Justin K. Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If Stef or anyone else can explain this to me I'll be forever grateful. 3, 11, & 7 Want your mind blown? 11/3 = 3.66 3/11= .273 or .272727 The Radius of the moon is 1080 miles (3 x 360 miles) The radius of Earth 3960 miles (11 x 360 miles) There are 360 degrees in a circle of course. The sun takes 33 years (3 x 11) for a perfect repeat sunrise on the horizon Ramadan occurs every 12 moons & takes 33 years to move around the calendar. Jesus dies and is resurrected aged 33. There are 33 gaps in the human vertebrae (Jacob's Latter) & 33 degrees in Scottish Rite freemasonry. In between 3 & 11 is seven, 11/7 is the ancient Egyptian value for half of pi. 3, 7, & 11 are all Lucas numbers. Skull & Bones at Yale uses the #322 - it may be a coincidence idk but 322 is the 12th Lucas number Two full moons occur every 59 days, so a full moon is every 29.5 days. Stonehenge records this in it's outer circle of 30 stones, one of which is half width (29.5) Each great month in the great year, or procession of equinoxes, such as the age of Pisces or Aquarius is 2,160 years which is also the diameter of the moon in miles. There are 52 weeks in a year & 52 cards in a deck of playing cards. Adding 1+2+3 etc up to 13 gives you 91, the number of days in a season, x 4 = 364 adding a joker (or two jokers) gives you 365 (or 366) The 36th triangular number is 666, so if you add up the 36 numbers on a roulette wheel (circle) it comes to 666 The moon orbits earth every 27.3 days, the same% of its size of earth, meaning the earth is 3.66 times the size of the moon. The earth also orbits the sun every 366 days. The moon is 1/400 the size of the sun & also 1/400th the avg. distance from earth making it appear the same size from earth & both being visible exactly 1/2 the day. The closest to furthest distance that Mars & Venus experience in relation to each other is also 3:11 99 is the number of names or reflections of Allah in Islam. Islam is symbolized by the crescent moon. Venus draws a five fold pattern around earth every 8 years, in those 8 years there are 99 full moons (9 11's) Without the moon & it's effect on earths speed as well as its effect on our tides and also its effect on making seasons possible (a season is 91 days), it is widely understood life would be very difficult if not impossible on earth without it. The time allotted from new to full moon is also the same as a woman's menstrual cycle lining up with the best time to conceive -appearing to be metaphorical for a full moon. The moon is made of the same type rock as the earth but nothing like its weight keeping with its size. Therefore it is only a thin layer of this rock lining the outer layer of the moon with its most reflective side always facing earth. In our modern era with science all but believing it has figured out everything (with the exception of how the moon originated, "big whack" is frought with issues) we have also reached a time where the moon has moved far enough from the earth that eclipses will no longer be total but instead will look like an eye looking down on us (kind of like you see on the back of the dollar bill) & while this is just the tip of the iceberg pertaining to the strange & precise numerical anomalies of the Sun/Moon/Earth relationship, Science of course doesn't find any of this strange. Now I'm not a paranoid conspiracy theorist & put in some extra number relationships just for whoever may be interested, and to strengthen the idea religion is really all based around astronomy & astrology but my main question, & I am not a religious person or believe in God generally either, but it has always bugged me how would the Sun moon & earth all have all these precise distances and orbits with 3:11 ratios (3.66) naturally. I know in nature the Fibonacci sequence & pi occur frequently but that is just a logical progression of adding a quantity in a growth. I there some physical law that makes orbits & distances use 3 to 11? I ask genuinely & non facetiously because I do not know the answer. I always try to follow the evidence where it leads - I just can't get around how this is possible without some kind of intelligent design. Anyone versed well enough in science that they know or have ever read why, or just have any ideas themself that can add to why it could be? 1 1
AynRand Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 The jerk inside me really wants to answer this sarcastically, but instead I'll try to give a real answer. You could just as easily say that the earth is 6370 km and the moon is 1740 kilometers both numbers are divisible by 10 that does not indicate that Jesus is god. I found it really funny that you said in between 3 and 11 is 7. What does that mean. Because 1 is in between 0 and 2 does that mean L. Ron Hubbard is god? I guess my real question is why did ask this question specifically to atheists none of these tid bits of information indicate that any gods exists, and certainly does not support the idea that Allah exists. Numbers are very interesting, and it's really cool to figure out stuff like this for example the Sieve of Eratosthenes is amazing and blew my mind when I first heard about it, however I did not jump to the conclusion that the Buddha is really god, and therefore we have to follow Buddhism to achieve immortality. This is the end of my serious answer. I just can't let my sarcastic urges go un appeased. I encourage everyone to stop reading here. I once saw 3 snakes at a zoo, and instantly thought to myself that 9/3 equals 3, and 3 times 3 equals 9. Naturally I then came to the conclusion that I am the incarnation of God, and everyone should obey my will. I quickly went home and wrote my revelation. I entitled it the law of god, and since god has three letters in it that scientifically proved that I am god. I went online and published my bible. I pointed out a series of irrefutable facts like 11/3 equals 3.66, and for some reason these atheists were to indoctrinated in their satanist cult to see the truth. I asked for evidence of how 11/3 does not equal 3.66, and they agreed that 11/3 does in fact equal 3.66. They agreed with all my information, and they still couldn't see the truth. I realize now that they are just to prejudiced and racist to understand that the moon orbits the earth every 27.3 days. 1
ProfessionalTeabagger Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Are you using the equatorial radius or the polar radius?
Alice Amell Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 These random chosen numbers and random scenarios have nothing to do with god. Of course numbers are related to one another... that's how math works. But just because you manipulate numbers and use specific random objects and measurements that seem to relate doesn't indicate that they are meaningful. Also, I googled the radius of Earth. Google said 3959 miles, not 3960. Therefore it is not 11 x 360. It isn't all neat and perfect and decimal-free (not that that would be any more indicative of god it if were). And radius of moon is 1079.57 This also reminds me of jokes like this: "PS4-XBOX ONE = 3Half Life 3 Confirmed" Complete non sequitur.
Kevin Beal Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 God is really lucky that we measure miles and degrees that way God thinks to himself "wouldn't it be like totally trippy if, when all these humans develop units of measurement, that these celestial objects all conveniently fit mathematically, given those units of measurement? They are totally going to flip their lids! LOL" He's a real trickster. The idea that anyone would do that on purpose is just funny. Why?!
shirgall Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 If coincidences didn't happen we wouldn't have a word for it. Your mind is attuned to finding patterns because that's how you notice tigers in the jungle. What you don't remember is all the ratios and numbers that *don't* make a pattern.
J. D. Stembal Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I don't understand what any of this has to do with atheism.
jbass Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I don't feel like there is anything to explain in response to your series of number facts (some of which are a stretch). I do understand that you were saying that this proves the existence of a god. I'm assuming that you believe in god when I ask this, but how would you feel if someone compiled a hefty list of biblical/Christian contradictions and asked you to explain them? e.g. the earth was stated as flat; murder is permissible by the omniscient, omnibenevolent god; god "breaking the fourth wall" many times in the past, yet remaining untraceable in the universe; etc.
Justin K. Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 To Kevin Beal & Ayn Rand: Your sarcasm and dismissal only shows you didn't understand the question and also to Ayn Rand, you are making several assumptions as to what I believe on the matter or what I would believe even if the implication was that something intelligent had set it up. Foolish response. Everyone gets real testy when they don't have an explanation. First, to whoever else mentioned a km off on one of the moon #'s, really? All the numbers I posted are 99.9% accurate as taught historically in the quadrivium - if a kilometer off here or there it doesn't detract from the point but actually argues more for an entity which isn't an omnipotent God but some other entity prone to error but still it looks quite intentional. I don't believe in God I just want a good explanation. No one has provided one. Saying that you can manipulate the numbers to mean anything you want isn't a rebuttal to the question because I'm not talking about numbers, I am talking about ratios, which in no way can be manipulated. Any measuring system you use, whether kilometers, feet, miles, are all going to be the same ratio versus another. This would lead us to conclude that whoever set it up this way did so SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they/he/she/it whatever didn't know what measuring system would later be invented or used but knew that it wouldn't matter if they made the ratios all line up perfectly it would be a clear indication to whatever type of intelligence that eventually evolve, that something definitely was trying to communicate with it. - is the idea here. The only place I listed where you could have that argument would be the number of miles of the moon equal to the number of years in a great month. Of course all the card & table games are of human invention as well. As I posted, I only included that to show how earlier people obviously had all of this on the mind when writing Holy books, & creating monuments like Stonehenge, & the great pyramids (like the speed of light being the same number as the distance of the pyramids. But just so we are clear, the the ratios of the sun moon earth relationship being not only identical but then lining up perfectly with the days in their orbits can not be a human invention or idea, for we are again talking about the number of times a planet spins or goes around something and the ratios of distance between several things like Mars, Venus, Earth, Sun, Moon. It is telling how people start belittleing a person at the mere mention of God, but have no answer tote question. Perhaps the intellectual rigor is not quite what you think. If anyone has a real explanation to the question I'm all ears, but again I'm not a religious person. I'm genuinely looking for an answer so I can put the idea to bed in my own mind. I haven't found anyone who can say anything other than "coincidence". One coincidence, sure. 2? Perhaps. 3 starts getting weird. Several all relating to the same thing? It just isn't intellectually honest to not consider the idea that I could be wrong about the formation of our solar system or we just aren't scientists. We are committing redefinition fallacies and atheism is then also as unfalsifiable as religion generally. That's why I bring it up. I genuinely want to be wrong about it, I just can't figure out how this occurring naturally is plausible beyond a reasonable doubt. 1 4
labmath2 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 My first instinct is to ridicule you, and my second instinct is to ask where you got all that information. Now to real discussion. I think most people ignore the fact that the universe is not just a random series of interactions. That is why we have science and philosophy. You should look up gravitational equations and circular motion. With that as a start, i am sure you can figure out the rest. For the other relations you site that are not based on natural phenomenon, it is either coincidence or other people found something in those numbers as well and settled on them. Like lucky number 7 or third time's a charm.
AynRand Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Because I forgot that god invented the imperial system. You said that ratios cannot be manipulated. That is not true ratios easily can be manipulated. When the units that are being measured are arbitrarily decided like miles, then put into ratios. Miles are a man made idea. I'm not sure where we got the idea to call 5280 ft a mile or for that matter 12 inches a foot or even what is an inch, but all of these units are man made.So to say that both the Earth and the Moon are divisible by 360 does not tell us anything when the units are man made. If 1 mile was 1 million feet then the moon would not be divisible by 360 and neither would the Earth. Gods did not come down from the heavens and dictate in a bible what units of measurement will be used for their slaves. Allow me to pose a question to you. How did Nostradamus predict 9/11, and the titanic sinking. You know that he was only a few weeks off from the exact date of the Kennedy assassination. Do you want to know how he did these things the truth is he didn't. He made thousands of incredibly vague predictions that when applied on the scale of the earth of course many would come true. The man bird flew between the two rocks obviously that means the world trade center bombing, and he wrote that at 11:00 on Tuesday which is 9 days after Sunday, so that clearly is scientific evidence that Nostradamus astrology works. The reason I included this story is to show that their are an infinite number of coincidences that can be found in literally every aspect of existence. I don't mean to say that everything is a coincidence, but their are an infinite number of them. The reason science is so great is that it limits the possibility of coincidence. Predictions made through the scientific method can still be coincidence but it is very unlikely. Evolution could be an entirely made up idea, and all the data is just coincidence, but it is very unlikely. Once again very sorry that I have to include this part. Please stop reading here. I just can't let my sarcasm go unappeased. After the realization that all these atheists were just racist misogynists. I decided to then form my own theocracy, and establish my own government. I quickly got a few of the wisest men that this world has ever known. They were so smart that they blindly believed every word that I said. We set up a community on the outskirts of Texas, and I quickly enacted laws that would be needed to maintain control over my slaves sorry I meant to say citizens. I demanded censorship of any depiction that resembled our great prophet L. Ron Hubbard, and of course I demanded the death's of all non believers. I started classes demonstrating all of the facts that I laid out for the universe. Like Lucas numbers, and how their are 52 cards in a deck which just proves that I am god, and anyone who disagrees must want anarchy for the world because anarchy means chaos.
Matthew Ed Moran Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 OP, I find your post annoying and disingenuous. I wish, rather than slyly shift the burden of proof, you would have just argued how this proves the existence of a deity; Allah, or whatever God you think it proves. You said you "generally" don't believe in god, whatever that means. But you said you cannot see how "this" (numerical anomalies I guess? I'm not even sure what "this" is) could be without some kind of intelligent design. What does that even mean? I don't mean this to be impolite, but who cares what you can see or cannot see? Either you think there is a valid argument for God's existence and you are willing to put it up to the test of science and Occam's Razor, or you're not being rational and are not interested in rational inquiry. The presentation style you have about how this question is so innocent and genuine really rubs me the wrong way, and I'm betting it rubbed a few others the wrong way, too. So if you have an argument which proves the existence of God, by all means, provide it Or at least be honest if this is your argument.
Justin K. Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 I came here hoping I'd get more open & intelligent discussion than YouTube - but so far it's about the same level of vitriol for anything contrary to what we already believe - with a couple polite exceptions. I wasn't being sneaky or shifting the burden of proof. I don't think it does prove God's existence. I just find it odd and because some others do, & have written books about it, I thought perhaps someone here might be able to explain it. Telling me to look up gravitational patterns and circular motion is what does seem disengenuous as it makes it seem like you know, but given that not ALL orbits and rotations have direct relations to distance and use this same ratio, this isn't very helpful. I mean it could be something like if a planet orbits one thing than things orbiting around it would for some reason have to be a distance from it at the same ratio to make it all work, I don't frickin know. Apparently no one here does either. I agree with one comment, and have always had the opinion that synchronicity & coincidences kind of have to occur somewhere with all the complexities of life and it would actually be a stranger statistical anomolie if they did not, I just don't think that this fully explains this here, particularly given how poetic the Sun & moon appear to humanity, appearing the same size, representing opposites & what not. I don't know why everyone's first inclination is just to be so rude and obnoxious. 5
neeeel Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 at some point, in the past, and in the future, the sun and moon wouldnt appear the same size. Its like the saying of a broken clock being right twice a day You say that First, to whoever else mentioned a km off on one of the moon #'s, really? All the numbers I posted are 99.9% accurate as taught historically in the quadrivium - if a kilometer off here or there it doesn't detract from the point but actually argues more for an entity which isn't an omnipotent God but some other entity prone to error but still it looks quite intentional of course it matters if they are a km off. Instead of being whole numbers and looking impressive, your calculations are fractions , and just look meaningless. Its also interesting that you picked 3 , 7, and 11, for no reason that I can see ( they are lucas numbers,whoopee, so what, thats no reason to pick those 3 specific numbers) . So your calculations are all weighted by deliberate selection of numbers at the beginning of the process, in order to get the results you see.
Kevin Beal Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 All you need to do to debunk an argument for intelligent design is to grant every single one of it's premises. The idea that an omnipotent guy is coming up with what the size of celestial objects should be is so ridiculously unnecessary that to take it seriously is to reveal a complete nutcase of a creator. I mean, why the hell does he care that the earth and the moon are a particular size?! Just for the fuck of it?
Justin K. Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 Kevin Beal, well no the assumption would be so that it would be so striking that we couldn't miss it. In the book, "Who built the moon" - God is only posited as one possibility, aliens, time traveling humans. It gets crazy, but the evidence the moon is not a natural object is fairly compelling. to neeeel: being a kilometer off doesn't change the general ratio of 3 to 11 (again it is 99.9% accurate) I didn't pick the numbers 3 & 11 That's is the ratio. People arguing with themselves & making assumptions. I didn't say it proves God, for the month time, just asked if anyone knew the answer. I know how theologians explain it, I'm asking how atheists do. I've heard back boos, but no explanation. It's a very precise & redundant anomolie.
neeeel Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 you didnt pick them maybe, but someone did. There is absolutely no justification for using 3 , 7, or 11 anywhere in your post
Kevin Beal Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Kevin Beal, well no the assumption would be so that it would be so striking that we couldn't miss it. In the book, "Who built the moon" - God is only posited as one possibility, aliens, time traveling humans. It gets crazy, but the evidence the moon is not a natural object is fairly compelling. My response applies equally well for any deliberate agent you can think up.
Justin K. Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 Neeel What are you talking about? The number of times the earth spins while rotating around the sun is the same number ratio of the moon around the earth the number 3.66 or 366 or the inversion .2727 a three to eleven ratio comes up a significant number of times to be striking - that is the "justification" no one picked them, they did a calculation & it came up over & over again.
endostate Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 When someone sees patterns which do not really exist, this is known as apophenia. - Learning to recognize apophenia is important, as it is a good idea to be able to distinguish between true patterns and mere coincidence. This distinction is especially crucial in the sciences, where type I errors can radically skew experiment results, especially when people make subtle adjustments to reinforce their ideas. As a general rule, if you keep noticing the same number, symbol, pattern, sound, or event in your life, it is probably a case of apophenia; you might want to seek out evidence which contradicts your impression of a pattern or connection. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-apophenia.htm A confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias in which people tend to seek out information that agrees with their previously held beliefs. They also lend more weight to informational input that supports their beliefs, while discarding contradictory information. This is one of the most common cognitive biases, and it can also be the most dangerous, because it can lead people into very poor decisions on the basis of questionable information. Learning to recognize this type of bias is very important, and individuals can use one or more of several techniques to avoid it, whether carrying out scientific research or buying produce. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-confirmation-bias.htm The "god of the gaps" is a bit of theological reasoning which invokes divine intervention as a way to understand natural phenomena that science is presently unable to explain; since we don't know how x happens, it is assumed that Goddidit. Of course, scientists and most rationalists would argue that naturalistic explanations for still-mysterious phenomena are always possible. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps 2
MagnumPI Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 The Sun has a 432,450 million mile radius. So, what does that mean?You want an explanation as to why these things that you've hand chosen appear hand chosen? 2
Justin K. Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 Magnum PI It doesn't mean anything unless there were 9 other things that used precisely the same number. Does anyone understand a ratio is not "hand chosen" If I said a new full moon occurs every 29.5 days and it takes Saturn 29.5 years to orbit the sun (which are both true), I could understand everyone saying it's just a coincidence & you can do that with anything. But this much of something in relation to that much of something as a ratio will always be that ratio irrespective of what means you are using to measure it. When that ratio divided either way becomes a number that also precisely identifies the number of occurrences of something, like an orbit or a rotation, it matters not the language used to describe it, who is doing so, what their belief is, it is a universal. No cherry picking is either involved nor POSSIBLE. When the ratios as well as the occurrences are all poignantly related to each other in poetic & in some cases even ironic fashion That's why it becomes strange. neeel did say something true before though that I didn't address, when you said it's like a watch being right twice a day. I did post that the moon is moving away from earth. But to put it in perspective it would be like the time, the minute the watch was right - that minute being akin to all of recorded history. That doesn't really weaken the idea but strengthens it. Because of the moon making life on earth possible - that broken watch is set for when we would be here. And again I'm playing Devils advocate. If any of you knew me this goes against everything else I know, understand & believe. It just bugs me & was hoping one of you might be able to explain it in a perfectly rational fashion, but everyone is just saying all the same shit I said when I first heard it. But I kept looking into it, & it gets weirder & weirder. It's pissing me off actually. 1
MagnumPI Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 So if it isn't hand chosen, then it's just a coincidence? OK, then. Thanks for the explanation. Another thing, is: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/moonfact.html Says that it's a volumetric mean. Not an actual measurement but a calculation from other measurements. At which point we're just drifting further and further from any actual concrete reality.
Justin K. Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 If you are okay with calling it a coincidence. But that's a real hell of a coincidence. There has to be a physical reason why. I was hoping for something like a physical law as to why a ratio would have to be a certain way for a planet or star orbiting or being orbited by its neighbors to make it possible - because Venus & Mars have some odd 2:5 ratios & when you map their patterns they form things like pentagrams and hexagrams & stuff. I wanted a way to resolve the last glimmer of any notion we are all caught in some strange Archon experiment. I don't really believe that I was looking for the answer to how I know it isn't the case. There has to be a better answer than coincidence, it's just too many and too specific not to involve some kind of law. 1 2
Magnus Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 e As in, e = φ • 0 + e Ergo God. Checkmate, atheists!
Libertus Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 How do theists explain this? "God did it" is not an explanation. 1
Justin K. Posted March 7, 2015 Author Posted March 7, 2015 God did it may indeed not be an answer but that is what theists would say. I was asking how atheists explain it. To say apophenia is for me a loss of credibility. It was perhaps not the best title for this group: But it is actually that all the numbers are 99.9% accurate & not 100% that bothers me the most. You see, if it was 100% to the T accurate it lends itself in my mind at least more to a law of physics. When it is startling accurate & redundant but a km off, or 99.9% accurate it appears intentional & yet prone to, not error but just the imperfectability of... Idk art I guess. I've thought about this awhile & I think the 99.9% accuracy only makes it weirder. 1
MagnumPI Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 But it's not much of a coincidence, really. Humans invent some arbitrary calculation called a 'mean' and say it's a fair representation of what's going on. It isn't. It's rounding to the tenths, then drawing a line through the data. This has come up on a car site or two, something similar at least. Everyone wanted to call shenanigans on some poor guys dyno chart because the HP and Torque don't cross at 5252 RPMs. Well, if they'd had half a second to think about it, the dude was from Europe and that torque was measured in newton metres, not lb. ft. And since horse power is a calculation, not a measurement, from torque, the intersection rule doesn't work if you change the units. So, taking a measurement, and then deciding how to calculate it, and coming up with a correlation isn't even impressive. It's just a number. There's only one sun they all orbit, of course there's going to be some similarities. Here's one: The sun has a 2.7(?!?!) million mile cicumference. Maybe has something to with why the number keeps coming up. But if the ratio were 2.5368:13.31545663 It would be just as impressive if you're looking for a fable to attach to it. And in all likelihood, the ratio is probably more like that. Rounding makes a 6 into a 10. 1
BD91 Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 ^ What MagnumPI said. I mean, let's expound on what the OP is doing...rounding. So, numbers less than 5 round down, and numbers greater than or equal to 5 round up. Ergo, 2+2 is basically equivalent to 0+0. now 0+0=0 but 2+2=4... How do atheists explain this? 1
Matthew Ed Moran Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 OP, it sure didn't read like you were just curious about some physical law. You literally asked the question TO atheists. Why didn't you ask: "how do physicists explain this?" 1
fractional slacker Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 If the OP had prefaced this question by noting this has nothing to do with philosophy, I dare say the responses would have been generous and less numerous. At least that is my $.02 cents.
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