Daniel W. Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I am a college student in Alaska, and a program offered by the state rewards high-school students for being "smart" by paying them roughly $4500 a year while they are going to college (maxes at 4 years). I have received this money for one semester now, but I have never really felt good about it as I feel it is stealing. What are your guys thoughts on accepting government money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessionalTeabagger Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They already stole the money. They already stole the world you could have been living in. They owe you. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Take the money. You will be paying it back a hundred fold once you become a tax payer. Only caveat, you'll be paying it "back" to the state, not back to the people it was taken from. But the state has taken lots of money from your parents. This is by no means a philosophical consistent position, just so we're clear. It's just that by not taking this money, you make nobody's life easier. No tax slave will be beaten less if you don't take the money. Nothing good will come from not taking the money. However, if you choose to spend a single dime of it, you're stupid. Don't spend a single dime!. Finance your life by working part time like your colleagues do. Spend it on gold coins (bullion, not the rare collector type, I can't stress this enough). Don't be a lazy surfer dude. You'd be getting used to it and at a disadvantage later. Learn to be self-sufficient, don't get used to government hand outs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. D. Stembal Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What would you say if I told you that there was no money? Well, there was a check or digital amount transferred to your bank account. However, what does that money represent? It very likely represents a future debt that your children or grand children will be working to pay off. We will go to our graves still cleaning up the mess of socialized health care that the Baby Boomers helped create. What did my parents tell me when I got my first pay stub and asked what Social Security was? That's a government program to help older people when they retire. You won't be seeing any of that money back. (Currently, Boomers, like my parents, are drawing out more funds than they ever put in. It's a Ponzi scheme. My dad also figured out that if he had more children in his retirement, he gets substantially more money out of SS, so he divorced my mom and married his mistress, temporarily keeping my mom's state-funded health care plan through some sort of divorce loophole.) Everyone knows what is going on, but they are unable or unwilling to care about it or change it. Posing this question on the forums shows you are more thoughtful than most. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepin Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 So long as you aren't going to use your education to develop weapons or become a government worker, go ahead. A good rule to play by is "would this be a thing in a free society?" and if it is, just act like it is. In a free society, you'd likely receiving college funding if you were smart and capable. Now if you were going to become an IRS agent on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribuck Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 1. Take the money that is offered. 2. Make a standing promise to any peaceful person that you will personally refund their share. A peaceful person, in this context, is one who does not approve of the forceful collection of tax tributes. So, if there are one million taxpayers in your country, you will happily give them each one-millionth of the money you received (if they ask). Voila! You get money. People who disapprove of forceful taxation get a refund. People who approve of forceful taxation are happy for you to have the money. Everyone wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filip S Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I would take the money. Money that comes from the State is in a state of nature. It was stolen to begin with, and now exists in a general pool where everyone is taking whatever they can. In the words of Steve Miller: "go on, take the money and run!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedouin Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 2. Make a standing promise to any peaceful person that you will personally refund their share. A peaceful person, in this context, is one who does not approve of the forceful collection of tax tributes. So, if there are one million taxpayers in your country, you will happily give them each one-millionth of the money you received (if they ask). Voila! You get money. People who disapprove of forceful taxation get a refund. People who approve of forceful taxation are happy for you to have the money. Everyone wins. That's a neat idea actually. If it's 4.5k for maybe 3 years then that's 13,500 dollars and given he's in the US it'd be 0.0042 cents per person (or ~0.007 given not all people in US pay taxes) and much of that may have been funded by money which didn't at that point exist and hence only a fraction of that actually belonged to the refundee. If you wanted to be nice you could just buy them a lunch and be done with it. I'd say that's pretty plain sailing. Nice, and morally acceptable too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yagami Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I think there is a difference between accepting money from say a tax return and accepting money from a government program. In the case of the tax return it certainly is your money that you earned through your hard work. In the case of a government grant the amount of money you receive has absolutely nothing with how hard you worked to get that money. When I say how hard you worked im not referring to if you worked hard to get good grades. Im referring to how much value you bring to the world in exchange for money. Just like you bring a certain value to the world when you work and you get paid for that value. Because of this I would say it would be immoral to accept other peoples money for yourself. Maybe a very small portion of that money you will be receiving actually came directly from you the vast majority of the money did not come from you. Sometimes you cant avoid accepting government benefits like roads police ect. But in this case you would be choosing to take the money which puts this into a different moral category. I dont think the answer is as simple as accept the money because they stole from you first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 However, if you choose to spend a single dime of it, you're stupid. nonsense, use it wisely the same as any other money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertus Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Use it wisely, as in, don't spend it, save or invest it. Spend the money you earn on the job you'll be taking. Read my whole post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Use it wisely, as in, don't spend it, save or invest it. Spend the money you earn on the job you'll be taking. Read my whole post. Your suggestions are preferences without moral content so I don't think you should say he'd be stupid to do otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertus Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Your suggestions are preferences without moral content so I don't think you should say he'd be stupid to do otherwise Don't strawman me, bro. Unwise is not the same as stupid. If you want to correct me, don't make stuff up. That would be unwise. But to the point, even if my suggestions were moral in nature, are you suggesting it would then be OK to say he'd be stupid to do otherwise? Where is the logic in your comment? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Don't strawman me, bro. Unwise is not the same as stupid. If you want to correct me, don't make stuff up. That would be unwise. I quoted you. look 3 posts up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertus Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 You're right! I'm sorry. What was I thinking... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jprichardson Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I agree with most of what @yagami stated. I would add that it has little to do with value, but solely to do with the fact that the money was taken from society by coercion, since we know that's wrong by the NAP, you would be choosing to accept stolen money (a very small amount which originally belonged to you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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