Mandatory military service in Eastern Europe

[Myosotis]

Hello, 

 

Recently Eastern European country "Lithuania" pretty much accepted mandatory military service for people ages 19 to 38. They say that people will need to keep training for ~9 months. They are taking only males, and if you refuse to go you have pretty much signed contract with prison for 3 years. What are  your guys view on this ? Considering that there are USA and NATO troops stationed already in the country,

 

Information i was able to find in english regarding the subject: 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/24/uk-military-training-in-ukraine-symbolic-move-that-risks-russian-ire

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/24/lithuania-reinstate-compulsory-military-service

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/return-of-conscription-may-require-revisions-of-lithuanian-army-procurement-mp-says.d?id=67263854

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuania-to-reintroduce-military-conscription.d?id=67261216

 

EDIT: Ages were changed from 19-27 to 19-38. Which includes students who finish university.

 

EDIT: Some information regarding Lithuania-Russia relationships ( they have quite a history with them ).

 

 

 

"  In 1385, the Grand Duchy formed a dynastic union with Poland through the Union of Krewo. Later, the Union of Lublin (1569) created a Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth that lasted until 1795, when the last of thePartitions of Poland erased both Lithuania and Poland from the political map. Afterward, the Lithuanians lived under the rule of theRussian Empire until the 20th century. "

 

" In the summer of 1944, the Soviet Red Army reached eastern Lithuania.^[153] By July 1944, the area around Vilnius came under control of the Polish Resistance fighters of the Armia Krajowa, who also attempted a takeover of the German-held city during the ill-fated Operation Ostra Brama.^[167] The Red Army captured Vilnius with Polish help on 13 July.^[167] The Soviet Union re-occupied Lithuania and Joseph Stalin re-established the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1944 with its capital in Vilnius.^[167] The Soviets secured the passive agreement of the United States and Great Britain (seeYalta Conference and Potsdam Agreement) to this annexation. "

 

" The Soviet deportations from Lithuania between 1941 and 1952 resulted in the exile of tens of thousands of families to forced settlements in the Soviet Union, especially in Siberia and other remote parts of the country. "

 

" Until mid-1988, all political, economic, and cultural life was controlled by the Communist Party of Lithuania (CPL). Lithuanians as well as people in the other two Baltic republics distrusted the Soviet regime even more than people in other regions of the Soviet state, and they gave their own specific and active support to Mikhail Gorbachev's program of social and political reforms known as perestroika and glasnost. Under the leadership of intellectuals, the Reform Movement of Lithuania Sąjūdiswas formed in mid-1988, and it declared a program of democratic and national rights, winning nationwide popularity. "

 

" In early 1990, candidates by backed by Sąjūdis won the Lithuanian parliamentary elections.^[174] On March 11, 1990, theSupreme Soviet of the Lithuanian SSR proclaimed the Act of the Re-Establishment of the State of Lithuania. The Baltic republics were in the forefront of the struggle for independence, and Lithuania was the first of the Soviet republics to declare independence. "

 

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Lithuania

 

 

UPDATED: 2015.03.05 (New Information)

 

Some more info, if someone's interested: http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/us-commander-in-europe-putin-might-try-to-destabilize-a-nato-country.d?id=67357020 

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/polish-and-estonian-defence-chiefs-hail-lithuanias-move-to-reintroduce-conscription.d?id=67358072

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuanian-president-baltics-face-real-threat.d?id=67342590

 

I want to show this part exclusively : 

 

 

"Already we are in the front line, and the first stage of confrontation is taking place: I mean the informational war, propaganda and cyber attacks. So we are already under attack. Will it be extended to conventional confrontation? Nobody knows. But already now we need to defend ourselves from this aggressive behaviour," the Lithuanian president said.

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/defence-ministry-submits-draft-law-on-conscription-to-lithuanian-government.d?id=67331554

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuanian-government-backs-restoration-of-conscription.d?id=67340034

 

 

NEW CONTENT (2015.03.09) ---

 

PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK ( as there are a lot of BS written there >_> )

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/politics/mps-will-be-allowed-to-vote-freely-on-reintroduction-of-conscription.d?id=67385236

 

http://en.delfi.lt/eu/ep-president-calls-lithuanians-heroes-for-freedom-in-europe.d?id=67349384

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/politics/dozens-of-people-consciously-work-for-russian-propaganda-lithuanian-mp-says.d?id=67375348

Edited March 9, 2015 by Myosotis

[PatrickC]

Not like countries like Lithuania weren't losing enough of their youth due to economic reasons. They now add a further incentive to leave. I also notice it's a female president that instigated it. Oh the irony.

 

Having spent some time in Lithuania. There seems to be a national obsession with Russia invading them. That's amongst the citizens of course. The establishment probably know better, but seem to be taking advantage of that paranoid sentiment.

[Myosotis]

Not like countries like Lithuania weren't losing enough of their youth due to economic reasons. They now add a further incentive to leave. I also notice it's a female president that instigated it. Oh the irony.

 

Having spent some time in Lithuania. There seems to be a national obsession with Russia invading them. That's amongst the citizens of course. The establishment probably know better, but seem to be taking advantage of that paranoid sentiment.

It seems that this post aren't getting attention, but well, here comes update from what I read so far on the forums ( Lithuanian forums ).

 

Most men are against it, using arguments as : " What about my work ? About my company ? Will they pay for everything when I will be in the military ? " , there are some females who are posting in that forum as well, using arguments : "Finally, men will be more manly" , "They will become manly, not like now" , "they will become like real men" . Let me point that out, that this is coming from females ( females are not required to do military training ), then we have other males replying to these females , let me tell you, the following citation is from real people who were in the military : " Real men ? Not at all. The psychological and physical abused used there is tremendous. Back when I was stationed in a base, 3 people committed suicide because they could no longer keep up with it. It destroys people from inside then outside. Most people have hard time once they are back, they become abusive, is that someone you call a real man ?" then there are other comments from people: " So.. Why don't they send first of all their own kids (they mean the kids of politicians who are accepting it. ), they talk about freedom and what not, but in the end, we will see none of their kids there for sure. " , " Why should I fight for country that did nothing for me, except provide us with smallest wage possible, then talk shit about us, then talk about : millions are missing from the budget, fu**** them. " . So yeah, those are opinions of people who were discussing about the matter. I am very against it as well, I am not fond of my country, but I have no idea if I will be able to emigrate fast enough.. And whole process is confusing for me. I am not a hero, nor am I a war enthusiast, I don't want to put my life in danger for this. 

[PatrickC]

Yes I spoke flippantly in my earlier post. This is an 'effing' nightmare for young Lithuanian men.

 

I hope you can find a way to avoid this as best you can.

[FreedomPhilosophy]

The government must enslave young men otherwise another government might enslave us all. Sounds legit.

[Jer]

My American cab driver yesterday suggested that we need to re institute the draft to which I replied "Would you put people in prison who don't want to?"

"Nah, I don't want them sitting in jail, they can do hard labor. Two years in the military or 4 years on the chain gang"

[Myosotis]

The government must enslave young men otherwise another government might enslave us all. Sounds legit.

 

Yeah, it's really fridged up :C.

Yes I spoke flippantly in my earlier post. This is an 'effing' nightmare for young Lithuanian men.

 

I hope you can find a way to avoid this as best you can.

 

I was thinking of ways to avoid it as much as I can, even to the point I would get headaches. I can't think of a way.. Except if I finish highschool, go to university, then I might be able to avoid it, but... After University they might still call me. I was thinking about emigrating and declaring that I live in that country (the one i emigrated to), but my nationality would still be the same, so I don't think that it would save me.If I want to change nationality, I need to live at least 5 years in that particular country.. So that's a no go as well. i am still unsure about declaring my living place not as Lithuania. I have astigmatism, but I would still probably be required to join despite that.It's nerve-wrecking :C

 

My American cab driver yesterday suggested that we need to re institute the draft to which I replied "Would you put people in prison who don't want to?"

"Nah, I don't want them sitting in jail, they can do hard labor. Two years in the military or 4 years on the chain gang"

 

Don't worry, there are morons here as well. Our Prime minister said : "I agree with mandatory military training, but  I am really against women doing it as well, I don't mind if women can choose to do it or not. ", on the biggest forum ( of Lithuania ), I got into discussion, and said that Russia wouldn't attack us, and that they should stop believing everything they are told. I was called : "moron", "russian", "idiot", "traitor", well, I was labeled as traitor of my country, there were like 3 other people in that thread who agreed with me, others didn't, haha, that's sad. According to research I read recently, that research counted how much time roughly it would take for russia to overtake country (I know that it won't happen, but research was quite interesting. ) roughly 6 hours with the current military, and once Lithuania will finish it's military service and will have a bit bigger army, it would take roughly 72 hours to overtake country, now.. It would take roughly 72 hours for NATO to arrive as well, which means, that Lithuania's military would be pretty much wiped out.. Great, right ? haha... 

 

Some more info, if someone's interested: http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/us-commander-in-europe-putin-might-try-to-destabilize-a-nato-country.d?id=67357020 

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/polish-and-estonian-defence-chiefs-hail-lithuanias-move-to-reintroduce-conscription.d?id=67358072

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuanian-president-baltics-face-real-threat.d?id=67342590

 

I want to show this part exclusively : 

 

 

"Already we are in the front line, and the first stage of confrontation is taking place: I mean the informational war, propaganda and cyber attacks. So we are already under attack. Will it be extended to conventional confrontation? Nobody knows. But already now we need to defend ourselves from this aggressive behaviour," the Lithuanian president said.

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/defence-ministry-submits-draft-law-on-conscription-to-lithuanian-government.d?id=67331554

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuanian-government-backs-restoration-of-conscription.d?id=67340034

 

I am not sure if anyone's interested in this small country and stupid things it decides to do ^^, but if you do, please give me your opinion

[PatrickC]

How did this thread become mine? What happened to the chap that initiated the thread?

 

As for women not doing it. Well, I don't see much difference. If women want equality, then grab that gun sister. I'll be the last one white knighting them on this issue, in deference to men. They're fair game as the rest of us.

 

Personally I would emigrate. If you're Lithuanian, then move to Britain. Might as well take advantage of the EU polit bureau. 5 years will drift by pretty quick.

 

Russia is like our ISIS for Lithuania. Just another way to scare the slaves into contrition.

[Myosotis]

How did this thread become mine? What happened to the chap that initiated the thread?

 

As for women not doing it. Well, I don't see much difference. If women want equality, then grab that gun sister. I'll be the last one white knighting them on this issue, in defernce to men. They're fair game as the rest of us.

 

Personally I would emigrate. If you're Lithuanian, then move to Britain. Might as well take advantage of the EU polit bureau. 5 years will drift by pretty quick.

 

Russia is like our ISIS for Lithuania. Just another way to scare the slaves into contrition.

I have no idea as well, maybe I broke some rules ? I am not sure either, haha . 

 

Well yeah, as far as I am concerned, only Norway have mandatory training which requires everyone to do it ( sorry for repeating myself, if I stated that before ).

 

Yes, I was thinking about emigrating. Emigrating would be easy, but I can't change my nationality.. So they would still require me to do the training. Which I am against. This law should only be in effect for 5 years. I wanted to leave my country for a few years now, so it's not like it's a sudden decision for me. 

 

Yeah, Lithuanian President is doing more harm than good in this situation, by saying that russians are attacking already ( cyber wars, propaganda etc.), thus spreading awareness and panic to other people. What are your view on Lithuanian ministers for agreeing with it, and saying that government officials shouldn't do the training, whilst  Lithuanian president states in her speech : "We are all lithuanians, it is our duty to protect our country."  She says. I can't even listen to my extended and immediate family when they start talking about Russia and wars.. They state: Russians will attack! .. I of course deny it. Not to mention the propaganda Lithuanian students get in school, at least in my school, my school's history teacher almost every class we have, he manages to put in his speech somehow that russia is awful and so on, whilst not a single word about how bad USA and EU are.. He even said that those who wouldn't join the army aren't good people.. he said : "We will all die eventually, dying for your country, protecting it, is priceless!" ... I can't translate it well, but what he meant by saying it, is that you would be part of the history, part of the country, no one would forget and other bs like that.. Tell me your opinion on that as well! I am very happy that someone's interested !

[Myosotis]

NEW CONTENT (2015.03.09) ---

 

PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK ( as there are a lot of BS written there >_> )

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/politics/mps-will-be-allowed-to-vote-freely-on-reintroduction-of-conscription.d?id=67385236

 

http://en.delfi.lt/eu/ep-president-calls-lithuanians-heroes-for-freedom-in-europe.d?id=67349384

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/politics/dozens-of-people-consciously-work-for-russian-propaganda-lithuanian-mp-says.d?id=67375348

[PatrickC]

I can't translate it well, but what he meant by saying it, is that you would be part of the history, part of the country, no one would forget and other bs like that.. Tell me your opinion on that as well! I am very happy that someone's interested !

 

Well this is the usual BS spouted by those that will never be expected to take up arms. I'm assuming that this teacher is in later middle age and most unlikely to ever be called up to fight in any war. So it's just a case of him offsetting the costs of war onto the young. Something you can easily do when you're not actually paying the cost.

[Myosotis]

Well this is the usual BS spouted by those that will never be expected to take up arms. I'm assuming that this teacher is in later middle age and most unlikely to ever be called up to fight in any war. So it's just a case of him offsetting the costs of war onto the young. Something you can easily do when you're not actually paying the cost.

 

Exactly, I am not sure his exact age, but he's definitely above military training age. So he definitely won't need to do any training.

[Myosotis]

Hello, Small update, they finally completely accepted mandatory military service. 

 

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuanian-parliament-votes-overwhelmingly-in-favour-of-restoring-conscription.d?id=67475254

 

Only 3 were against it..

 

http://www.delfi.lt/video/aktualijos/delfi_en/120s-searches-in-pro-russian-groups-and-major-show-of-military-might.d?id=67483070

 

http://en.delfi.lt/eu/lithuanian-presidents-adviser-eu-should-avoid-giving-impression-of-retreat-under-russian-pressure.d?id=67450446

 

http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/lithuanian-parliament-speaker-asked-to-send-weapons-during-visit-in-ukraine.d?id=67465070

 

Now that this got accepted, I need to find a way to leave the country, or how to avoid it..

[Pendrokar]

Reporting on the situation of Lithuania's northern neighbor Latvia, as I am a citizen of it and living in the capital city.

The levels of paranoia in the Latvian population are high. I also believe it is paranoia because Russia would not dare to attack a NATO member. People are still paranoid about it because they do not believe NATO would keep their agreement, while not realizing that most smaller member nations of NATO would leave the alliance if that happened. Why pay them, if they wouldn't do their job?

There are no considerations for a military drawn only a plan to increase the amount of soldiers. Probably by increasing wages for soldiers.

Russia would fail if they tried the same tactics as in Eastern Ukraine, ~30% population of Latvia are ethnically Russian, while 40% of those Russians are located in the capital city. While the eastern part of Latvia consists of Latgalians, which might want independence, there is no chance they would work with Russia to achieve it.

That doesn't mean I am not getting worried about the prospect of a war between NATO and Russia. I feel the tensions will only rise. Historically plenty of countries went to war when they were greatly in debt. In truth, I was interested in Nazi Germany supposed economic miracle until I found out it was done by getting into debt with the only way to get rid of it by conquering other nations and stealing their wealth. I see no reason for USA to become an exception.

Worst thoughts are the Baltics being involved in a nuclear war . Russia would lose in a war with NATO. So what would leaders termed as "war criminals" do? Last resort to contain their power, nuclear weapons. Just like Assad in Syria is not giving up, because they will do anything to keep their power and therefore survive.

[PatrickC]

14 Powerful Portraits Of Men Reacting To New Mandatory Army Draft In Lithuania

 

http://www.boredpanda.com/army-men-portraits-lithuanian-draft-conscription-neringa-rekasiute-beata-tiskevic-hasanova/

[babauzhis]

 

14 Powerful Portraits Of Men Reacting To New Mandatory Army Draft In Lithuania

 

http://www.boredpanda.com/army-men-portraits-lithuanian-draft-conscription-neringa-rekasiute-beata-tiskevic-hasanova/

 

These pictures are a joke here right now and pretty much anyone who opposes draft is a crybaby. Facebook is full of shit like this https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204550078735237&set=a.1091725696645.2013681.1331607874&type=1&theater (it says broken nail)..

My own father is very concerned that Russia will attack Lithuania and NATO will do nothing, yet he thinks it would be very good for me to join the military.

I'm on a draft list aswell and I gotta say being on a receiving end of shit like this is an eye opener. I'm done with making excuses for people promoting state violence. This whole thing makes me literally sick.

[Filip]

A big reason for me moving from Romania to the UK was hearing these news. I think the risks of living in Eastern Europe, especially for young men, has increased significantly. Be it Russia or your own masters, there's just no safety from the power of the state.

 

Massive sympathies to the men facing the draft in Lithuania. It is a vile and sickening situation.

[Jot]

A big reason for me moving from Romania to the UK was hearing these news. I think the risks of living in Eastern Europe, especially for young men, has increased significantly. Be it Russia or your own masters, there's just no safety from the power of the state.

 

Massive sympathies to the men facing the draft in Lithuania. It is a vile and sickening situation.

Toți plecați ;(

[AccuTron]

 

Personally I would emigrate. If you're Lithuanian, then move to Britain. Might as well take advantage of the EU polit bureau. 5 years will drift by pretty quick.

Being non-muslim or at least not middle eastern or north african, you'd probably get a sponsor.

Your point about 6 or 72 hours is important.  In both cases, it's like stopping a river by putting your hand in it.  As to NATO arriving, it begs a whole range of questions.  But really, if Russia takes over, it won't be military, it will be political.  In my limited knowledge, I'd assume increasing the percentage of Russian speaking portions of the population would be the way to do this.  If the political suddenly has the right people to ask for Russian tanks, NATO won't have a political leg to stand on, and becomes moot.  

 

In the European breakout of WW2, Germany overran the small countries.  But Germany at that time was relatively weak, and the Allies made key blunders.  It was not a foregone conclusion.  But Germany in 1944 could easily trounce anyone in front of them...unless Russian.  Back to square one.

 

How would the Original Poster describe the situation in Lithuania re Russian influence in social/political/language/culture?