’s infect their theology with the virtue of UPB! I have many Muslim friends who clearly are outraged by Islamic fundamentalist shenanigans. I have Christian friends who want to denounce the Westboro Baptist shenanigans. They will go to their graves clinging to their religion, but if we can get them to subscribe to the basic tenants, and actively shun the bad behaviors (even though they are tacitly vindicated in the Quran and Bible), I think it will produce virtue. What say ye? We could call it something like the “World Morality Project.” We could go to high ranking members of all faiths and get photos of them signing off. Let’s get Mormons and Baptists and Muslims and Sikhs and Buddhists to all sign off on this stuff, so maybe the neighbor of an extremist can be infected with virtue and say “hey, before you go blow up that _____, look at these morals we all apparently subscribe to. Maybe your extremism is out of whack with your core beliefs.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Beal Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Welcome to the boards! This is a friggin' ambitious project, to be sure. I think there is some real value in what you're proposing. I feel a bit skeptical that it could be pulled off, but if it could, I would be very interested to see how it turns out. I wonder also about how effective it would be. Maybe I've become too cynical or bitter, but I've noticed that when I'm arguing with theists, they tend to move the goalpost for the discussion around a lot, which I think is because they don't really have a rational methodology for determining truth from falsehood. That is, if they agree with the conclusions of these UPB principles, they could always hear a contradicting bible passage and "decide" that this new thing is the truth, to suit whatever agenda they have in the moment. All other things being equal, I'm sure we'd agree that teaching people critical thinking is best, regardless of the conclusions, but I wonder if this is actually a necessary prerequisite for adopting UPB. Of course, do let me know what you think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLugi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't want to squash the spirit of this but principles are either valid and seen as such or they are not. Do your christian and muslim friends understand the logic behind upb or simply believe that murder is wrong? Would the task be to make a case for upb to all religions? Wouldn't that be asking them to not believe what they believe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoboj Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks for the responses, guys. DCLugi, your comment is exactly what I want to address! I feel that we (folks who are moral without need for religion) put such a premium on truth and validity that we fail to realize the step-wise progression often required to dissociate from religion-based morals. I know for me it was a gradual thing. Once you're there, you want everyone to just take the leap, but I feel many would do well to incorporate UPB into their religious moral construct, then slowly realize, "hey, I don't need all this religious cultural baggage, I'm just gonna be a good guy and stick to these principles I was supposedly upholding the whole time, anyway!" I think we can all agree that the modern religions of the world teach that it is wrong to kill, rape, defraud, and otherwise mistreat people. The passages of scripture in favor of virtue far outnumber the exceptions (which we are always so hasty to point out). So rather than making them feel uncomfortable about the cognitive dissonance required to defend religion-based morality, why not just help them solidify their personal stances behind UPB? I think it would be a grass roots effort against extremism. I see this playing out most poignantly with the Muslim crowd. My friends who have been to the hotter, sandier, more oil-laden areas of the world confirm my suspicion that the towns are made up of a vast majority of normal folks, peaceful muslims who just want to go about their lives. If they felt that the vast majority of Muslims agreed to prioritize UPB principles found within their own teachings over the extreme exceptions, maybe they'd be able to talk sense into the extremists. The normal, peaceful folks just need to know they're in the majority, and that their voice matters. And then if they could see that a bunch of Jews signed on to the same set of principles, and so did the American infidels, a bunch might wonder, "what are we doing all this killing for, anyways?" I envision a FB comment with a picture of a white kid holding his paper that says, "I am a catholic, and I promise not to kill, rape, defraud, etc because that's the right thing to do"then a muslim kid can hold up the same thing. and a jewish kid. and a ... you get the point. Maybe I'll start a UPB Facebook account and try to get the ball rolling, asking folks if they agree with the tenants to post a picture of them holding up a similar sign, then share it with all 1,000 of my contacts. I wonder how quickly it would/could spread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AynRand Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think that is a very noble project and I wish you all the best. I hope I haven't misinterpreted what your goal is, but UPB has a thought process behind it, and to make an equivalent to the ten commandments every "commandment" would have to be like a page long to grasp the reasoning behind it, and to summarize the philosophy. What I mean by that would be to explain the 3 major sections of the book the theory, practice, and application.. If you don't hope to explain the reasoning behind it then wouldn't this just be the secular 10 commandments that Christopher Hitchens made. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternatives_to_the_Ten_Commandments#Christopher_Hitchens That being said I believe that if we did create our own 10 commandments we could popularize them, and religions may follow. After all religions often jump on the bandwagon of popularity. For example many catholic churches now embrace evolution now that the evidence is undeniable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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