video game addiction

[utopian]

I have known for a while now that I have been addicted to video games for a long time. Video games give me a high I have not even found in drugs (which I stopped years ago) and can only compare it to the runner's high athletes get while doing their thing. I have often thought before that I need a more constant level of stimulation (in part due to child abuse as a kid) and video games are the only thing that can fulfill that. I used to do cage fighting, and it was maybe a level 8 or 9 out of 10 of excitement, while video games can provide a 7 at most.  However, I cant be getting punched in the face all the time, while video games I can do all day and are relatively cheap, even sometimes free.

 

And thats mainly been the problem, that when I try to quit playing video games, or severely reduce my playing, I cant find anything else to replace it. There is nothing else as constantly exciting, stimulating, and able to occupy my mind. There's just nothing there to replace it, and if I try, its as if there is a large gaping hole in my world.

 

Some might say, what is the problem. Well games do interfere with the necessities of my life. I am ok, but I have a potential I have proven to myself I am capable of, and I just don't bother doing it. I would rather play video games. I can't find the motivation to work and advance when I dont need to. And then, sitting there playing games, my body reminds me it is depressed, knowing it is wasting its life sitting in a chair, when it could and should be out changing the world. 

 

If anyone could help me figure this out I would really appreciate it.

[Drew.]

Hey man,

 

I just want to say, seeking out video games for comfort and resolving that is a very long process. It's something that I've been working on for a long time--and I've seen real improvement--but sometimes I still return to my old habits. I say this just to let you know that if you feel like you make progress, but then in some way return to your old habits not to be disappointed or discouraged. It's a journey. That said, I offer therapy services. If you're interested, I would like to help you find your way.

 

My ideal situation is not to replace the video games with another habit, but to meet the unmet childhood needs that so strongly compel me to video games in the first place. I've discovered that some of my major drives for video games are a need for some kind of companionship and control in my life, a need to feel like I've achieved something important, and as a means of passing time while I wait for something more important to come along. Maybe some of these things overlap with you and your experiences.

 

All that said, figuring this out isn't enough. A major part of the process is grieving those unmet needs, which is quite a bit more difficult to do. Having a therapist to help you along the way can provide so much benefit, and if you do not seek my services, I still encourage you to seek out someone else who can help you to heal.

[Anuojat]

Ive had to deal with this long time too... and personally i beat it with being consistent with one rule:

 

Am i ACTUALLY enjoying this? Am i actually having fun?

 

Because if its fun i am having ill play, turns out it was all sugar high fun not real psontenious fun

[Wuzzums]

You said you had several bad habits before getting into video games so I think you're on the right path. Kicking off a habit has to be done by replacing it with another habit, you probably know this far better than me so I don't think I can give you any pointers except for suggestions.

 

Have you tried going for a creative pursuit? Sculpting, writing, drawing, composing, etc, all qualify as being stimulating, exciting and require a great deal of mental effort. There's never a dull moment when you're creating something because there's no repetitive algorithm that you need to follow, every new creation (whatever it may be) is a new puzzle with a slew of new solutions AND it's never ending.

[TheFifthApe]

NOTHING is wrong with playing video games.

 

The issue here is the addiction, it is like the tail wagging the dog scenario. You now no longer play it because you want to, you play it because you have to. If you withdraw, you'll get withdrawal symptoms; such as depression. However, playing it also makes you depressed because you could be out changing the world, starting a business, or sleeping with hot women.

 

Get out a pencil and paper… (I am waiting) and then clear your mind. Write down a list of at least ten things that you love doing for it’s own sake (the activity is its own reward). The more things you write down the better, even it it’s just sitting on your ass eating ice cream.

 

Now, how many hours a day you spend playing video games? What are you avoiding? What historical significance does video games have on your life (i.e., the first time you started playing it, when you realized you were addicted, etc.)? What else could you be doing? Well you could be doing at least one thing on that list.

 

The next step is to supplement some of the countless of hours you waste away playing video games. For example, you will only play video games 95-90% as many hours as you did yesterday - for a week (10 hours of video games yesterday, only 9 hours today and everyday for the rest of the week). Start the exact second you finish reading this post. Supplement with anything on that list; (i.e., join a crossfit gym, jog 1 mile a day, read a book, listen to Stef’s podcast, and so on).

 

Each week cut it down at your own pace, roughly 8 hours one week, followed by 7 hours the next week. This will only work if you DO it. The sooner the better because you only have one chance at life and youth is such a valuable thing my friend.

 

Or you can just ignore everything I said and start a gaming channel.

 

I wish you all the best.

[sagiquarius]

Utopian:  Which video games do you play the most?

 

Why do you feel that spending your time playing these games is a waste?   I know exactly what you mean, because my partner and I went through the same thing.  In fact, I just experienced it again several weeks ago.

 

In fact, this is something that is on my podcast bucket list.  So, I'll be sure my GF and I sit down and create a podcast about this topic.

 

The you describe how you feel is pretty much how both of us felt.  Our particular game of choice was warcraft.  I don't even want to know how many hours I spent playing that game, nor the hours I spent trying to "replace" the game.  ug.

[ragdoll]

My cycle of playing games is probably similar to a recovering heroin addict that has struggled with his addiction throughout his entire adult life.

 

The only thing that really helped me quit playing video games for 16 hours a day was the thought "this is a waste of time" replaying in my head at a faster and faster rate as I played games over quite a few years.  That and the idea that I could just "play" life like I play games.  Understanding the concept of gamification helped a bit as well.

 

I've been successfully gaming for an hour or less a day (currently I don't play anything) for 2 years now so switching over to real life experience building is certainly possible.

[utopian]

 

My ideal situation is not to replace the video games with another habit, but to meet the unmet childhood needs that so strongly compel me to video games in the first place. I've discovered that some of my major drives for video games are a need for some kind of companionship and control in my life, a need to feel like I've achieved something important, and as a means of passing time while I wait for something more important to come along.

 

That sounds like it makes a lot of sense for my situation, but I have lost a lot of faith in therapy. I have been in an out of it almost my whole life, and it has rarely helped. Philosophy has helped me a lot more, thinking through things logically slow and steady. One of the reasons I am here.

Kicking off a habit has to be done by replacing it with another habit, you probably know this far better than me so I don't think I can give you any pointers except for suggestions.

 

Have you tried going for a creative pursuit? Sculpting, writing, drawing, composing, etc, all qualify as being stimulating, exciting and require a great deal of mental effort. There's never a dull moment when you're creating something because there's no repetitive algorithm that you need to follow, every new creation (whatever it may be) is a new puzzle with a slew of new solutions AND it's never ending.

 

 Yea I know I am gonna have to replace it with something, I just dont know what. I wish I could get that excited about work or writing or something lol. As far as creative things, I have a book I have been meaning to write, as I got certified at a computer networker at a school where I saw lots of new technologies, and I want to write a book about the future of living with technology. I have it all laid out in my head, I just need to sit there and do it, and then I sit to type, and oh hell Ill play a little games first... and then yea you see how it goes lol.

Get out a pencil and paper… (I am waiting) and then clear your mind. Write down a list of at least ten things that you love doing for it’s own sake (the activity is its own reward). The more things you write down the better, even it it’s just sitting on your ass eating ice cream.

Now, how many hours a day you spend playing video games? What are you avoiding? What historical significance does video games have on your life (i.e., the first time you started playing it, when you realized you were addicted, etc.)? What else could you be doing? Well you could be doing at least one thing on that list.

 

I was only able to come up with 8 things really for the list. Some of these things I do, like working out, but ya cant work out all day. Others are only weekly event things, or longer. One thing I do like is women (eheh, eheheh) but I got too many problems I am trying to work out to be ready for that. Nothing on my list, that I can do consistently, that I am not already doing.

 

Utopian:  Which video games do you play the most?

 

Why do you feel that spending your time playing these games is a waste?  

 

The you describe how you feel is pretty much how both of us felt.  Our particular game of choice was warcraft.  I don't even want to know how many hours I spent playing that game, nor the hours I spent trying to "replace" the game.  ug.

I play planetside 2, pretty much only now. Used to play Everquest and WoW.

 

I feel spending time doing these things is a waste, because I am an unusually smart guy, who has plans which have been proven to work, which could change the world for the betterment for humanity. I could reach my goals of fame and money and lots of good stuff if I just got off my ass and pursued it. I dont.

 

I am not sure if I envy you your gf that plays games or not, cause I think if I had a girl that played games thats all we would do lol. But then again, I certainly would never do anything else, which is the problem.

[Drew.]

 

 

 

That sounds like it makes a lot of sense for my situation, but I have lost a lot of faith in therapy. I have been in an out of it almost my whole life, and it has rarely helped. Philosophy has helped me a lot more, thinking through things logically slow and steady. One of the reasons I am here.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. It seems like you've had really bad experiences with therapy, and I would assume that it would have been a very frustrating process that made you feel helpless at times. I say that because, yeah, I've felt that way too about my self-work sometimes--today even. Philosophy paired with therapy has done wonders for me and really improved the quality of my life--and as an indirect result made my compulsions less intense and frequent. I wish you the best in your journey.

[TheFifthApe]

I was only able to come up with 8 things really for the list. Some of these things I do, like working out, but ya cant work out all day. Others are only weekly event things, or longer. One thing I do like is women (eheh, eheheh) but I got too many problems I am trying to work out to be ready for that. Nothing on my list, that I can do consistently, that I am not already doing.

 

Well have you started that gaming channel yet?

[surfingthoughts]

Would it be fair to say that you suffer with anxiety about day to day things and you use games to avoid doing things to avoid the feeling of anxiety?

 

Or/and

 

You are unhappy with your current situation and you use games to help you ignore this / to make you feel better about yourself.

 

Have you tried journaling, self knowledge is important in philosophy and this is a good route to better self knowledge.

 

As always I would recommend therapy but importantly with the right therapist.

[utopian]

 

Well have you started that gaming channel yet? 

Nnnuuuuuuuu!!! Lets end the Fed instead. Right after a match of Smash Bros.

 

 

Would it be fair to say that you suffer with anxiety about day to day things and you use games to avoid doing things to avoid the feeling of anxiety?

Or/and

You are unhappy with your current situation and you use games to help you ignore this / to make you feel better about yourself.

Have you tried journaling, self knowledge is important in philosophy and this is a good route to better self knowledge.

Yes, and yes, and yes. Actually one of the reasons I am here is because I want to start a philosophy journal, and have other thinkers reflect on it. I feel I have things fairly well thought through but I keep ending up back in the same circular rut, so its time for others input. 

[aviet]

When I was younger, I played quite a lot of computer games, not to the level of addiction, or even regularly. I also knew several people who were the same and one who was an addict. But now we are all in our late 20s, we barely play any games. When I play games now I will be bored of it within a few days, if not a few hours. So, I think it is something you will grow out of anyway. If not, you are in trouble.

I think you've already figured your situation out: you are addicted to a high; you don't have anything to replace it with; you think you have potential, but cannot motivate yourself to do anything. By posting here, it seems to me, you are looking for an external solution to your internal problems you already seem to have fleshed out. As if someone else can give you the boost to change your ways, when the only person who can change your ways is you.

I often hear with addiction, "I want to give up, but I can't." But if you actually do want to give something up, you will do it immediately. So currently, you do not want to give up playing video games.

Again, with video games, you are looking for an external source for comfort, excitement, or whatever combinations of things it is fulfilling you. The way I see your situation, you have to take control of yourself and build internal self-worth. You wont get that by playing games, or asking people to help you with your internal issues on a forum. The only way you can do that is by doing things. And its not easy. Its easier to play video games all day than do something constructive. You need to delete all your games, change the passwords and email on any gaming accounts you have so you cannot get into them and do something, such as one of the things you have mentioned above. And you need to keep at it. I was in a similar position to you not so long ago. I was what I can only describe as burned out after a very bad experience setting up a business with two people who turned out to be compulsive liars and essentially criminals. A series of bad events followed, during which I was living at home with my parents, doing what others would consider - a waste of time. What self-belief I had accumulated had gone as well as any motivation. I didn't think I could do anything without other people. It was only when I was essentially faced with death that I decided I would give myself ago. Others didn't believe in me and it took some time to get off the ground, but now I know I can do things on my own and that I have value, I don't need to look to others or things to have that.

So, I would say to you, just do it now. You won't get your rewards immediately, but if/when you do, they will be real rewards, not 1000XP, or a level up, which I hope you will be deleting from your computer and consciousness as you read.

[EveryVoluntaryistIsLemons]

I decided to give up video games just a few days ago. I had a serious video game addiction and it was interfering with my life (missing class, not doing work or studying despite exams coming up, etc.).

 

I realized that not only was I using the video games to escape from reality and the stress of the work that I have to do, but also that they provided me with long-term goals with visible progress, challenges, status relative to other players, stimulation/excitement, an outlet for creativity, implementing strategies, etc. (different things depending on the game).

 

It's hard to resist going back to them, but the best way to resist long-term is to find out what it is about the games that draws you to playing them, and then try to find more healthy ways to get those things in real life. Once you have those things, video games will no longer be addictive (most likely), and it will likely be okay to play them again - but for me, even though I currently have the desire to go back to playing games, I predict that, once I have other means of providing the things I get from games, I won't have any desire to play games again.

[ragdoll]

I just remembered something else that has helped me a ton the past year with staying away from games and embracing productivity:

 

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I have known for a while now that I have been addicted to video games for a long time. Video games give me a high I have not even found in drugs (which I stopped years ago) and can only compare it to the runner's high athletes get while doing their thing. I have often thought before that I need a more constant level of stimulation (in part due to child abuse as a kid) and video games are the only thing that can fulfill that. I used to do cage fighting, and it was maybe a level 8 or 9 out of 10 of excitement, while video games can provide a 7 at most.  However, I cant be getting punched in the face all the time, while video games I can do all day and are relatively cheap, even sometimes free.

 

And thats mainly been the problem, that when I try to quit playing video games, or severely reduce my playing, I cant find anything else to replace it. There is nothing else as constantly exciting, stimulating, and able to occupy my mind. There's just nothing there to replace it, and if I try, its as if there is a large gaping hole in my world.

 

Some might say, what is the problem. Well games do interfere with the necessities of my life. I am ok, but I have a potential I have proven to myself I am capable of, and I just don't bother doing it. I would rather play video games. I can't find the motivation to work and advance when I dont need to. And then, sitting there playing games, my body reminds me it is depressed, knowing it is wasting its life sitting in a chair, when it could and should be out changing the world. 

 

If anyone could help me figure this out I would really appreciate it.

 

The main theme I get from this post is that you're doing everything you can to avoid your emotions. The fact that you can't be constantly stimulated, I don't think (what do I know, this is just my opinion) is the issue. The issue is that you need to feel constantly stimulated. You need to have your adrenaline pumping in a fight, or escaping into another reality via a video game.

 

I find this "changing the world" thing curious. Given that your world is bleak and despairing when you're not being stimulated, what worth is it to change the world? What's the worth in doing something if you can't enjoy doing it? To me, it seems this "change the world" thing is just another outlet for you to find stimulation and avoid the real hard stuff..

 

And the real hard stuff is what's underlying the addictions and afflictions. It's what happens when the stimulation isn't there. You said yourself, your world feels empty. I'm sure that's just the surface of it. And I'm very sorry and empathetic that's the way it is. So in my completely humble opinion, I say fuck all the other stuff, it's not going to get you what you want - it's just going to delay the inevitable creeping of despair that you're trying to escape. There is no easy road to dealing with childhood trauma. I can't preach - I do a lot to avoid what I think is an inevitable challenge of mine, too. But I would suggest you find a way, the most comfortable way for you possible, to begin engaging these scary feelings you're running away from. I've began journaling and have had many confrontations with those feelings, and can honestly say I am better off for it. I'm scared to think where I would be if I ran away from them to a greater extent than I already have.

 

Just some ideas: you could watch 3 hours of Stef videos a day, you could meditate, you could do yoga, you could spend time reading and responding on the forums, you could spend even just a little time journaling - anything which will marginally ease you into coping with those emotions without going for the all-out stimulation, would be great steps towards healing from your trauma. 

 

And man, when you're healing from trauma, I think that's where the really great and creative philosophy comes out - because that's when you're living philosophy instead of just thinking about it. You're truly surmounting difficulty, you're truly engaging the world with free will (which I think video games try to replicate but can never light a candle to), you're truly becoming an example of an individual who stood tall against the gusts of a stormy anti-rational culture. And man, to become the person who lives against the grain, whether forgotten by history or not, I think that's something to die truly proud of. At least, that's how I try to motivate myself. I used to want to change the world, too - I still do and place no limits on what I will do in the future. But I also understand I had an extremely bad childhood, that all the odds were stacked against me, and that just by dealing with this and doing what 99.99% of the culture won't do (especially if I have children and raise them peacefully) makes me a hero in the making, and I don't think the day when I can honestly call myself a hero is that far off.

 

So I just thought I'd offer you that perspective, knowing how easy it is to say compared to do.. because childhood trauma is the toughest stuff to overcome.. but if you want a challenge like you said, there it is, right in front of you.

And by the way, I thought it was really brave of you to present your habits for us to critique, rather than be silent about them and not have to deal with input that may make you think about enacting difficult changes to your life.

[Tservitive]

I just remembered something else that has helped me a ton the past year with staying away from games and embracing productivity:

 

What podcast number was this?

[ragdoll]

What podcast number was this?

Sorry, I've only seen it on youtube.

 

The main theme I get from this post is that you're doing everything you can to avoid your emotions. The fact that you can't be constantly stimulated, I don't think (what do I know, this is just my opinion) is the issue. The issue is that you need to feel constantly stimulated. You need to have your adrenaline pumping in a fight, or escaping into another reality via a video game.

 

I find this "changing the world" thing curious. Given that your world is bleak and despairing when you're not being stimulated, what worth is it to change the world? What's the worth in doing something if you can't enjoy doing it? To me, it seems this "change the world" thing is just another outlet for you to find stimulation and avoid the real hard stuff..

 

And the real hard stuff is what's underlying the addictions and afflictions. It's what happens when the stimulation isn't there. You said yourself, your world feels empty. I'm sure that's just the surface of it. And I'm very sorry and empathetic that's the way it is. So in my completely humble opinion, I say fuck all the other stuff, it's not going to get you what you want - it's just going to delay the inevitable creeping of despair that you're trying to escape. There is no easy road to dealing with childhood trauma. I can't preach - I do a lot to avoid what I think is an inevitable challenge of mine, too. But I would suggest you find a way, the most comfortable way for you possible, to begin engaging these scary feelings you're running away from. I've began journaling and have had many confrontations with those feelings, and can honestly say I am better off for it. I'm scared to think where I would be if I ran away from them to a greater extent than I already have.

 

Just some ideas: you could watch 3 hours of Stef videos a day, you could meditate, you could do yoga, you could spend time reading and responding on the forums, you could spend even just a little time journaling - anything which will marginally ease you into coping with those emotions without going for the all-out stimulation, would be great steps towards healing from your trauma. 

 

And man, when you're healing from trauma, I think that's where the really great and creative philosophy comes out - because that's when you're living philosophy instead of just thinking about it. You're truly surmounting difficulty, you're truly engaging the world with free will (which I think video games try to replicate but can never light a candle to), you're truly becoming an example of an individual who stood tall against the gusts of a stormy anti-rational culture. And man, to become the person who lives against the grain, whether forgotten by history or not, I think that's something to die truly proud of. At least, that's how I try to motivate myself. I used to want to change the world, too - I still do and place no limits on what I will do in the future. But I also understand I had an extremely bad childhood, that all the odds were stacked against me, and that just by dealing with this and doing what 99.99% of the culture won't do (especially if I have children and raise them peacefully) makes me a hero in the making, and I don't think the day when I can honestly call myself a hero is that far off.

 

So I just thought I'd offer you that perspective, knowing how easy it is to say compared to do.. because childhood trauma is the toughest stuff to overcome.. but if you want a challenge like you said, there it is, right in front of you.

And by the way, I thought it was really brave of you to present your habits for us to critique, rather than be silent about them and not have to deal with input that may make you think about enacting difficult changes to your life.

Well said!

[utopian]

 

I just remembered something else that has helped me a ton the past year with staying away from games and embracing productivity:

 

That's too long for me right now (thats what she said) but I will try to watch it as soon as I can. I am also trying to catch up on Stef's recent shows as someone told me there is something helpful in there for me somewhere but he didnt remember exactly where. 

 

The main theme I get from this post is that you're doing everything you can to avoid your emotions. The fact that you can't be constantly stimulated, I don't think (what do I know, this is just my opinion) is the issue. The issue is that you need to feel constantly stimulated. You need to have your adrenaline pumping in a fight, or escaping into another reality via a video game.

 

I find this "changing the world" thing curious. Given that your world is bleak and despairing when you're not being stimulated, what worth is it to change the world? What's the worth in doing something if you can't enjoy doing it? To me, it seems this "change the world" thing is just another outlet for you to find stimulation and avoid the real hard stuff..

 

And the real hard stuff is what's underlying the addictions and afflictions. It's what happens when the stimulation isn't there. You said yourself, your world feels empty. I'm sure that's just the surface of it. And I'm very sorry and empathetic that's the way it is. So in my completely humble opinion, I say fuck all the other stuff, it's not going to get you what you want - it's just going to delay the inevitable creeping of despair that you're trying to escape. There is no easy road to dealing with childhood trauma. I can't preach - I do a lot to avoid what I think is an inevitable challenge of mine, too. But I would suggest you find a way, the most comfortable way for you possible, to begin engaging these scary feelings you're running away from. I've began journaling and have had many confrontations with those feelings, and can honestly say I am better off for it. I'm scared to think where I would be if I ran away from them to a greater extent than I already have.

 

Just some ideas: you could watch 3 hours of Stef videos a day, you could meditate, you could do yoga, you could spend time reading and responding on the forums, you could spend even just a little time journaling - anything which will marginally ease you into coping with those emotions without going for the all-out stimulation, would be great steps towards healing from your trauma. 

 

And man, when you're healing from trauma, I think that's where the really great and creative philosophy comes out - because that's when you're living philosophy instead of just thinking about it. You're truly surmounting difficulty, you're truly engaging the world with free will (which I think video games try to replicate but can never light a candle to), you're truly becoming an example of an individual who stood tall against the gusts of a stormy anti-rational culture. And man, to become the person who lives against the grain, whether forgotten by history or not, I think that's something to die truly proud of. At least, that's how I try to motivate myself. I used to want to change the world, too - I still do and place no limits on what I will do in the future. But I also understand I had an extremely bad childhood, that all the odds were stacked against me, and that just by dealing with this and doing what 99.99% of the culture won't do (especially if I have children and raise them peacefully) makes me a hero in the making, and I don't think the day when I can honestly call myself a hero is that far off.

 

So I just thought I'd offer you that perspective, knowing how easy it is to say compared to do.. because childhood trauma is the toughest stuff to overcome.. but if you want a challenge like you said, there it is, right in front of you.

And by the way, I thought it was really brave of you to present your habits for us to critique, rather than be silent about them and not have to deal with input that may make you think about enacting difficult changes to your life.

 

Yea I could see me avoiding my emotions, but I feel thats justified, as emotions have always just gotten in my way. Especially in today's society, if a man has emotions, he is barred from proceeding in whatever endeavor he pursues, from relationships to work. It is certainly one of my philosophical struggles that I loathe striving for a world that refuses to care about me, but if I do not work, I cant get myself ahead either. 

 

The worth of changing the world to me is many faceted. It would be a realization of my capacity. It would be a mark in history. It would be an altruistic contribution to the betterment of humanity. It is meaningful to me. My problem with it, my lack of motivation, is that most people in this world are not worth my caring for, and I tend to find MORE motivation in letting it kill itself off, even contributing to that end. It would be the hard stuff in itself if I did it. Perhaps that is also why I avoid it. 

 

I do plan to post many of my thoughts here on this forum, perhaps in journal form. I have come to many conclusions on my own that seem very logical, but keep me trapped in my current position. I think I wont get anywhere unless I start getting some feedback. 

 

Thank you for your complement, but I don't feel brave. I feel only philosophical, that I have sought, found and accepted the truth about myself, and have shared this truth without regard to societies judge-mentality.  It is an example in itself of the world being a despicable place, that it must be a brave thing to do to share such truths.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

"Especially in today's society, if a man has emotions, he is barred from proceeding in whatever endeavor he pursues, from relationships to work."

 

That is absolutely false. I mean, do you really believe this? You're commenting on the website of a show founded by an incredibly successful and productive man who emphasizes constantly the importance of being conscious of your emotions.

 

"It is certainly one of my philosophical struggles that I loathe striving for a world that refuses to care about me, but if I do not work, I cant get myself ahead either."

 

Well please excuse me if I'm wrong here, but this sounds incredibly vain. Why should the world care about you? I don't expect the world to care about me. Mostly, the world doesn't even know I exist. I'm just a number. And the vanity is sticking out like a sore thumb to me I think because I just listened to this excellent call-in today.

 

 

I also sense vanity in the rest of your post. You're letting the world kill itself off? Like, in other words, it's up to you whether the world dies or not?

 

So, yea, I'm sorry for wherever this comes from. I truly am. That's all I think there is for me to say, because I have a hard time connecting to your post, and you don't seem eager to want to begin connecting to your emotions, so I'm not sure what bits of perspective I can share or offer to you.

[ragdoll]

"Especially in today's society, if a man has emotions, he is barred from proceeding in whatever endeavor he pursues, from relationships to work."

 

That is absolutely false. I mean, do you really believe this? You're commenting on the website of a show founded by an incredibly successful and productive man who emphasizes constantly the importance of being conscious of your emotions.

 

"It is certainly one of my philosophical struggles that I loathe striving for a world that refuses to care about me, but if I do not work, I cant get myself ahead either."

 

Well please excuse me if I'm wrong here, but this sounds incredibly vain. Why should the world care about you? I don't expect the world to care about me. Mostly, the world doesn't even know I exist. I'm just a number. And the vanity is sticking out like a sore thumb to me I think because I just listened to this excellent call-in today.

 

 

I also sense vanity in the rest of your post. You're letting the world kill itself off? Like, in other words, it's up to you whether the world dies or not?

 

So, yea, I'm sorry for wherever this comes from. I truly am. That's all I think there is for me to say, because I have a hard time connecting to your post, and you don't seem eager to want to begin connecting to your emotions, so I'm not sure what bits of perspective I can share or offer to you.

Would +1 if I could.  This definitely seems on the money.

 

And I think the best motivation to make the world a better place for me is my children.  You not only can make it a better place for yourself but for your children and their children etc.

[utopian]

 

I just remembered something else that has helped me a ton the past year with staying away from games and embracing productivity:

 

Hmm... the slaves as children thing is interesting. I take it thats why Stef purveys the NAP for children?

I identify with this idea that my thoughts and preferences etc. are not taken into consideration. This seems to be in agreement with my resistance to do things I know I am capable of. I must say as the video goes on I feel him hitting some interesting true points. 

 

This goes however to prove my point that no the world does not care about me, and as such I refuse to care for it. Society does not care for your preferences as a person, you are just a cog in its machine. 

 

And now Stef is laying out the great secret, and I feel even more justified. I dont have to do anything. Sure there are consequences, but I have considered that. There seem to be more adverse complications TO my contributions than there are in my withdrawing them. I do whatever I want to do which will provide me possibilities I want, but I feel like I have eloquently figured out what the most worthwile ventures have been. 

 

And it seems like Stef's logic is not always applicable. I realize I don't have to sleep with women. I just want to. But if I want to sleep with women, I HAVE to talk to them. Theres no getting away from the have tos in a lot of situations. 

 

 

"Especially in today's society, if a man has emotions, he is barred from proceeding in whatever endeavor he pursues, from relationships to work."

 

That is absolutely false. I mean, do you really believe this? You're commenting on the website of a show founded by an incredibly successful and productive man who emphasizes constantly the importance of being conscious of your emotions.......................

 

............. Why should the world care about you? 

 

So besides proving my point yourself, as Stef and this thread has noticed, society does not care for men and treats them like foolish comedic reliefs good only for feminism's slavery under socialism. 

 

Sure Stef and this forum seems to be full of caring people, but people here are the exception, not the rule. 

 

Now this thing about the world not caring for me, if that is the rules we are going by, fine, I would follow that line of thought all the way down to I shouldnt care about you or anyone else if I want to kill you and take your stuff. Do we really need to go over all the reasons why this thread of logic is flawed? If humans are not striving to care for each other, we are not realizing the heights of human capacity, and are little more than savage monkeys. Unfortunately, the savage monkey thing seems to be too common in humanity for me to bother caring about it.

 

Excuse me for not watching the video right now, I just watched the other video and I need to get moving today. I will watch it later.

 

I also sense vanity in the rest of your post. You're letting the world kill itself off? Like, in other words, it's up to you whether the world dies or not?

 

I know you don't know me very well, and I have not posted so much to let you or others know what it is about me that is so capable, but yes, I am quite confident in my ability to change the world. If I just stopped procrastinating. Or moreso I feel, if I found adequate motivation to do it. 

 

But in what ways do you not see the world killing itself off? Wars? The Great Pacific Garbage Patch? Fujiyama? Overpopulation? I didn't have a hand in any of these things, humanity is doing it to itself all on its own. What I could have a hand in, is putting a stop to something of it. Not all of it, but a great contribution. And perhaps you and others don't believe I myself could contribute so much, but you know others out there could, say, Bill Gates. Its possible outside anyone's consideration of me. I am saying I could if I tried. I am here to sort out why I should try.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Utopian, I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing in my last post.. I know if someone were telling me I was vain, I would probably be pretty sensitive and might even self-attack, even if they weren't criticizing. And there is also the possibility that I'm wrong. But the language in your post definitely gave me that impression. What do you think?

 

And just to be clear, I think vanity is completely morally neutral. As long as your abiding by the NAP, then it's not an issue of morality. But I do think vanity, to whatever extent it exists in an individual, is often a symptom of child abuse and mistreatment (I'm sure Stef and others have gone into more detail about this). I know when I was growing up my mom's attention was ALWAYS on me. It felt like I was being watched all the time. And when I became a teenager, I started to have that feeling in public. I would feel very self-conscious about every one of my actions. I remember I would debate with myself whether I should go into Starbucks or not because I hated waiting in lines. I felt like I didn't know how to look just standing there. But in reality, people weren't paying as much attention to me as I was imagining, and I think instead I was suffering from a bit of vanity.. And I think it was caused by my mom, the only one who WOULD say something about the way I was standing or something stupid like that.

 

I don't think I was doing anything wrong at all by feeling that way. But I did say suffering for a reason... Vanity is quite a load to carry around.. And I'm concerned that if you think you're supposed to be saving the world in spite of hating it, you are creating a situation which will just drag you down over time and exhaust you.. And you will never get to the root emotions, and the benefits of a more humble existence. Humility can be SO relieving.. which is why I try hard to be humble! It is a much more enjoyable way of living in my opinion. And of course Stef is humble and has done incredible things. So it's not like humility is setting lower standards for yourself, or diminishing your potential.

 

*wrote this before your most recent post appeared*

[ragdoll]

You should definitely call-in to the show about this dude.

[utopian]

 

Utopian, I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing in my last post.. I know if someone were telling me I was vain, I would probably be pretty sensitive and might even self-attack, even if they weren't criticizing. And there is also the possibility that I'm wrong. But the language in your post definitely gave me that impression. What do you think?

 

Mm... I mean, what is vanity. Googling it brings up a definition of "excessive pride in or admiration of one's own appearance or achievements." There are things I admire about myself, to be sure, which I feel are warranted. I think if I am to see vanity in myself, it would be in the future I have not created yet. There are things I have run into that I thought I could do that I discovered I could not. There are also amazing things I have proven myself to be capable of. But if I see vanity in myself, I think it would be in the future I believe I am capable of building but have not yet done. I know its possible... Andrew Jackson had a life where he achieved a lot of these things. I am in love with building a story like that... in love with my own story that hasnt come to pass yet. And I feel like if I were to achieve these things, no one would really even appreciate it so why bother!

 

 

And just to be clear, I think vanity is completely morally neutral. As long as your abiding by the NAP, then it's not an issue of morality. But I do think vanity, to whatever extent it exists in an individual, is often a symptom of child abuse and mistreatment (I'm sure Stef and others have gone into more detail about this). I know when I was growing up my mom's attention was ALWAYS on me. It felt like I was being watched all the time. And when I became a teenager, I started to have that feeling in public. I would feel very self-conscious about every one of my actions. I remember I would debate with myself whether I should go into Starbucks or not because I hated waiting in lines. I felt like I didn't know how to look just standing there. But in reality, people weren't paying as much attention to me as I was imagining, and I think instead I was suffering from a bit of vanity.. And I think it was caused by my mom, the only one who WOULD say something about the way I was standing or something stupid like that.

 

I don't think I was doing anything wrong at all by feeling that way. But I did say suffering for a reason... Vanity is quite a load to carry around.. And I'm concerned that if you think you're supposed to be saving the world in spite of hating it, you are creating a situation which will just drag you down over time and exhaust you.. And you will never get to the root emotions, and the benefits of a more humble existence. Humility can be SO relieving.. which is why I try hard to be humble! It is a much more enjoyable way of living in my opinion. And of course Stef is humble and has done incredible things. So it's not like humility is setting lower standards for yourself, or diminishing your potential.

 

I also think vanity, and ego, can be fairly neutral. Not Hitler's kind of vanity lol. A symptom of child abuse? Perhaps. I didnt have it easy myself. Although you must admit, you and I and anyone else just on this forum must be a cut above the rest of most people, who usually don't have enough braincells to rub together to consider philosophy. In our capacity for philosophy we have power, and if we do not handle that power responsibly or morally, we might become a burden to humanity ourselves. Is it not then our duty as higher functioning humans to look after the rest of the race? 

 

And then after considering that, is the idea of living your life to the fullest. If you are capable of, oh I don't know, ending the Fed, and you never do it, well then its a life lived ironically. Pointlessly, perhaps. A delicious cake meant for eating, that never was. Is it not a philosophical endeavor to discover your capacity, and live it to the fullest? 

 

To be able to say, at the end of your life, " I was capable of helping a lot of people, and I did." Is a lot more fulfilling than saying at the end of your life " I was capable of helping a lot of people, but only helped a couple few." Now this humility thing seems... deceiving to me. Stef is capable of an awful lot as we have seen, and he has striven to make every moment count. 

 

I just spent ten minutes looking for a video for you from Stef but I couldnt find it. It was the one where he says "I was going to be god damned if I was going to let cancer strike me down in the prime of my life." He also says something about "all sex is glorious" and the gist of the speech is about living life to your fullest capacity. I am finding the edges of my capacity. I have already achieved amazing things. I am not quite sure where the end of my capacity is. One of the things I am speaking to is that I believe there is quite a lot I can achieve. It seems to be coming at the cost of my relationships with other humans however, and while I have lived my life mostly without them, I am starting to recognize what a loss that is. What I dont know is, is it a greater loss to realize my potential, or to go through life without relationships. 

 

 

You should definitely call-in to the show about this dude.

You should see my list of things I want to talk to Stef about

[ragdoll]

I don't think you can be vain about stuff you haven't done.

 

You saying that about Andrew Jackson and then saying that no one would appreciate you living a similar life seems like a self-defeating statement.  I also do not believe that your description of being "in love with building a story like that" could be true because you are not even convinced that you want to build a story like that.

 

It is certainly not your duty to save the world.  You may potentially choose to but being smart most definitely does not make you responsible for the world.

 

Philosophically, you cannot discover your potential because each time you achieve your potential you can then reach a higher potential.  The first caller on 2928 Irrational Optimism as Vanity covered that human condition a bit.

 

The Dunning-Kruger Effect is why Stefan's humility is almost certainly not "deceiving." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

 

And it hasn't been my experience that success drives away relationships but living life morally certainly does.

[utopian]

 

 

Im only 5 minutes into the video and I am liking it already. I think I might have known some of this stuff inherently, just not in so many words, that achievements only satisfy my craving for them for so long. 

But also I am sympathizing with what hes saying about Davinchi, I also often feel like I am not achieving my capacity.

Its interesting listening to the similarities between this guy and me. I also obviously have a high ACE score. Is that why I feel such a desire to fulfill myself but never can?

I am starting to wonder, is there some kind of correlation between child abuse and high IQ? 

 

 

Mmmmm.... this is a big one here for me, this idea of being punished for self ownership. That resonates with me highly. It still happens, and I still look to avoid responsibility as best I can, because I know there are consequences. Where was this video years ago lol?

 

But also, I am wondering about something here. Lets say I take full ownership of myself from here on out. Stef is talking about the phenomena of running into dysfunctional people, and it being my fault if I choose to accept dealing with them. Well shit, how many people in the world are acceptably functional? Am I expected to only ever wait until I find the proverbial unicorn? That's not practical, I need to make money and survive NOW, I cant wait for the perfect boss/job/whatever. 

 

Also, where does one draw the line in expecting others to own their own faults? If I am just standing around, and someone just walks up and punches me for no reason, am I supposed to take ownership of that?

 

The definition of vanity I was working with does not appear to be the definition discussed here.

 

So I guess I need to pursue a philosophy of owning myself.  

 

 

I don't think you can be vain about stuff you haven't done.

 

You saying that about Andrew Jackson and then saying that no one would appreciate you living a similar life seems like a self-defeating statement.  I also do not believe that your description of being "in love with building a story like that" could be true because you are not even convinced that you want to build a story like that.

 

It is certainly not your duty to save the world.  You may potentially choose to but being smart most definitely does not make you responsible for the world.

 

Philosophically, you cannot discover your potential because each time you achieve your potential you can then reach a higher potential.  The first caller on 2928 Irrational Optimism as Vanity covered that human condition a bit.

 

The Dunning-Kruger Effect is why Stefan's humility is almost certainly not "deceiving." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

 

And it hasn't been my experience that success drives away relationships but living life morally certainly does.

There is a lot to consider here... I will think on it. I am already picking up the pieces of my blown mind from Matt's video. But I will take a look at your link

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Awesome, man!

 

I definitely want to pick back up on this, but I can't seem to get my points out clearly enough just yet! (backspaced away from the page after I had a long post written.. I just can't recover from it )