Songbirdo Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=OxiAikEk2vU Made my brain hurt... Some excerpts:Without God, morality is subjective. "God wills it because he is good." The process of evolution is just accidents of nature. Man kills child is the equivalent to a cat killing a mouse to Atheists. And lastly their perfectly reasoned argument for the moral proof of God: "If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist. Objective moral values and duties do exist. Therefore, God exists." Wonder how this would be received if it wasn't narrated in a British accent?
Marshall B Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 My brain hurts as well. Hitchens has some great debates online against a guy named frank turek who poses this question. Hitch destroys that silliness very quickly. I don't really even know how to counter it because I can't make any sense of it in the first place. I guess they are saying how can there be anything if there isn't a god. Everything comes back to how do we get something from nothing. How do we get morality from nothing. And fuck if I know but who cares......a man in the clouds/magic is not an answer.
J. D. Stembal Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Why can't we just let God die already? He's been in a coma for almost 500 years. If objective moral values exist, and that they are proof of God, why can't I shake hands with him?
WasatchMan Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Not much worse than the false dichotomy statists hold: "If the state doesn't exist, objective laws and obligations cannot exist. Objective laws and obligations do exist. Therefore the state needs to exist." 3
yagami Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Ok so what makes your decision to believe in one god over another god objective? If I believe in the Hindu god does that mean that that gods commandments are objectively good? And why are the commandments objective? You cant just claim because they are from god that means they are objective. 1
Marshall B Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Ok so what makes your decision to believe in one god over another god objective? If I believe in the Hindu god does that mean that that gods commandments are objectively good? And why are the commandments objective? You cant just claim because they are from god that means they are objective. Hilarious....Great point. So if the pink unicorn had a book of commands it would then be objective. Magic happened=objective Non answer= objective Flipflamshmam=objective
Livemike Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Either the way the universe is gives rise to objective moral values or it doesn't. If it does then it does whether God made the universe that way or not. If there is a God and the universe is such that it gives rise to moral values, then an identical universe that didn't have a God would give rise to the same objective moral values. If your "objective" moral values depend on God himself, then they're not objective unless you can confirm God's existence, which is impossible*. So they're not objective at all. Any true objective morality doesn't depend on God. * It is impossible to tell a very, very powerful and knowledgeable being from an omnipotent/omniscient one. Even if the "commands" "God" gives were valid, why would they depend on God's word to be valid? If their validity depends on what an intelligent being says about them then _they are not objective_. 1
Marshall B Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 So from that I thought of how my mother says the "those were different times" stuff when talking about the immortality of the old testament. Slavery, rape, murder, sacrifice, etc not being condemned was because people were different meaning that humanity(without God) has moved the needle? But she realizes and admits they are wrong in today's culture. So if we now get that slavery and rape are wrong and we know that had nothing to do with God well then couldn't we have figured out murder and theft and "coveting another mans wife" we're wrong as well? I'm sure somebody has said that more eloquently somewhere but seems like a good argument I've never heard.
Jer Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 Q: 30 sec in "if there is no god what basis remains for objective good or bad?" A: Universality "comments disabled" sounds like somebody interested in honest debate...
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