TheW_nderer Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Tonight I'm chatting with a friend about self-knowledge and philosophy for the first time in our 7+ year friendship. For the past month or so she has been expressing dissatisfaction with her life, and even though she is doing great things career-wise, she says she is still unhappy and has anger issues that she can't seem to explain. When these things, come up, I tend to ask her questions about herself to see if I can help her pinpoint from where some of her dissatisfaction has arisen, and when I do, she can't seem to see the connections. A little background about my friend. She isn't the most "intellectual" person in the world, and though she has graduated college and is moving on to a successful career, she is the type of person who shares Cosmo or other horrendous relationship magazines on her FB page all of the time and still has problems understanding what love is other than "a feeling" or a guy taking you on romantic dates. She's had some really dramatic relationships, and her bf broke up with her about the same time mine did, so we've kind of been bonding over it. Our relationship has, admittedly been quite shallow in that she has never quite been self-reflective or able to carry on deep, intellectually stimulating conversations, and I feel a lot of it may have to do with her intelligence. But recently, I've began to sprinkle in more and more philosophy to test out the waters with her, to see if she's actually capable of the deep, stimulating conversations I've been lacking in nearly all of the relationships I have. So coming back to today. We got into a discussion about love and what it means, after talking about my ex and how I don't know if he ever actually "loved" me. This led me to ask her what she thought love was, and she replied that she didn't know, but mostly just a feeling. I told her I didn't think it was just a feeling, and she inquired about what I thought it was. Because I was pressed for time, I linked her to Molyneux podcast that discussed the difference between love and lust and told her to listen to it and tell me what she thought. When she saw the length of the video(approx. 40 mins) she complained that it was too long, and that she didn't "get the point". The caller was discussing some issues that were completely relevant to her situation, and addressed a lot of the questions she has brought up to me, yet, her response to me was that she was worried about me. How she thought that because of my breakup I am in a weak place and am easily brainwashed and needed to relax. Mind you, she hadn't really listened to the podcast, but had already made the judgement that it was wrong and that I was being brainwashed. I can't tell if the video was completely over her head and so she felt defensive, or if she really had objections to it. Which of course has led me to wonder something that I've wondered about the people around me since I was a child, "are some people incapable of deep-thought/reason with me because they are not as intelligent as I am or is it because they just don't want to hear it?" I've always encountered these types of objections from people who are very religious which I sometimes involuntary equate with lower intelligence, and have always gotten the "you're being brainwashed" or "you're so arrogant that you think you're smarter than us" arguments and so I have always wondered if that was the case. Is there a strong connection between intelligence and those who are able/willing to apply philosophy and strive for self-knowledge? It's often said that "stupid"(not calling my friend stupid) people think they know everything because they don't know what they don't know, which in my eyes has led people to downplay philosophy and self-knowledge because they don't know the boundaries of their knowledge and therefore feel that they have all of the answers to life's questions, having never inquired about them. One thing I've noticed about Stefan's callers is that they always seem very intelligent and he even comments that if people are interested in his show they must have relatively high IQs. Why is that? Is it a lost cause trying to reason with people, who may actually be incapable of reason? I'm sure this post sounds like the most, arrogant, narcissistic load of crap to some, but it is a genuine question that has been bothering me for a while. I really want to help my friend and I feel like she could benefit a lot from applying reason and striving for self-knowledge in tackling the issues she is facing, but I don't know how to go about doing it, or if it's possible at all. 3
Kevin Beal Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 If you edit your post, it has to go back through moderation. That's why your post is invisible. (In case you were wondering).
jpahmad Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Is there a strong connection between intelligence and those who are able/willing to apply philosophy and strive for self-knowledge? short answer to your question: Yes 1
TheW_nderer Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 short answer to your question: Yes So what do you think are the implications of this for those of us trying to spread philosophy?
shirgall Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 So what do you think are the implications of this for those of us trying to spread philosophy? As a matter of self-defense, you have to see how much trouble you're willing to tolerate from any relationship or interaction. If you know what that comfort level is going in, it makes it easier to manage. 1
TheW_nderer Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 As a matter of self-defense, you have to see how much trouble you're willing to tolerate from any relationship or interaction. If you know what that comfort level is going in, it makes it easier to manage. I don't really mean just in coping with relationships, but I guess my point it this: if their are intellectual restrictions that may hinder people from being capable of this lifestyle, then couldn't it be seen as a lost cause to attempt to spread it? If Stefan says that mostly people of higher intelligence are able to stand his show, doesn't that limit the cause quite a bit?
shirgall Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I don't really mean just in coping with relationships, but I guess my point it this: if their are intellectual restrictions that may hinder people from being capable of this lifestyle, then couldn't it be seen as a lost cause to attempt to spread it? If Stefan says that mostly people of higher intelligence are able to stand his show, doesn't that limit the cause quite a bit? I think there is some benefit to pointing out how people are inconsistent to see if they'll stop, but I think Stef's tactic of focusing on child abuse may eventually yield the best results.
TheW_nderer Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 I think there is some benefit to pointing out how people are inconsistent to see if they'll stop, but I think Stef's tactic of focusing on child abuse may eventually yield the best results. That makes sense, but one has to consider who will raise these children. I guess people like us will have to crank out absurd amounts of children in order to make any difference at all in the grand scheme of things. I know you're right, but it's just a bit discouraging.
J. D. Stembal Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I don't really mean just in coping with relationships, but I guess my point it this: if their are intellectual restrictions that may hinder people from being capable of this lifestyle, then couldn't it be seen as a lost cause to attempt to spread it? If Stefan says that mostly people of higher intelligence are able to stand his show, doesn't that limit the cause quite a bit? Realize that intelligent people are often encouraged to undergo a lot of post-graduate study and become lawyers, doctors, and scientists. There are intern programs that invite students and faculty to Washington D.C. to see how the sausages of legislature are made. These professionals, since they have much time and money invested in their area of study, are naturally tempted to become part of the new priestly class that cozies up to the teat of the state for privileges and power, at least according to Rothbard. Intelligent people often want to set themselves up as authorities, and derive great pride from occupying prestigious places of power within the government. What are lawyers, but students of the laws within their home state or jurisdiction? How would we possibly need most of them in a free society? Of course, they often also go on to work in the state legislatures, and then, if charismatic enough, move up to the federal level, kissing the Ring of Power in order to become Lords of the Sith. Doctors and medical researchers are heavily involved in lobbying for money to fund studies to try to prove this and that. They are often hand picked by politicians to speak about such things as national health and chair on committees that determine public health policy. By the way, what is the current state of our public health? The American Academy of Pediatrics finally reported in 2012 that the benefits of circumcision outweighed the risks. This statement came as circumcision rates have fallen to one of the lowest rates since being recorded. In 2007, the World Health Organization endorsed it as "an important intervention to reduce the risk of heterosexual HIV." Only a quarter of the male world population is circumcised. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/health/research/17circ.html?_r=4& Reasoning people should be more focused on the bottom two thirds of the IQ bell curve if they want to succeed in spreading philosophy. In some significant ways, they have the least to lose from opposing the violence of the state.
TheW_nderer Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 Reasoning people should be more focused on the bottom two thirds of the IQ bell curve if they want to succeed in spreading philosophy. In some significant ways, they have the least to lose from opposing the violence of the state. I'm starting to lean this way as well, but it might just be a lost cause if we are focusing on a demographic which is genetically hindered from being open to reason.
st434u Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 "are some people incapable of deep-thought/reason with me because they are not as intelligent as I am or is it because they just don't want to hear it?" Both. Is there a strong connection between intelligence and those who are able/willing to apply philosophy and strive for self-knowledge? Yes. Is it a lost cause trying to reason with people, who may actually be incapable of reason? It depends. If they really are, then yes. I guess people like us will have to crank out absurd amounts of children in order to make any difference at all in the grand scheme of things. Yes.
Bouncelot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I think it is more complex then intelligence. Although I think that is a factor. I have known some very smart/intelligent people who joined the mindless masses. It is incredibly frustrating when you meet one of these. I think on top of intelligence it takes the courage/stupidity to accept the truth at all costs. I think people are often brainwashed into accepting certain lies, religion & state-ism are two common ones. They take these things on "faith". They essentially build their whole identity on these things, so, when challenged, they get very defensive. To ask them to think is to ask them to tear their life to shreds, and question everything they have ever been told. I have witnessed a few people go through this, and have a friend going through it right now. Unlike your friend she her eyes have started to open. But like your friend, she her defenses are strong. She is fighting it. She will only talk about it on her own terms, in her own time, and also has refused to watch Stephan's videos. I think for some of us, its easier b/c our lives are already in shreds. We are more willing to accept arguments against a system that has abandons us.
TheW_nderer Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 I think for some of us, its easier b/c our lives are already in shreds. We are more willing to accept arguments against a system that has abandons us. I don't know if it's the degree of dissatisfaction that sets us apart, because everyone has screwed up lives to some degree or another, and most people are in a perpetual state of "screwed" because they continue to utilize the same cause of their problems as a solutions. I feel like people who do that seem to be those who are less intelligent. I don't know. I guess it's not really our job to change the world, but rather, to be the most virtuous people we can be; striving to have the happiest lives that we can.
Bouncelot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I see what you mean. That did kinda backfire on me... To me, the ones who don't are indeed more messed up, but they really do think they are "happy" overall; and have no idea why they have these buried anxieties, and other issues. To us we see the sources of their issues, we see their lives as in shreds, but they don't That is kinda what i was trying to express.
TheW_nderer Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 I see what you mean. That did kinda backfire on me... To me, the ones who don't are indeed more messed up, but they really do think they are "happy" overall; and have no idea why they have these buried anxieties, and other issues. To us we see the sources of their issues, we see their lives as in shreds, but they don't That is kinda what i was trying to express. I see what you mean. That did kinda backfire on me... To me, the ones who don't are indeed more messed up, but they really do think they are "happy" overall; and have no idea why they have these buried anxieties, and other issues. To us we see the sources of their issues, we see their lives as in shreds, but they don't That is kinda what i was trying to express. When people say ignorance is bliss this is the definition. But I don't think the ignorant can be truly happy, but that's just my opinion. We see the world as it is and try our best to conquer it through virtue and not denial, so when we succeed we are the one's who can feel true happiness and fulfillment because we are experiencing existence to the best of our ability and therefore care reap the reward to the degree that we are willing. I have and will continue to make so many mistakes, but if I deny reality, that is the ultimate loss because there's no where to go but in circles. I can be "happy" on the hamster wheel or I can hop off, realize I'm in a cage and try as hard as I can to get out, and when I do, feel amazing rewards in self-esteem, pride, self-knowledge and happiness. Oh, but the road is so long!
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