Joel Richard Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't believe in democracy, but consistently feel the temptation to help the libertarian party in it's goals as most of them align with mine. I'm looking for an Anarchist perspective on the validity of trying to effect change in this way. If you have an opinion could you please tell me why it's a good or bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culain Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The current leader of the libertarian party of Canada Tim Moen has come out and said that he fully supports anarchy. He believes that change comes from the people, citing the 10% of population statistic. His stance on politics seems to be simply a platform for educating people on state violence. As an Anarchist I did not vote for the party, but I do often share his messages. He's not hard, you can probably contact him through facebook. He appeared on Jeff Berwicks Anarchast and will be speaking at Anarchopulco next month, definitely can't wait to hear from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessionalTeabagger Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Can you give me one positive effect of libertarians participation in politics/government over the past 35 years? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Can you give me one positive effect of libertarians participation in politics/government over the past 35 years? In general, the campaign apparatus is usually most successful in defeating some individual tax measures in states where such measures go on the general ballot. There have also been some efforts related to term limits that have worked over the years as well. Mild stuff, I grant you, but it's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the belly of the beast Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Although Tim Moen is a philosophical anarchist, my perception is that he is surrounded by many far less radical classical liberals who still believe in the validity of reform through elections, and who will likely put constant pressure on him and any other anarchists in the party to not say anything "too crazy". I would be skeptical of this whole process even as a purely mass educational pursuit, given that my impression is that most of the party activists still support the existence of the state, and hold out some hope of electing members of their party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickC Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 he is surrounded by many far less radical classical liberals who still believe in the validity of reform through elections, and who will likely put constant pressure on him and any other anarchists in the party to not say anything "too crazy". Hasn't Tim already publicly stated things that would be considered (anarchist) crazy. The fact that he has publicly agreed on YouTube with many of the thoughts of Stefan's. This alone makes him cannon fodder (in waiting) for the MSM I think. It would seem that the party generals may have already let that ship sail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the belly of the beast Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hasn't Tim already publicly stated things that would be considered (anarchist) crazy. The fact that he has publicly agreed on YouTube with many of the thoughts of Stefan's. This alone makes him cannon fodder (in waiting) for the MSM I think. It would seem that the party generals may have already let that ship sail. He has appeared on Anarchast, which is where I first learned about him. But I also sent out feelers about volunteering with the party if its activities were really going to be purely for education purposes, and I got the sense that they wanted classical liberals and paleoconservatives rather than full-on anarchists in public roles. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that ideas expressed on this site are still too radical for most of the Libertarian Party of Canada's membership and current leadership to stomach, barring Moen. I don't have deep knowledge of the party leadership or membership base, so take what I say with a grain of salt. This is all based on a few interactions that I've had. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessionalTeabagger Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 In general, the campaign apparatus is usually most successful in defeating some individual tax measures in states where such measures go on the general ballot. There have also been some efforts related to term limits that have worked over the years as well. Mild stuff, I grant you, but it's something. There are no specifics here. If the entire result of libertarian engagement in politics over 35 years is some vague claim of defeats of "tax measures" and the even vaguer "efforts related to term measures" then that's less than nothing. It's like saying I failed the exam completely but DID get one good mark for remembering to spell my name correctly. So that's SOMETHING. It's an abject failure that makes libertarians look idiotic. So true. People always think THEY will be the one to control it and use it for good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There are no specifics here. If the entire result of libertarian engagement in politics over 35 years is some vague claim of defeats of "tax measures" and the even vaguer "efforts related to term measures" then that's less than nothing. It's like saying I failed the exam completely but DID get one good mark for remembering to spell my name correctly. So that's SOMETHING. If you are expecting me to be an apologist for libertarian politics, you picked the wrong target. I did do stuff 15 years ago. I was even a membership director of a state party. I got 15% of the vote in a Portland suburb. But I came to realize it was a waste of time and money. The problem with specifics is that every single tax measure the libertarians opposed was opposed by others, and there was no consistency in the defeat of measure. There was no formula. There was no spread of libertarianism as a result. It was a pyrrhic victory most of the time anyway. But don't come down on me as a paladin of using the existing political system to dismantle the existing political system, please. My heart's not in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorPRSer Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Do you think you would enjoy yourself? If it sounds like fun to you, go for it. I have friends that do open carry rallies where they walk around Houston openly carrying rifles. Do I think they're helping the movement? No. Hurting the movement? Nah, but when I see photos of them in my news feed their smiles are cheek to cheek. I'm happy they take pleasure in the activity. I'd feel the same way about you getting involved in the libertarian party. Do it if you think there's a high probability it will make your life better. If you have mixed feelings about whether or not that's the case . . . eh, skip it. Do it/don't do it out of rational self-interest is my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 "In short, he finds himself, without his consent, so situated that, if he use the ballot, he may become a master; if he does not use it, he must become a slave. And he has no other alternative than these two. In self-defence, he attempts the former. His case is analogous to that of a man who has been forced into battle, where he must either kill others, or be killed himself." -- Lysander Spooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Richard Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I've been on a long soul searching mission and am happy that I have not pursued any sort of participation in a corrupt system such as democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I've been on a long soul searching mission and am happy that I have not pursued any sort of participation in a corrupt system such as democracy. If you gained self-knowledge from considering the question, then it was worth it! Sorry we were a buncha sourpusses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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