aliasneo Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Obese bullied man gets laughed out of a dance club and humiliated online. Soon after, he's getting a "dance party" hosted by celebrities? I'm trying to be positive about this, but something doesn't feel right. What are your thoughts? This story is trending on Facebook right now and it's getting overwhelmingly positive feedback.
MagnumPI Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I find it all condescending. Like the idiot who had the 20 mile commute "on foot". Or the down syndrome kid they let score on the HS basketball team. Junk like that always bothered me. Like, if you don't have the ability, pretending is only going to create a sense of entitlement. So what happens when real-life resumes? Oh, disappointment and the cameras ain't rolling. You had your time in the light, and nobody actually gives a shit. It's just a feel-good distraction for a moment. And now these people have enabled a behavior or lifestyle that only leads to more ridicule, without providing any way to make sense of it or rise above it, rather than promoting positive change and pursuit of virtuous endeavors. I mean, I get ridiculed all the time, for whatever people want to find. If it's a white t-shirt, I'm Fonzy. If it's white pants, Cuban drug dealer. Doesn't have anything to do with me, just insecure people who watch too much TV. But see, I'm tall, good looking, funny and successful, so eat a dick, right? It all ends up like this racism thing. It's actually worse to sit and remove agency from this guy, and coddle him, than it is to make fun of him for what he is. 3
aliasneo Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 A morbidly obese man walks into a night club... Sounds like a joke, right? This frustrates me because everyone around him is encouraging him to "keep doing what you're doing," but I just want to tell him "Run! Run for you life! You are in danger! Enjoy the party, but don't expect to meet good people from this experience. Just keep running until you catch up with yourself." I just feel very sad about this, and I agree. The whole thing seems self serving and enabling... I want to say, "Put down the food, pick up some free weights or a gym membership, and lose your "friends" before you lose yourself." Would you, being in his shoes, rather hear the truth or emotional pandering? 2
MagnumPI Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Word. I got up to about 172, and 12% body fat, you better believe I cut 800 calories per day, and hit the gym an extra day every week. I actually got on my buddies about it, like hey fellas, thanks for the heads up. Can't see my back fat from up here... But it is easy to get caught up in the hoopla, and at the end of the day, this dude is just like everyone else. They all deserve each other. Truth is painful. I mean, I'd be like $30'000?!?! Fuckin A, I'm getting in ridiculous shape. Taking about 4 months off my job, and doing some self work. Mental and physical.
Jer Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I find it all condescending. Like the idiot who had the 20 mile commute "on foot". Or the down syndrome kid they let score on the HS basketball team. Junk like that always bothered me. Like, if you don't have the ability, pretending is only going to create a sense of entitlement. So what happens when real-life resumes? Oh, disappointment and the cameras ain't rolling. You had your time in the light, and nobody actually gives a shit. It's just a feel-good distraction for a moment. And now these people have enabled a behavior or lifestyle that only leads to more ridicule, without providing any way to make sense of it or rise above it, rather than promoting positive change and pursuit of virtuous endeavors. I mean, I get ridiculed all the time, for whatever people want to find. If it's a white t-shirt, I'm Fonzy. If it's white pants, Cuban drug dealer. Doesn't have anything to do with me, just insecure people who watch too much TV. But see, I'm tall, good looking, funny and successful, so eat a dick, right? It all ends up like this racism thing. It's actually worse to sit and remove agency from this guy, and coddle him, than it is to make fun of him for what he is. +1 I've exceeded my allotment of upvotes for the day Maddox did a great write up and brought up good questions like "Is anybody checking any facts before giving this guy 30k and a party?" http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=dancing_man 1
FreedomPhilosophy Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I get the sense that the people who were cruel to the fat man were more sincere than the ones being kind? 2
alwazqestion Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 It's "feel good" enabling. Replace the obese man with an alcoholic and it becomes exceedingly clear. This body positive horse shit movement somehow seems to completely forget that loving your body means LOVING YOUR BODY. You don't get to dump umpteen thousand calories of shit down your throat everyday, spend several hours on the toilet a day as a result, only moving just enough to keep the calories coming (with the very occasional dance floor shimmy), zoning out to one screen or another so as to patently avoid any meaningful contact with your inner world, never mind with others and then get to be "Body Positive." That demeans people who will never achieve good health no matter what they do, or the lucky ones (like myself) who have to (but get to) work really hard to achieve good health due to factors out of their control, as well as really lucky ones who have always been able to support and treasure good health.
J. D. Stembal Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 It's "feel good" enabling. Replace the obese man with an alcoholic and it becomes exceedingly clear. This body positive horse shit movement somehow seems to completely forget that loving your body means LOVING YOUR BODY. You don't get to dump umpteen thousand calories of shit down your throat everyday, spend several hours on the toilet a day as a result, only moving just enough to keep the calories coming (with the very occasional dance floor shimmy), zoning out to one screen or another so as to patently avoid any meaningful contact with your inner world, never mind with others and then get to be "Body Positive." That demeans people who will never achieve good health no matter what they do, or the lucky ones (like myself) who have to (but get to) work really hard to achieve good health due to factors out of their control, as well as really lucky ones who have always been able to support and treasure good health. What does good health have to do with luck? It's a conscious path toward success. Obviously, morbidly obese people have strayed from the path at some point in the distant past. It doesn't happen overnight. Obese people don't wake up one morning stricken with a debilitating condition. Health is a choice, not an accident.
alwazqestion Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I'm talking about people fortunate enough to have good genetics, or who haven't been infected with a chronic illness or suffered a debilitating injury. I never said that health wasn't a choice or an accident. I said that the really lucky ones are those who are able to support and treasure good health. You do not have to tell me that health is a choice. I've had to work really fucking hard to attain it. Which I also mentioned.
J. D. Stembal Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 I'm talking about people fortunate enough to have good genetics, or who haven't been infected with a chronic illness or suffered a debilitating injury. I never said that health wasn't a choice or an accident. I said that the really lucky ones are those who are able to support and treasure good health. You do not have to tell me that health is a choice. I've had to work really fucking hard to attain it. Which I also mentioned. How does fortune and genetics relate to the other? You essentially changed the words around and said the same statement as before. What does luck have to do with health? Why will some people never achieve health no matter what they do? That sounds like an issue that stems from a lack of choice or biological "unluckiness", yet you agree that health is a choice, and a matter of free will. Which is it? What exactly are the factors that are out of your control with regard to your health? Is that not another appeal to biological determinism, like nature rolled two d10s and botched it? Why was health so difficult for you to attain? Does that have some relevance to the statement that "lucky ones are able to support and treasure good health"?
alwazqestion Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 I'm trying to understand what about my statements are so bothersome to you, and I'm coming up short. And if you could, show me where I changed the words of what I said, as I thought I just re quoted myself with emphasis. Also, I am not a determinist, and I see nothing in my statements that would suggest that. You understand that there are many people who are born with genetic diseases and disorders, or are born in areas with rampant disease and malnutrition, or get into an accident and are left permanently crippled, and those are circumstances are completely out of an individuals control, right? In those instances exercise and diet (where possible) can certainly help, but true good health will never be attained. If you happen to born with a "good" set of genetics in an area with good nutrition and without rampant debilitating diseases, with an intact body I would call that fortunate, or "lucky" if you will. Pure chance. Accidents are to at least some degree in an individual's control, but you can't live in a bubble. I don't have much sympathy for adults who hurt themselves doing something risk, but we all need to get to work and there are lots of drunks, texters, and pill poppers on the road. Shit happens to us that we can't control that can severely impact health. What does that have to do with determinism? Free will only extends to our choices, not to where we are born and with what set of genetics. Children born with spina bifida will never know good health regardless of their actions.The heat in my first post does indeed have relevance to the "lucky ones" statement. It does bother me when people have everything available to them to achieve good health and throw it all away. I realize much of that unhealthy behavior is likely due to past trauma, but they still choose ... everyday ... not to do something about it. I have celiac disease which is a genetically inherited auto-immune disease where when gluten is present my immune system attacks the lining of my intestines. It's a relatively easily managed disease ... if you've been diagnosed early. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 25. I was so sick by that point I thought I was dying, and doctors had written me off as a hypochondriac. I was in constant pain, was on the toilet 20 times a day, hadn't slept more than an hour a night in months. My intestines were so damaged they couldn't absorb much nutrition and I was nearly white and faint with anemia, and suffered a whole host of other malnutrition issues. Growing up, my growth had been stunted by at least a few inches (I'm only 5'5"), and my skin was always covered in a painful rash related to celiacs, but was written off as eczema. I had horrendous environmental allergies due to my immune system being overwhelmed fighting my own body. I would probably BE dead if I hadn't finally found a doctor who thought to include it in a broad spectrum blood test and found it. But by that point a lot of damage had been done. It took years and thousands of dollars on various nutritionists, supplements, probiotics, enzymes, etc. and thousands of hours of my own research to finally get myself healed. The digestive system never gets a break, and that makes it really hard to heal. My gut flora was also really screwed up and that takes a lot of trial and error and pain to get balanced. Now, I can sleep well, have normal bathroom visits, the allergies are almost gone, and I generally feel good. But it takes diligent healthy eating and exercise (like everyone else, just with more emphasis on the diet). But every now and again I eat something contaminated with gluten and I'm sick for a couple weeks. It only takes a crumb of bread. Now how about you? Why did my posts bother you? Was it the perceived determinism? I admit my original post could have been clearer, but it seems to me the followup post should have cleared up the confusion. I get the sense we actually agree more than disagree here.
J. D. Stembal Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I apologize for getting testy about lucky genes. I do find it bothersome to hear about illness being framed as unlucky for the reason that about 90% of disease is preventable. I understand a child can be born with a genetic disorder, but more often than not, it could have been mitigated by the parents. Genetic screenings, and a healthy, stress-free environment for the mother can go a long way in preventing congenital defects. Also, as Stefan has pointed out, every year a woman waits to have children, her eggs are a little more likely to produce chromosomal defects. I'm very sorry to hear about the severe gluten intolerance. I'm a fair bit more tolerant to wheat gluten than you but it has still taken a toll on me and my family. My father had a heart attack at forty-seven, and he absolutely loved his pasta and bread. I also have a love for pasta, bread and pizza. I can eat a whole pizza, and have a 50/50 shot at the runs the next day, but I try not to eat any wheat. It can be very addictive. There are people who have severe reactions to it, and there are people who don't have overt Celiac symptoms for decades only to be stricken with Alzheimer's and other severe symptoms later in life. You are in the former category, and I am in the latter. Maybe there are others who can eat wheat their whole lifetime, and not suffer any of the auto-immune effects. I wouldn't want to take the chance, however. I think it would be instructive for you to look at your situation and health from a slightly different perspective. Perhaps it's not you that was born genetically deficient, but the wheat that is nutritionally and biochemically toxic, and not safe for human consumption. Your body is more reactive to the consequences of consuming it. Therefore, you remove it permanently from your diet, and you can be healthier in the long run than other people who don't have a severe sensitivity to gluten. Regretfully, you or your parents could have identified the cause of the problems much sooner. I know a guy who is overweight and in his mid-thirties, and showing symptoms of gluten sensitivity. He gets bouts of diarrhea after eating foods contaminated with wheat, most notably Buffalo Wild Wings, and has a skin rash not unlike dermatitis herpetiformis, the skin condition you mentioned. In the long run, will he be more healthful than you? I'm not sure that he will because he isn't yet bleeding from his colon, or forgetting where he left his wallet. He does not have a perceived urgency to change his diet. He made soap from scratch and claimed that it helped his skin rash, but is still eating wheat! *facepalm* I found this video in a link from another thread: It mostly focuses on glyphosates and autism, but there is brief mention of gut flora, the gut-brain axis, and celiac disease. I hope you find it as stimulating as I did. 1
alwazqestion Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Thank you for all of that, and I'm sorry to hear about your own struggles as well as your family's. I'm also sorry about my own testiness, too. Given both of our struggles with health, it's a pretty understandable trigger, I think. My mother claim I was tested when I was a child, but I doubt the validity. Pretty sure I'd remember a blood draw as a child, since I had a strong aversion to needles then. But maybe it wasn't a blood test. Testing for celiacs was really inaccurate then. My parents are revisionists, so I doubt I'll ever know the true answer. Regardless, they did fail me continuously when they did nothing as my health spiraled downwards. Like you said, soooo many health problems could be halted long before they become an issue. Seems like negative thing plaguing our species comes down to bad parenting. Sigh. Though I've read a great deal about what your talking about, somehow it's never really clicked that maybe my body's reaction to gluten is actually a positive thing. It's very easy for me to treat gluten like poison, given my extreme reaction. As a result, I am better off then those with minor reactions. Though I wish I hadn't spent most of my teens and twenties moderately to severely ill, I have a healthier lifestyle now than I probably would have had I not had such severe symptoms. This has made me feel lucky, in a way. Perhaps I have even more reason to feel lucky ... I could have been even sicker in the long run. Thanks again.
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