MysterionMuffles Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I understand that it's empathy 101 to say "sorry to hear that" or "sorry that happened to you," when people share disturbing experiences with us, but twice now I've done it with the other person saying "it's not your fault you didn't do anything." It's hard to explain, I do feel my sympathies are genuine, but I want to understand more of the reasoning why we say sorry for things we didn't cause. It just comes natural to me to say it, or when someone says it to me, I thank them for validating my emotions and experiences. What are your thoughts?
hannahbanana Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I know what you mean, I've been in that situation before too. Sometimes I say something like "I know, but it makes me sad seeing/thinking of you in such pain" or something like that. It's been pretty successful for me. I think that when they hear that from you, they can recognize that you actually care about them, and aren't just saying sorry because you feel uncomfortable.
PatrickC Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 My own thoughts on why people minimise your expression of empathy for them, by suggesting it wasn't your fault. Is mostly because they don't entirely connect with the injustice that was done to them. In an inverse way they are made to feel uncomfortable when someone shows compassion and empathy for their experience. Which leads them to immediately down playing it's effects. 2
Carl Green Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 When someone says "I'm sorry" they might be meaning it in the sense that what you have just said brings them sorrow. Not necessarily that they feel they caused it and are apologizing. 1
Matthew Ed Moran Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I usually mean it to say "I wish that didn't happen to you." It's not a statement about reality; it's a statement about my feelings." When people turn and say "but it wasn't your fault," I think they are blocking your invitation to empathize ("hmm, this person feels bad because I feel bad?") and are attempting to make you feel disconnected, making it more difficult to free them (or for them to free themselves) from the interests of villains who inhabit their mind (unempathetic friends, parents, mentors, etc.). Edit: And "sorry to hear that" is literally like saying "I feel sorrow hearing that". Because people have had so little experience with a genuine, true "I'm sorry I did that to you; I feel sorrow for doing that to you," and so much more experience with being manipulated by those words, they perhaps disconnect and manipulate you in return. I think it's always important to look at the emotions your feeling as the result of another's action. If you feel anxious when they respond in that way, it's almost like they're attempting to unload the anxiety they associate with "sorry to hear that" by manipulating it unto you. In this sense they are re-creating a situation of trauma and normalizing it, because the possibility of having a "new" reaction to this same situation would shine a bright light of truth on their relationships. And it's quite sad and tragic, in my opinion. 2
DCLugi Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Sorry to take a slight left turn but I always find it strange when people say "thank you" when they are complimented on their looks as if they were in some way responsible.
Songbirdo Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Could it be leftover programming from the other side of the equation: When you cause harm but didn't mean to?You accidently clobber someone in the head or whatever, and then you immediately recoil and apologize, "Sorry! (while also implying 'I didn't mean to or didn't do it on purpose!")" and the other person recognizes the error on your part and replies, "It's ok, I'm alright." relieving your guilt from the accident. So, socially we are programmed to say "Sorry" if we cause and respond "It's alright." if we are on the receiving end of a "Sorry". Similar to "Thanks!" -- "You're welcome." "No problem." or "Don't mention it."While learning Chinese I was drilled with: "I'm sorry." (dui bu qi) "It's OK" (me guan xi) to make them automatic responses.
MMX2010 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I understand that it's empathy 101 to say "sorry to hear that" or "sorry that happened to you," when people share disturbing experiences with us, but twice now I've done it with the other person saying "it's not your fault you didn't do anything." It's hard to explain, I do feel my sympathies are genuine, but I want to understand more of the reasoning why we say sorry for things we didn't cause. It just comes natural to me to say it, or when someone says it to me, I thank them for validating my emotions and experiences. What are your thoughts? My thoughts are controversial, but: (1) I feel like the number one thing parents do to their kids is make them feel guilty, because guilty children want fewer things and have lower standards. (2) I also feel that women sub-consciously prefer guilty men for the exact same reasons. So (3) the majority of people are carrying undeserved guilt, which makes them both unsuccessful and in need of people to "forgive" them. I've heard Stefan's explain that he wants me to connect with how horrible my experiences were as a child. But I dislike how he implies that a person has to emotionally connect, every single time, with every single person, whenever he's explaining his traumatic past. I agree with him about the "primary emotional connection" - the very first time you emotionally realize how shitty your experiences were. But that primary emotional connection is supposed to propel a man forward into success. (1) He connects with how emotionally manipulative his father was to cut him out of his life, and move forward...successful. (2) He connects with how weak his mother was - both for choosing him and minimizing his faults, even now - to accept that his mother will not move forward with him into a successful future. Once this primary connection has been experienced, all future emotional connections are optional. And I get to decide whether it's best for me to connect emotionally with what I'm describing. So when someone I don't know says, "I'm sorry that X happened to you.", I immediately suspect that they're feeling guilty for what happened to me. (Which I really don't need.) Or they're probing whether I'll put more emotion into my descriptions, so they can "gauge whether I'm being empathetic with my true self". (Which I also don't need.) Or they're feeling particularly weakened / fazed about what I described, but don't know how to say, "Hey wow. Can we slow down a minute?" And these negative experiences make me conclude that most people have inexplicable urges to help others. But they never consider that such a urge, when too large, always makes my problems "all about them" - meaning they're so focused on what they're feeling about what I just said, or on what they "should do about" what I just said, that their helpfulness doesn't feel like, "I'm here for you, if you want me to be." Instead it feels like, "Can't you see that I'm here for you, you ungrateful individual?" And so I strongly prefer lifestyle-advice, such as "how to life weights" or "how to eat better", over self-reflection advice. And statements like, "I'm sorry that this happened to you." don't fit under lifestyle-advice.
MMX2010 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 My post is a little long, but I can condense it to, "I feel sorry about what happened to you." doesn't strike me as equally honest as "I'm sad about what happened to you." does.
WasatchMan Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 It is empathy mixed with social etiquette mixed with the requirements of dialogue between two people to have one person respond to what the other person says.
Pepin Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 It is empathy mixed with social etiquette mixed with the requirements of dialogue between two people to have one person respond to what the other person says. This seems right to me. Another function is that it doesn't take the focus off the subject. Like if I were to say "that makes me so mad" in response to something awful that happened to someone, the other person may feel like they need to manage your feelings. On some primal level, they may feel like they caused you to be mad and that they need to resolve it. Or it may be that your emotional response makes you a prime subject for projection, which they likely manage though consoling you. I don't think the word sorry has much to do with its use in these contexts, but is rather one of those things we keep saying despite it not making any sense. Really, it not making sense might help it get past certain defensives. The advantage of saying "sorry" would be that it keeps the focus on the subject's thoughts and emotions, and keeps it off your's.
MMX2010 Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks for you post, Pepin. It's interesting that we both agree that the empathizer's emotions should be downplayed, but disagree that the word "sorry" is effective.
MysterionMuffles Posted January 24, 2015 Author Posted January 24, 2015 I know what you mean, I've been in that situation before too. Sometimes I say something like "I know, but it makes me sad seeing/thinking of you in such pain" or something like that. It's been pretty successful for me. I think that when they hear that from you, they can recognize that you actually care about them, and aren't just saying sorry because you feel uncomfortable. With the right people they'll recognize it, meanwhile it seems there are others who are halfway through connecting with their experience, but cut it off when you show them that empathy. Almost as if it's their own burden to deal with and no one else's to care about. My own thoughts on why people minimise your expression of empathy for them, by suggesting it wasn't your fault. Is mostly because they don't entirely connect with the injustice that was done to them. In an inverse way they are made to feel uncomfortable when someone shows compassion and empathy for their experience. Which leads them to immediately down playing it's effects. Yeah kinda like what Pat says here basically. I usually mean it to say "I wish that didn't happen to you." It's not a statement about reality; it's a statement about my feelings." When people turn and say "but it wasn't your fault," I think they are blocking your invitation to empathize ("hmm, this person feels bad because I feel bad?") and are attempting to make you feel disconnected, making it more difficult to free them (or for them to free themselves) from the interests of villains who inhabit their mind (unempathetic friends, parents, mentors, etc.). Edit: And "sorry to hear that" is literally like saying "I feel sorrow hearing that". Because people have had so little experience with a genuine, true "I'm sorry I did that to you; I feel sorrow for doing that to you," and so much more experience with being manipulated by those words, they perhaps disconnect and manipulate you in return. I think it's always important to look at the emotions your feeling as the result of another's action. If you feel anxious when they respond in that way, it's almost like they're attempting to unload the anxiety they associate with "sorry to hear that" by manipulating it unto you. In this sense they are re-creating a situation of trauma and normalizing it, because the possibility of having a "new" reaction to this same situation would shine a bright light of truth on their relationships. And it's quite sad and tragic, in my opinion. YES! That's a part of it. Despite of being an empirical person, I still wish the misfortune hadn't befallen certain people when they share their experiences with me. It could be that they have internalized voices that are comitted to self erasure. Hmm...not being used to being apologized to can play a big part as well. That's what I think sometimes. I'm apologizing on behalf of the circumstance or the person that has caused them harm because the actual circumstance or person can't or won't apologize to them. Could it be leftover programming from the other side of the equation: When you cause harm but didn't mean to? You accidently clobber someone in the head or whatever, and then you immediately recoil and apologize, "Sorry! (while also implying 'I didn't mean to or didn't do it on purpose!")" and the other person recognizes the error on your part and replies, "It's ok, I'm alright." relieving your guilt from the accident. So, socially we are programmed to say "Sorry" if we cause and respond "It's alright." if we are on the receiving end of a "Sorry". Similar to "Thanks!" -- "You're welcome." "No problem." or "Don't mention it." While learning Chinese I was drilled with: "I'm sorry." (dui bu qi) "It's OK" (me guan xi) to make them automatic responses. Hmm that's something that's off putting for me when someone says "oh it was alright." That's an interesting take as well, being used to automatic kind of responses due to accidental things. That's the problem though, if they talk about deep rooted stuff that happened to them and say "it's alright," it is downplaying what they've been through as if it's like you stubbed their toe by accident.
Recommended Posts