co-worker against home school

[GasCap]

Hey guys,

 

I have recently been more open in discussion with my co workers about many aspects of my life. Because I recently had my 2nd baby. kids has been the main subject. When I told them that I am going to home school my kids, they are somewhat shocked and is actually convincing me not to do it b/c it will harm the child. They say that my kids are going to be socially deficient. They won't know how to talk to people or be functional in society later on in life. Pretty much by me home schooling them I am harming them. Just sharing my pain....

[Alan C.]

The idea that kids will become socially deficient if home schooled is a canard that people hear and repeat.

 

The irony is that kids who come out of government schools are often socially deficient, lack social grace and good communication skills, and can become dissociative and dysfunctional.

 

There are plenty of activities that you can involve your kids in so that they get plenty of interaction. I played soccer and was involved with Indian Guides. There are plenty of clubs and youth camps.

[GasCap]

 

 

Everyone I talked to about home school brought up socialization as the first and biggest point.

 

I have brought up points like

 

-being social isn't about knowing how to talk to your peers 5+/5- your age. It should range from age 0-90.

 

-expose my kids to different social, sports, arts, etc.. clubs like you mentioned 

 

maybe I am just not a good speaker/debater. I have went through 16+ years of school. You would think that I would be a good speaker.

[TheRobin]

As far as I know this has been debunked by studies. Iirc those studies even showed that it's the opposite and homeschooled children are more socially capable than their peers in public schools.

Imo, just ask people for the data to support their claims, see if they have any.

 

But a good argument in the absence of data is probably to just point out, that most of the time in public schools you're not even ALLOWED to talk, let alone have conversations or learn how to negotiate etc. It's all just do what you're told and don't annoy the teachers too much, which isn't really what one can reasonably call socialization. Let alone what happens outside the classroom with bullying and whatnot.

Ah, quick google search: that might help http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/13/home-schooling-socialization-not-problem/

[Pepin]

Granted that this is something most people aren't in favor of, I'd do a bunch of research and have a lot of links stored on your phone about it, especially if there are scientific studies. If they start disagreeing, tell them that you have done a lot of research and haven't found that be the case. Offer to send them some links for them to look over from places they find reputable. If they are open to evidence and you list some sources they find credible, they might start to question their belief.

 

It's a good way to find people who are open to the ideas, as well as a way to shut people up who have done no research.

 

Personally, I am pretty skeptical about most anything I hear second hand. If someone is trying to tell me about a study or some fact and I express skeptical, and they want me to check out some source I've never heard of, I tend to not look it up and assume its bullshit. Now if there is a really good argument behind it, I will probably look into it, even if it is from an obscure source,

[MRW]

Interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience on this topic.

 

I think a lot of the skepticism of homeschooling comes from the fact that many homeschoolers are evangelical or fundamentalist Christians. Have you explained that you are secular? You also said that they were critical about the issue of social ability. Like you mentioned, I think this can be handled with extracurricular involvement and exposure.

 

Have you shared other ideas and values that you have at the workplace? How has this been working out for you?

[RyanT]

In these sort of scenarios you have to ask ''What are the consequences of them accepting the truth?''

 

If they've kids and they're sending them to state school...pretty dire.

 

First and foremost they'd of course have to admit they'd been getting it wrong for X number of years and doing their kid's a great disservice in the process. Perhaps worse still, they'd then be morally obligated to actually do something about it! (Or else face the constant gnawing of their conscience) That's pretty heavy stuff?

 

Thus even something as benign you casually bringing up the idea that you're planning to home school your own kids provokes all this attack....

[tasmlab]

Hey guys,

 

I have recently been more open in discussion with my co workers about many aspects of my life. Because I recently had my 2nd baby. kids has been the main subject. When I told them that I am going to home school my kids, they are somewhat shocked and is actually convincing me not to do it b/c it will harm the child. They say that my kids are going to be socially deficient. They won't know how to talk to people or be functional in society later on in life. Pretty much by me home schooling them I am harming them. Just sharing my pain....

 

OK, so you're playing with live rounds here.  You actually have children.

 

As someone who took the step to unschool my three children last year (two of which were in PS) I strongly recommend over-researching this topic.  Read a bunch of books to get your arguements dead on solid.  Not just to debate your co-workers, but to feel confident your self.  Some good titles:

 - Gatto: Dumbing us down

 - Gatto: Weapons of Mass Instruction

 - Peter Gray: Free to learn

 - Lewllen: Teenage Liberation handbook

 - John Holt: Teach your own.

 

Also, check out the schoolsucksproject podcast.  It's amazing.  Molyneux is frequently referenced and a repeat guest.

 

It takes a while, especially if you were schooled yourself, but eventually you'll find the idea of letting the government take over your children repulsive and dangerous.

 

Also, people are terrified of being wrong about public schools.  There's too much at stake; either they went through them themselves or are putting their children in harms way.  Your not fighting their reasons, you're fighting their guilt and fear.

 

Keep on keeping on!

[williamsjar]

I'm in the same boat as you, Gascap. My son is 2 1/2 and we have either homeschool or a secular private school (if we can find one) on the table. The most common objection we get concerns social skills: "Homeschoolers seem to be from religious nut families or have behavior problems."

 

The other objection, from my parents who are both retired teachers (and to RyanT's point that they probably can't be critical of their own livelihood!) is "how can you teach your child with the same skill as a trained teacher?" My answer to that is that teaching ONE child (who you know and love) is vastly superior than an overwhelmed teacher surrounded by 30 kids.. most of whom have horrible home lives.

 

This article is available for .pdf download and goves over college admission officers' opinions about homeschoold candidates: http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ682479.pdf

 

One quote: "Approximately 56 percent of the admission officers expected homeschool graduates to be as

successful as traditional high school graduates, and nearly 22 percent expected them to be more

successful. Only two admission officers expected homeschooled graduates to be less successful

than traditional high school graduates. Ten (18 percent) admission officers did not respond."

[J. D. Stembal]

I'm in the same boat as you, Gascap. My son is 2 1/2 and we have either homeschool or a secular private school (if we can find one) on the table. The most common objection we get concerns social skills: "Homeschoolers seem to be from religious nut families or have behavior problems."

 

The other objection, from my parents who are both retired teachers (and to RyanT's point that they probably can't be critical of their own livelihood!) is "how can you teach your child with the same skill as a trained teacher?" My answer to that is that teaching ONE child (who you know and love) is vastly superior than an overwhelmed teacher surrounded by 30 kids.. most of whom have horrible home lives.

 

This article is available for .pdf download and goves over college admission officers' opinions about homeschoold candidates: http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ682479.pdf

 

One quote: "Approximately 56 percent of the admission officers expected homeschool graduates to be as

successful as traditional high school graduates, and nearly 22 percent expected them to be more

successful. Only two admission officers expected homeschooled graduates to be less successful

than traditional high school graduates. Ten (18 percent) admission officers did not respond."

 

If you are having these conversations with parents or parents to be, immediately flip the onus on them to provide proof that public schools are efficacious for child development and learning. Of course, the answer is that they rarely are.

 

I went through one of the top rated school districts in the U.S. and I developed few, if any, critical or worthwhile life skills there, or an ability to think for myself. Since I was very studious in the beginning, so therefore I was bullied incessantly until I stopped being studious. There were glimmers of hope and a few spectacular teachers, but at the end of the twelve years when I had the diploma in hand, I had to start all over again, and what value did I receive for my time there? I can read, add, subtract, multiply, divide and speak English. Couldn't I have learned all that in four years in the home without having to swallow the state propaganda along with it?

[firefop]

So my daughter recently turned 4, she's far far ahead of other children her age when it comes to communication. She has no problem walking up to anyone she happens to meet and striking up a conversation. Several weeks ago she asked me why most of the adults we see are always in a hurry. I explained to her that most people have jobs during the day, feel like they're behind, etc. So for the last few weeks she's been stopping people, introducing herself and asking them what their job is. 

 

We've spent a lot of time talking about the very rare occasions where someone is rude or not willing to talk to her... She's already learning to notice the broken people... 

 

That being said, she's voracious when it come to educating herself. She's not quite able to pickup a book and read it, but she's getting there. My wife and I are scrambling to sort out the home schooling thing since we don't want to send her into the mental mugging that is state schooling. Since she's socially fearless and curious now, I can't imagine that she'll somehow become socially deficient through being home schooled. Even if she becomes a 'social outcast' - I don't think she'll really be missing anything. The most broken people will simply avoid her because she'll scare them on some deep level and it will be that much easier for her to find those people who's are willing and able to connect with her. 

[williamsjar]

Maybe I can eventually start a new thread, but wondering about everyone's thoughts on pre-school for toddlers, not as a replacement for eventual home school, home tutoring, or whatever we decide to do, but as a supplement for my 2 1/2 year old. We don't live in a neighborhood with many children his age, and every time we visit family (he has a 5 year old and 2 3-year-old twin cousins) he just has an absolute blast playing with them. 

 

There is what seems to be a very nice private place close to us where parents can come with their children (if they choose) for two half-days a week or so and it sounds like they do some great things with the kids. Has anyone been in this situation?

[LovePrevails]

Hey guys,

 

I have recently been more open in discussion with my co workers about many aspects of my life. Because I recently had my 2nd baby. kids has been the main subject. When I told them that I am going to home school my kids, they are somewhat shocked and is actually convincing me not to do it b/c it will harm the child. They say that my kids are going to be socially deficient. They won't know how to talk to people or be functional in society later on in life. Pretty much by me home schooling them I am harming them. Just sharing my pain....

 

In what way does being ordered around all day and having to do what you are told when you're told make someone socially capable?

 

I have met so many parents who homeschooled who talk about how better adapted their children are better adapted, not susceptible to peer pressure, non competitive/combative nor approval seeking, and very well liked socially

Academic Performance

 

• The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (The public school average is the 50th percentile; scores range from 1 to 99.)

 

• Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.

 

• Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not related to their children’s academic achievement.

 

• Degree of state control and regulation of homeschooling is not related to academic achievement.

 

• Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.

 

• Homeschool students are increasingly being actively recruited by colleges

 

 

Social, Emotional, and Psychological Development

 

• The home-educated are doing well, typically above average, on measures of social, emotional, and psychological development. Research measures include peer interaction, self-concept, leadership skills, family cohesion, participation in community service, and self-esteem.

 

• Homeschool students are regularly engaged in social and educational activities outside their homes and with people other than their nuclear-family members. They are commonly involved in activities such as field trips, scouting, 4-H, political drives, church ministry, sports teams, and community volunteer work.

[bostonPro]

 

Academic Performance

 

• The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (The public school average is the 50th percentile; scores range from 1 to 99.)
• Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.
• Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not related to their children’s academic achievement.
• Degree of state control and regulation of homeschooling is not related to academic achievement.
• Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.
• Homeschool students are increasingly being actively recruited by colleges

 

Social, Emotional, and Psychological Development

 

• The home-educated are doing well, typically above average, on measures of social, emotional, and psychological development. Research measures include peer interaction, self-concept, leadership skills, family cohesion, participation in community service, and self-esteem.
• Homeschool students are regularly engaged in social and educational activities outside their homes and with people other than their nuclear-family members. They are commonly involved in activities such as field trips, scouting, 4-H, political drives, church ministry, sports teams, and community volunteer work.

 

 

LovePrevails, do you happen to have any links to sources for the above bullet points?  I would love to have them to refer to later.  Thanks.

[kcq]

you can always homeschool your kids while enrolling them in many clubs. One sad reason i hear people like about  sending their kids to school is to get "rid" of them, as in they can't keep up their sanity while their child annoys them at home.

 

I don't know how viable it is, but sending your kid to KG and informing his teachers that you take responsibility for his "education" and he's only there to see what groupwork and groupthink are. You tell your kid he's there to make buddies and have a "good" time. Make sure he practices self-discipline, honesty, and logic.

 

That way you can get a bit of both if you're doubting  your decision, and from KG you can hopefully come to a solid decision

[LovePrevails]

LovePrevails, do you happen to have any links to sources for the above bullet points?  I would love to have them to refer to later.  Thanks.

http://www.wisconsinchea.com/research-facts-on-homeschooling.html