MysterionMuffles Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Can virtuous people be in dysfunctional relationships or have self destructive habits, or do those things negate their possible virtues such as being honest, curious, and compassionate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AynRand Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Good Question I can't wait to hear the replies. I personally am a big believer in "what's one thing got to do with another". Meaning that I think it's to difficult to compare a person's good deeds with his or her bad ones. I do think that it would be far harder to maintain a virtuous life if you are in a dysfunctional relationship, but I do believe it is possible. Just a personal anecdote when I lived with my parents I tried my absolute best to be a virtuous person, and I'm probably too biased to make a good judgment on that, but even If I didn't succeed I do think it would have been possible for me to be virtuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeravos Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think that it is possible to practice virtue, while still having parts of your life that are dysfunctional, to a certain degree. For example, maybe you are an alcoholic, and you drinking is causing problems in your life, making you sad and down. Your friends approach you and want you to get out of that habit. Now you stand before a crossroads. Either you open up about your self-destructive drinking honestly and show curiosity about it, or you stonewall. If you stonewall, and keep drinking, your friends, if they respect themselves and you, will discontinue their relationship with you, since they would not want to see you destroy yourself (and subsidise your destrucive habit by continuing having a relationship with you) since they care about you. Choosing to stonewall, or attacking your friends for trying to understand what is going on for you would lower your overall virtue, while struggling through being honest and curious about your drinking and taking action to fix it, would increase your overall virtue. In short, it is all about your willingness to change, your capacity for honesty and integrity, that determines your virtue. Virtue is like a flower. It starts out as a humble seed, but if you put time and effort into nurishing it, it will grow to be a flower. And it is a lifetime occupation, keeping that flower of virtue alive. Hoep that makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterionMuffles Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Good Question I can't wait to hear the replies. I personally am a big believer in "what's one thing got to do with another". Meaning that I think it's to difficult to compare a person's good deeds with his or her bad ones. I do think that it would be far harder to maintain a virtuous life if you are in a dysfunctional relationship, but I do believe it is possible. Just a personal anecdote when I lived with my parents I tried my absolute best to be a virtuous person, and I'm probably too biased to make a good judgment on that, but even If I didn't succeed I do think it would have been possible for me to be virtuous. Right. I'm trying to see if they are mutually exclusive. Does virtue erase dysfunction and vice versa, or can they co-exist? Does being virtuous guarantee that compassion, curiousity, and honesty get you out of all dysfunctional relationships? I would say you could have been virtuous around them, but their dysfunction chipped away at your capacity for virtue because you had to play their game a little bit to survive. I think that it is possible to practice virtue, while still having parts of your life that are dysfunctional, to a certain degree. For example, maybe you are an alcoholic, and you drinking is causing problems in your life, making you sad and down. Your friends approach you and want you to get out of that habit. Now you stand before a crossroads. Either you open up about your self-destructive drinking honestly and show curiosity about it, or you stonewall. If you stonewall, and keep drinking, your friends, if they respect themselves and you, will discontinue their relationship with you, since they would not want to see you destroy yourself (and subsidise your destrucive habit by continuing having a relationship with you) since they care about you. Choosing to stonewall, or attacking your friends for trying to understand what is going on for you would lower your overall virtue, while struggling through being honest and curious about your drinking and taking action to fix it, would increase your overall virtue. In short, it is all about your willingness to change, your capacity for honesty and integrity, that determines your virtue. Virtue is like a flower. It starts out as a humble seed, but if you put time and effort into nurishing it, it will grow to be a flower. And it is a lifetime occupation, keeping that flower of virtue alive. Hoep that makes sense! Ah yes...dysfunction could also sometimes be gateways to virtue. But only if there's self awareness involved and a willingness to change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalmia Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Is integrity a virtue? Dysfunction is a lack of integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Ed Moran Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Dysfunctional compared to what? For instance, what exactly is a "dysfunctional" relationship? If we define that the function of a relationship is to foster virtue and happiness in each member, then clearly relationships which perpetuate narcissism, helplessness, and any other number of nasty traits are not functional. And more broadly, if the definition of a "functional personality" is one which pursues happiness through the vessel of virtuous acts, then I think we have an answer to your question: a person is virtuous to the extent they are functional, and evil to the extent they are dysfunctional. But this conclusion comes directly from how I've defined what the function of a personality is. What is your definition of "dysfunctional" in the context you're using it? So in my opinion, someone can be virtuous and dysfunctional, but their virtue and their dysfunction are at odds. And I actually strongly disagree that "dysfunction" opens a gate to virtue. I think you are correct, Rainbow, in noting that it is the self-awareness, courage, and integrity which open the gate to virtue - in other words, virtuous acts open the gate towards becoming a virtuous person. The dysfunction however is completely antithetical to the virtue, at least as I've defined the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So in my opinion, someone can be virtuous and dysfunctional, but their virtue and their dysfunction are at odds. And I actually strongly disagree that "dysfunction" opens a gate to virtue. I think you are correct, Rainbow, in noting that it is the self-awareness, courage, and integrity which open the gate to virtue - in other words, virtuous acts open the gate towards becoming a virtuous person. The dysfunction however is completely antithetical to the virtue, at least as I've defined the terms. Most people pervert words like "self-awareness, courage, and integrity" by forcing those words to support a desired conclusion. Case in point, people who seek monogamous relationships automatically assume that people who do NOT seek monogamous relationships are lacking in self-awareness, courage, and integrity. But I think that such people are, at bare minimum, courageous for daring to explore the limitations of monogamy in an atmosphere that doesn't want them to make such explorations in the first place. (They may, OR may not, be self-aware or possessing integrity.) So I think that people can be virtuous and dysfunctional by claiming a definition of virtuousness that excuses (no, lauds as praiseworthy) their dysfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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