J-William Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 So it's obvious that the prison system in the US is awful and counter productive, but I found this article putting forward a case that prison for women is uniquely awful because of "hatred for women". https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/20/ny-illegally-shackling-pregnant-incarcerated-women/ "But the fact that many prison officials maintain the idea that it is okay to shackle pregnant women, speaks to a broader hatred and lack of compassion for women generally." I don't see any compassion for men, rape is seen as an added bonus punishment for men. At least there are laws attempting to make life easier for pregnant women in prison. I see only compassion for those poor benighted women who shouldn't be in jail anyway, and no compassion for men. If you want to argue that women prisons are bad because men hate women and don't jump to their defense, then just show me one woman who would rather have the conditions in a men's prison. And the massive numbers of nonviolent female offenders locked up for years.
PatrickC Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 I'm beginning to have a much greater loathing for white knights. Much more so than feminists these days. The enforcers and the enablers.
Devon Gibbons Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 "But the fact that many prison officials maintain the idea that it is okay to shackle pregnant women, speaks to a broader hatred and lack of compassion for women generally." No, it speaks to the broader hatred and lack of compassion for prison officials. That's called going too broad. Ah-heh.... O. Cliche? I agree with this author though, I don't think other people should restrain women, I think that women should restrain themselves. Because it's the initiation of force, unless it's self defense... Wonder how many hormone bathed pregnant women who are imprisoned are on drugs when incarcerated. A woman who is pregnant has a duty to protect her unborn child. If she acts in a way that could result in self-defense retaliation from others, that is potential harm that she brings about to her own child. I understand the immorality of it, though, if she weren't the initiator of force. RE White knights though, I was watching a movie from my childhood yesterday and I saw this clip in it. Thought immediately "hegelian dialectic" lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtHmh0x_czo I'm beginning to have a much greater loathing for white knights. Yeah, Hercules aint no hero to me no more.
PatrickC Posted February 28, 2015 Posted February 28, 2015 I can't say I saw any evidence in the article to suggest that the author did not have compassion for the plight of incarcerated men. Obviously the rampant violence and rape in mens prisons is also cruel and unusual. One does not detract from the other. I seriously doubt Juan Thompson from Brooklyn who is writing about the plight of women in prison would be against improving conditions for men in prison as well. I think this is certainly how most women can experience white knights. However, it isn't what most men experience, even the white knights themselves from other white knights. I recognise that the above is not an argument as such. But it is based upon considerable experience of how men will often gladly throw their fellow men under the bus, in their pursuit of or validation from other women.
J. D. Stembal Posted March 1, 2015 Posted March 1, 2015 Two years ago I gave birth in a very well respected hospital in NYC and even I didn't have a particularly good experience. I can't imagine being fucking shackled during active labor. Or after a c section. Or during that final waddling, uncomfortable trimester. It seems like cruel and unusual punishment. Pure fucking torture. To shackle a pregnant woman most definitely shows a lack of compassion. That being said, its silly to suggest that these problems within the prison institution arise "because men hate women". Some people are haters and some are lovers and most are somewhere in between. Haters just tend towards those sort of positions where they have power over other people. There are plenty of men out there who love women. They probably don't work in the prison maternity ward though. As for the article's final point that pregnant women don't belong in jail? Uhm, if a pregnant woman killed someone you loved, you'd want her to go to jail. Pregnant or no. Or at least be in some sort of holding facility until after she gives birth. Creating life doesn't give you a free pass to end someone else's. I can't say I saw any evidence in the article to suggest that the author did not have compassion for the plight of incarcerated men. Obviously the rampant violence and rape in mens prisons is also cruel and unusual. One does not detract from the other. I seriously doubt Juan Thompson from Brooklyn who is writing about the plight of women in prison would be against improving conditions for men in prison as well. I would like to point out that shackling anyone belies a lack of compassion in the captors. It is unfortunate that you had a bad experience giving birth in a hospital. Why should a bastion of disease be the first place a child experiences outside the womb? Perhaps look into home birth if you decide to have another child. It is much healthier for you and the baby.
PatrickC Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 @patrickc - I understand what you are saying but I still don't see male prisoners being thrown under the bus here. Well, it's the fact we have a guy that wants to concentrate on the limited amount of exposure to prison life that women have and sees a womens comfort as more important than men by virtue of not mentioning the male experience. Men I might add that outnumber women in prison by a huge amount and more often than not have to experience rape at unprecidented levels. Where is the love, which I say figuratively. Women already experience prison life a whole lot better than men do. White knights and their ilk make sure they do.
J. D. Stembal Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Honestly I really don't understand why so many people wave the home birth flag so high. Considering that I was genitally mutilated at a hospital by a doctor, it's not difficult to understand my perspective. Maternity wards in hospitals also push other Medieval practices, such as: Prescription Drugs Immunizations Infant Formula Caesarean Sections Low-Fat Nutritional Advice In addition to the above, they are also hotbeds of disease. As of 2007, two million patients were infected per year, and ninety thousand of them died. http://www.hospitalinfection.org/press/010107aarp.htm Having a home birth doesn't mean you wing it with a medical text book. You hire a professional midwife. 1
J. D. Stembal Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 I also am anti-genital mutilation, so I did not let anyone cut anything off my son's penis after he was born. I want to hug you. That is so wonderful for your son! I used to joke about wanting my foreskin reattached when I was younger, but I have since realized exactly what was taken from me - my sexual enjoyment. Sex has often been unfeeling for me, quite literally. The nerves in my penis will go completely numb when over stimulated, causing me to lose erection. At other times, sex is a painful ordeal, especially with certain kinds of latex and non-latex condoms. I have resorted to faking orgasms on more than a few occasions while wearing condoms. I figured out that buying the over-sized condoms helps make the sexual experience more comfortable. Somehow, the extra material acts as a friction cushion, or a synthetic foreskin, as it moves around. Technically, it probably makes the condom statistically less effective at preventing pregnancy and disease transmission, but why have sex at all if it is going to feel uncomfortable?
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