sagiquarius Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Could anybody recommend a specific counselor for depression, major changes of life and grief? I'm not doing very well and it's time I admit that and get some damn help. Thank ya kindly.
Kevin Beal Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 I'm very sorry to hear that you are in a bad place right now. I can't recommend anybody in particular, but I did end up going through the same search myself in 2010, for the same reasons. My Search I searched Psychology Today's listings and found someone who listed their areas of most focus being treating depression, family issues, and they said that the therapeutic relationship itself was a bigger factor for success in therapy than their Jungian analysis background. Those were the three things I wanted most, and so I gave her a call with the intention of just trusting my gut (as per Stef's advice) and I said something like "maybe a stupid question, but..." and she interrupted me assertively and made it very clear that she didn't think there were stupid questions, and I thought that was really cool and a skill I wanted, so I scheduled an initial in-person interview session. The questions I asked during the first session were something like: Do you regard forgiveness as a healthy and necessary part of overcoming past abuse in the family? What do you think about blarping? How do you define "success" in therapy? and some more I've forgotten... The answers she gave to these questions weren't what I was expecting, and I wasn't sure what to make of them, but I did notice that her answers revealed a lot of nuance to these issues that I wasn't aware of before, which piqued my interest. So, I decided to do a few more sessions with her to see how I felt later. Testing the Waters I spent those first few sessions laying out the position I was in, that I was strongly considering never talking to my mother again, and taking a break from my siblings, that I had all sort of insecurities around women and dating, that I was constantly anxious in social situations, and all of the things I never felt safe to tell old friends or my siblings. Partly I wanted to get that boulder off my chest, but also I wanted to do the RTR approach of being vulnerable and testing to see if that vulnerability would be exploited or attacked, and it wasn't, it was honored. A few more sessions in and I remember asking her what she thought about my trouble with distinguishing between depression and sorrow, and she told me that she thinks I've been depressed a very long time (since I was a young child) and expressed sympathy for that, since it's like the fish who doesn't know what water is, because it's everywhere. That blew my mind and at that point I did whatever I could to pay for more sessions. Being unemployed at the time, that meant getting any side job I conceivably could and finally getting a full time job. Necessity is the mother of invention, and I needed to get a job in order to get my shit together. It took several months, but I ended up getting a job that I love (front-end development) that I don't think I could have got without Stef's interviewing advice and the confidence I was gaining in therapy. Preparation I think like Stef has advised about finding love, being efficient as possible is important, by expressing what exactly you are looking for, being vulnerable and listening to your gut. I think that advice applies generally and not just to dating. I get the impression talking to people that folks in this community perceive good therapists as being extraordinarily rare, but I don't think that's necessarily true. I lucked out with the first one I interviewed. I think having a very clear picture of what you are looking for and being efficient, like I mentioned, helps a lot. I did a bunch of research, made all sorts of lists and journaled about it a lot to prepare myself for the search and that's the way it should be, I think. This person is hopefully going to be spending a lot of time with you, getting to know all your deep dark secrets, is going to have a hell of a lot of authority in your mind. Not preparing for that is like going out on dates with random people. It's probably going to be painful, to say the least. Resources Alice Miller's advice on finding someone good Daniel Mackler's critique of psychotherapy Three Differences Between Therapy & Friendship by Daniel MacklerThree Differences Between Therapists & Parents by Daniel Mackler FDR1927 How to Find a Great Therapist! I hope this is helpful. Take care, my friend. 7
sagiquarius Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 Thanks for the response Kevin. How are you liking the frontend dev work life? That was one path I had given serious consideration and still may pursue. I'm finding it difficult to make a choice for myself with this weight of depression and sorrow on me. I'm not accustomed to living with this level of sadness, in fact I'd go as far to say this isn't living. More like surviving each day in hopes the next isn't as bad. Often I feel like I have forgotten what it's like to be happy or to live with a purpose. Perhaps, like you mentioned, I have been this way longer than I think and my recent life changes have brought this shit to the foreground. I need come up with some sort of small steps for myself in addition to finding a therapist. I don't want to make any major life decisions in this state of mind. Anyway, your response was very helpful and I very much appreciate the time you took to write it. BTW, your post was well written and formatted neatly for the web. Is that partly to do with your job, or do you dabble in blogging or copywriting?
Kevin Beal Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 I love front-end work, the industry, the innovation, the low barrier to entry & competition, being customer focused, etc. And I like to format posts that I write that are long, that I really really want people to read because it's more inviting that way, rather than looking at a giant block of text. And yea, it comes from my front-end work, although I am likely going to start blogging/vlogging soon. Thanks for asking When I think of depression, I think of being numb emotionally. I'll probably be irritable and cynical, or occasionally feeling despair, but mostly it's numbness. Does that fit your experience? Maybe I'm only talking about myself, but I find that it's overwhelming feelings that cause me to get depressed. Feelings around being all alone in the world, about how much I've compromised myself and am not self expressed. Alice Miller talks about depression as a defense against emotional pain, numbing all emotional experience (since you can't just numb one emotion). When I was just starting therapy, I had such little experience with being vulnerable, expressing and articulating my own hurt. It was incredibly exhausting, actually. And I would feel a release and go numb and be able to relax. My therapist said something which has stuck with me about it, which is that these feelings don't really ever go away (at least not completely), you will always have grief, and despair and hurt as constants in your life, but you can build your tolerance to them so that they don't become so overwhelming. I think that's a hell of a lot easier to do when you have people to support you when it gets tough, to have your back and your interests in mind. There's a lot of added security in that. I think that necessity is important, too. Connecting with the fact that you need to get yourself some help and taking some of these first steps is an important thing to be aware of, and not forget. If you lose sight of that need, and become numb and therefore content with where you are, that's a problem that is almost impossible to solve, usually until you hit another bottom and hopefully don't repeat that cycle. Most things I do that are hard, I do because I need to do it. I get my work done before the (loose) deadlines and work on projects which aren't as enjoyable as other projects I could otherwise work on because I need to do those things to get paid. I do creative writing, audio journaling and other types of self work because I need to avoid regressing. I eat healthy foods and avoid all kinds of things I'd rather eat because I need to stay healthy for a healthy brain and body. These are needs I try not to lose sight of, and take care of myself the ways I never was as a child. I know it's a public forum and you might want to maintain a level of privacy, but I'd like to know what this big life change is, and what is the thought content of the grief and sorrow. It sounds terrible, and I'm really sorry about that Take care of yourself out there! 2
sagiquarius Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 When I think of depression, I think of being numb emotionally. I'll probably be irritable and cynical, or occasionally feeling despair, but mostly it's numbness. Does that fit your experience? Maybe I'm only talking about myself, but I find that it's overwhelming feelings that cause me to get depressed. Feelings around being all alone in the world, about how much I've compromised myself and am not self expressed. Alice Miller talks about depression as a defense against emotional pain, numbing all emotional experience (since you can't just numb one emotion). That's pretty close to how I'm feeling, Kevin. I would add feelings of entrapment and loss of interest in things I know will make me feel better - like writing, podcasting, or engaging in conversation. Did you find yourself ignoring that what you wanted to do when you were feeling nasty? Almost as if you were intentionally keeping yourself in a shitty state of sadness? I'll give you the brief synopsis before I go out for a run to clear my head: I moved to Montana in May of 2014. It wasn't more than a few weeks after that when I started to notice this sort of sadness creeping over me like a slow dense fog settling over a once happy and content little town. I would often feel overwhelmed and dejected. Several months prior to that found me struggling with where I wanted to move, what my girlfriend and I were going to do with our relationship, and what I wanted to do with myself professionally and for a creative outlet. For a long while (until my life coach pointed this out to me) I would dismiss and diminish my suffering by saying things like "oh, well at least it's not as bad as <insert comparison>". As of this moment, when I look back upon the last year, I've noticed a persistent feeling of urgency and ambivalence about what to do. I'm not concerned about the how - that always gets worked out when I make a choice and stick with it. I don't feel safe nor content with where we are currently living or my current job. I am taking small steps to change that, but these things take time and the thought of living like this for much longer is ... disgusting to me. I'm not suppose to be this way, man. This shit ain't right, as they say. My girlfriend tells me that she feels sad when it appears like I want to laugh and be happy but it never quite breaches the surface - like it's being held back or attenuated in some way. It's like I'm covered in some viscus mucus that blurs my perspective and makes it hard to touch upon those emotions. Even when I feel like I need to cry over this stuff, that doesn't even come. I feel it bubble to the surface but then it stops, or perhaps I'm stopping the expression. It's like I'm currently living in some sort of emotional void where I feel stuff, but not to the extreme nor clarity I once did. Which is disturbing to me because I'm generally a very passionate and expressive person. I don't trust my judgement any longer given the result of my decisions these last several months. I'm so tired Kevin. Tired of always second guessing myself, tired of rubbing salt into my own wounds, and I'm really tired of the ambivalence. I feel uprooted and unable to find respite nor solace to fucking think straight. Perhaps "feel straight" is a better way of putting it. Hence my desire for therapy. To be fair, this is not the entirety of my experience. There are days of happiness, where I'm expressing my creativity or feeling good, but they almost feel like accidental respites from the usual , or like I'm faking it. That's just not right! Does any of this (situational differences aside) seem familiar to you? 1
Kevin Beal Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Did you find yourself ignoring that what you wanted to do when you were feeling nasty? Almost as if you were intentionally keeping yourself in a shitty state of sadness? I did find myself acting spitefully about things I know will make me feel better, like what the fuck is the point of feeling better, anyway? I feel like a tool, like depression is the only thing that is true, and the only reason everyone else isn't depressed like me is either they secretly are, or they are naive tools, like the world wants me to be. That's slightly dramatized, but it describes pretty much my entire personal mythology from my late teens to early twenties. I'm completely convinced nihilists are severely depressed people, like I was. For me depression was like the dark world from Zelda: Link to the Past, and the rest of the time I was in the light world. Like living a dual life that were at odds with each other. I felt like I was a completely different person with an entirely different set of beliefs about the world and about myself. In the dark world, I was shit, but everyone else was worse because they couldn't see the truth of the dark world. Whenever I shifted from one to the other, it was as if that's the way things had always been, like a strange amnesia making forget how much enjoyment I got out of simple things on the one hand, and on the other I forgot just how much simple things bothered me. For me, depression is more irritating than sad, but that's different for different people. My girlfriend tells me that she feels sad when it appears like I want to laugh and be happy but it never quite breaches the surface - like it's being held back or attenuated in some way. It's like I'm covered in some viscus mucus that blurs my perspective and makes it hard to touch upon those emotions. Even when I feel like I need to cry over this stuff, that doesn't even come. I feel it bubble to the surface but then it stops, or perhaps I'm stopping the expression. Yes, you are stopping it. It's not surprising to me that you can't cry. Crying, for men, is often harder than feeling the emotions which prompt it. I find it almost impossible to do, myself. That is, unless it's the part in any movie where there is a last ditch heroic effort. That will make me cry every time. I'm still not entirely sure why, but it provokes a powerful, chest heaving, convulsive cry which will even happen in the theaters. But if it's my own suffering, my eyes are dry as sand, since I was trained to deny my own suffering. What you're describing does sound familiar to me, but I didn't catch what the ambivalence was, or what thoughts precede the deep sorrow. I have a very clear picture of what your experience is, but not so much what the conflict or wound is, exactly.
Matt D Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I have enjoyed reading this exchange so far. Obviously, I'm very sorry to hear that you are feeling depressed, sagi. I had different results than Kevin with regards to therapy and so it may be helpful to get a different perspective. Looking back I wish I had followed some of the advice he is giving in this thread. 1. For starters I just googled 'therapist near me' and came up with a name that was in my neighborhood. When I called the woman said she was retired but asked some basic questions about what I was looking for help with and then gave me three names to follow up with. One I ruled out because he was a psychiatrist, and between the other two I chose the female because I thought it would put me in the least comfortable situation. I was definitely following my gut here, but it's interesting that I didn't even try calling the other therapist for a comparison. 2. On the first meeting I asked her about her approach and she said "I don't have an approach, we just talk". I remember thinking that was a cool thing to say but I didn't think to ask her how she would know if the therapy was successful. That could have saved me a lot of time and money. Two months into the therapy I finally began to ask her more questions such as, "what is your take on prescription medication?" and "why did you become a therapist?" To the first question she gave an answer that didn't satisfy me and to the second she refused to answer. I told I was irritated by her refusal and that was the end of the discussion. 3. I quit therapy because I wasn't seeing progress no matter how much I opened up. I was progressing on my own outside of therapy and I think that's how I was eventually able to see that the relationship was not productive for me, and in many ways was damaging. She was not able to stand up in defense for my traumatized child -- she validated my feelings by nodding at the right times and sounding empathetic but she didn't validate that what I experienced at the hand of my abusers was wrong which is what I needed to hear. My experience indicates that you will benefit from being ruthlessly critical in your initial questioning while looking for a therapist. I see Kevin posted links to Dan Mackler's website. Mackler has said that finding a great therapist is a real challenge simply because so many haven't brought their needs to their own parents or if they have forgave their parents for what they did. I don't mean to discourage you but to let you know what to expect. There are lots of effective ways to heal and gain self-knowledge (journaling, meditation, therapy, playing) so the best strategy is to try them all, in my opinion. 2
sagiquarius Posted January 12, 2015 Author Posted January 12, 2015 Kevin: I'll be more mindful of the thoughts that precede the sorrow. In general, a lot of "have to" statements followed by self attacking often accompany the sorrow. Matt: You're right, to me the process of finding a good therapist is no different than finding a good life partner. I saw one potential person from the FDR board that I'd like to at least check out. I'm fairly picky when it comes to with whom I get a long with personally, so I'm going to presume that'll apply to a therapist as well. I do journal and podcast regularly, which does help. But I feel like I keep taking steps forward and steps backward. Like I'm stuck in rut or cycle. Know what I mean? I wrote a long journal entry a little over 2 weeks ago. You're welcome to read it as it may give you some insight as to my mind set and inner thoughts. Here ya go!
TheSchwartz Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 More like surviving each day in hopes the next isn't as bad. This idea when I realized it about myself hit me like a horse's hoof to the teeth.
sagiquarius Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 This idea when I realized it about myself hit me like a horse's hoof to the teeth. As Stef would say: Go on... What did you do when the horse kicked you in the teeth?
TheSchwartz Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 As Stef would say: Go on... What did you do when the horse kicked you in the teeth? I fell down, stopped moving, and didn't try to get up.
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