PatrickC Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 For those of you that aren't aware the Philosophy Film Club (PFC) had a a listener hangout the other week which you can listen to below. We also have a live stream Afterthoughts show this coming Saturday, where the hosts and one caller get to put their final thoughts on the movie. That show will commence at 3 pm (CST). Details available in this thread. https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41977-fdr-film-club/page-2?hl=+fdr%20+film%20+club 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autowagon Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 defense is not violence. those that seek freedom killing those who are so inured (not inert) to the system that they will fight to protect it is not violence, it is not the moral low ground. they are not violating anyone by trying to escape, they are being violated while trying to escape and defending themselves. The matrix is culture, and the inured that put on a guise of an agent of the system not ironically with a suit and tie on, willing to kill them for the 'good system' that they're slaves of means they retain the higher moral ground. they are not violent, but defensive.It's like if you woke up in North Korea, and if you are found you are going to be prevented from going home and either killed or thrown in prison. Are you commiting violence when people start pointing at you and chasing you and shooting at you, if you do anything to avoid capture including shooting people that are shooting at you or trying to expose you to others shooting at you?The question is should they be going into the Matrix or N. Korea in the first place. Are they in the moral right to convince this separate culture that they are slaves? We know that most of them that go there were born there cause they have the plugs.The matrix is a culture that kills anyone that knows they are slaves or that knows enough to threaten the power structure, that the machines are in control. The occult is the machines, the classified agents. So if that culture fights to protect itself. Each slave is a possible agent of the culture. And the Matrix Culture is not innocent to violate individuals because they 'know too much'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickC Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 I can see how it looks that way, except as you point out they don't have to keep re-entering the Matrix, which puts them at high risk of being killed. This risk then puts them in the position of killing many innocents in their struggle to free Morpheus. That said the risk is still apparent even outside of the Matrix with the ever present sentinel threat. But one has to assume that Zion is a place of relative safety. I see the movie more as a metaphor, that these threats are mostly in the mind of the individual, but that the consequences are real. I will extrapolate further in Saturday's show. But thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncapFTW Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It seems to me that their first choice in how to solve any problem is to use violence. They use the memory download thing to learn to fight, not even getting lessons like "helicopter piloting" and "lock picking" until they are needed. Neo downloaded data for 10 hours straight in the first movie, so we know they can handle it. So why not learn nonviolent ways to solve their problems, or at least less violent ways, even if it's just in their free time? They are all hackers. Could they not hack the matrix, or at the very least, the computers in the matrix? Add propaganda or Advanced machines? Shut down powerplants? Disrupt the matrix? Create their own AI helpers, like the woman in the red dress, the horse in the Animatrix, or other NPCs? You shouldn't even need to enter the matrix for this stuff. Surely there are ways to show the people that the world they are living in isn't real, something Neo says he's going to do at the end of the first movie, so why not do it? And if the Matrix is an allegory for government and religious control (at least in part), why do they run for government/Zion and Religion/Neo worship? It seems they freed themselves from one Matrix to be trapped in another. Maybe Neo isn't the only one with machine programming in their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autowagon Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think that the arguement could be made that they are invaders, hacking their way in, to another culture (matrix). Then it becomes much more realistic and difficult to determine who is attacking who? Who started it? Are the machines trying to stop the invaders messing with their system by drilling to Zion, or are the hackers trying to stop the Machines from destroying Zion. Assess whether either side's end goal is nonviolent assimilation. Two separate cultures unwilling to coexist and using force to subjugate the other. Morpheus seeking freedom from the rules of the matrix culture for the matrix people, and the machines seeking the freedom to basically not tell people they are being exploited, because some other culture says so. (Like going to Iraq and telling people to quit joining military forces and don't be muslim.) The people from Zion give a choice (the red or blue pill, or is it...) while the Matrix gives no choice of their culture. I did think it was interesting the other day (i just happened to be writing a bunch of quotes from the Matrix, circumstancially to spotting this thread) I noticed that Neo was, in one life 'a program writer for a respectable software company.' He was working for the man, the machines I mean, and in another 'a hacker guilty of virtually every computer crime we have a law for.' So even when he was within the culture that enslaved him he was being exploited as well as considered a terrorist in that culture. So in a sense Neo was outside the cultural bounds to begin with and walked the line of a moral high or low ground. He was in forced servitude for the benifit of his culture against individual freedom, and trying to circumvent his own contribution like Snowden. The typical 'use of force' backfiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickC Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Afterthoughts show starts in under an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickC Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Bumping the Afterthoughts show (above).. If you enjoy the show you can join our Facebook group below: https://www.facebook.com/groups/philosophyfilmclub/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autowagon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I just watched "The Cube" again the other night. That could be a good one to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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