9/11 For Dummies? - Ockham's Razor

[packmule]

I recently talked with a civil engineer while playing tennis and he said that the core problem in American and world society is low intelligence, to which he traces every social pathology including wars and other forms of mass violence. His central argument is that morality and intelligence are directly correlated, and that people of low intelligence (80% of the population by his measure) are incapable of the reasoning needed to make sound judgments and decisions, even when the facts and relevant information needed are at their fingertips.

 

I countered that most people are conditioned to revere authority figures (priests, politicians, scientists, teachers, parents, etc.) and to accept their judgments and decisions without critical scrutiny. He said that such acceptance is immoral, and a mark of low intelligence, since the intelligent person will pursue the truth even in the face of adversity.

 

He uses 9/11 as an example. Volumes have been written to discredit the government's 9/11 narrative (see Stefan's podcast on 9/11 - 2006?), and some of it is definitive, but he says proving that the World Trade Center Towers 1 and 2 came down by controlled demolition is child's play, and that any moral (intelligent) American knows the truth about the collapse and where the damning finger of justice should be pointed, for that day of horror and the wars, death and destruction that have followed. Few do. Here is what he sent me:

 

9/11 For Dummies.

 

1) Towers 1 & 2 of the WTC were each over 1,300 feet tall ( 1/4 mile) and consisted of 236 exterior vertical steel columns (14" square in cross-section) and 47 interior vertical steel columns (some 52" x 22", and some 36" x 16" in cross-section), all more than 1,300 feet tall and tied together with horizontal steel beam grids at each of the 110 floors.

 

2) After the towers' collapse, there were no 1,300 foot long columns, which would have spanned 2 city blocks (1/4 mile). Instead, photos show myriad gnarled pieces of steel columns in and around the 208' x 208' base of the towers, few of which are more than 30 feet long. None of the column pieces are longer than the diagonal of the square base, which is 295 feet.

 

3) Therefore, 283 steel columns 1,300' tall were cut into small pieces (most less than 30') in the 15 second collapse of each tower.

 

4) The only natural forces acting on the towers were a) gravity and b) fire at the upper 1/3 of the south tower and the upper 1/4 of the north tower. Gravity can't cut steel and fire can only if its temperature is greater than 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit, and in a concentrated form such as a welding torch. Office fires satisfy neither the temperature requirement, nor the concentration requirement for cutting steel. Also, the fact that thousands of people were alive in most parts of the towers prior to collapse, indicates no fire threat to the steel columns was present in most of their vertical length. Thus, we can eliminate natural forces and conclude that the multiple cuttings of each of the 283 vertical steel columns of Towers 1 & 2 of the World Trade Center were made by unnatural or man-made methods and technology.

 

5) So, whether it was Thermite or Thermate that cut the steel columns, or whether you call it controlled demolition, implosion, or some other name, it was man-made technology and methods that brought down Towers 1 & 2 (&7) in typical controlled demolition rapidity and result.

 

 

 

 

 

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

Can you prove you are not part of the conspiracy?

[utopian]

I agree with your friend the engineer, although I come from a different aspect. I also accept his explanations about demolitions.

 

My perspective however comes from the study if US history, a history of false flag events, and most of all, the broken window theory. I just did a google search on the theory and found there is an alternative popular theory, so I will have to explain mine.

 

The broken window theory is this. You are a window maker. You sell a guy a window. Because he has a window now, you cant sell as many windows. Extrapolated across an entire economy, this principle could mean a stagnant economy. So what is a window maker to do? He pays the kid down the street a dollar to throw a rock at the window and break it, thus creating the need for the homeowner to buy another window from you, thus stimulating the economy. 

 

So consider that for a second. Consider also, that the average person, what your friend might call the 80%, would not even get as far as considering this principle. 

 

 

Now, consider that America has a giant, corporate, military industrial complex. We have peace times. And because we have peace, no one is buying military items. Because the military industrial complex is probably the largest of any in America, and because it is not being utilized, the economy is stagnating.

 

So what to do? stage a terrorist event, except instead of a broken window, you pay the kid down the street, the terrorists, to break a whole building. The media jumps on it, making lots of money from selling a story. The politicians jump on it, already in bed with corporations (like Dick Cheney who owned so much of Haliburton) and the military industrial complex now has a reason to produce lots of war products for sale. Your gonna need it, for your newly manufactured enemy. Oh yea, and now we have a stimulated economy again, great for the wall street insiders who have already invested in the right stocks. 

 

And no one will question the politicians, or the media, or the corporations, because people's intelligence is on a bell-grade-curve, and only 20% of people have the capacity to question what is going on. 

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

I agree with your friend the engineer, although I come from a different aspect. I also accept his explanations about demolitions.

 

My perspective however comes from the study if US history, a history of false flag events, and most of all, the broken window theory. I just did a google search on the theory and found there is an alternative popular theory, so I will have to explain mine.

 

The broken window theory is this. You are a window maker. You sell a guy a window. Because he has a window now, you cant sell as many windows. Extrapolated across an entire economy, this principle could mean a stagnant economy. So what is a window maker to do? He pays the kid down the street a dollar to throw a rock at the window and break it, thus creating the need for the homeowner to buy another window from you, thus stimulating the economy. 

 

So consider that for a second. Consider also, that the average person, what your friend might call the 80%, would not even get as far as considering this principle. 

 

 

Now, consider that America has a giant, corporate, military industrial complex. We have peace times. And because we have peace, no one is buying military items. Because the military industrial complex is probably the largest of any in America, and because it is not being utilized, the economy is stagnating.

 

So what to do? stage a terrorist event, except instead of a broken window, you pay the kid down the street, the terrorists, to break a whole building. The media jumps on it, making lots of money from selling a story. The politicians jump on it, already in bed with corporations (like Dick Cheney who owned so much of Haliburton) and the military industrial complex now has a reason to produce lots of war products for sale. Your gonna need it, for your newly manufactured enemy. Oh yea, and now we have a stimulated economy again, great for the wall street insiders who have already invested in the right stocks. 

 

And no one will question the politicians, or the media, or the corporations, because people's intelligence is on a bell-grade-curve, and only 20% of people have the capacity to question what is going on. 

Perhaps YOU are part of such a conspiracy and this is disinformation. Can you prove you aren't involved in 9/11?

[LovePrevails]

ProfessionalTeabagger what is with the trolling comments?

[jpahmad]

Intelligence as causal to morality is a rediculous claim.  The greatest violence in the history of the world(war) is initiated by intelligent people.  The greatest theft operation in the history of the world (taxes) is initiated by intelligent people.  It would seem almost the opposite from what your tennis buddie has stated.

 

After that kind of statement, it woud be difficult for me to listent to anythig else he has to say.

[packmule]

I would say that morality and intelligence are statistically correlated, not connected causally. 

 

Consider two women, one intelligent and one not, with infants going to the grocery store on a hot summer's day.  The intelligent woman is constantly vigilant in the care of her baby, and takes every precaution to avoid dangers seen and unseen.  The unintelligent woman has difficulty processing sensory information into usable plans of action, and therefore "flies by the seat of her pants."  Upon arrival at the grocery store, the intelligent woman unstraps her baby from its car seat and brings it inside, alarmed by the potential heat danger.  The unintelligent woman, is not alarmed by the heat, and thinking she will only be a few minutes, leaves her baby in the car, saving herself the trouble of unstrapping the baby and dealing with it in the store.  When she returns to her car 30 minutes later, having taken longer than she expected, she is horrified to find her baby dead.

 

If one were to compare the women morally by their actions, the intelligent woman would be called moral, and the unintelligent woman immoral (grossly negligent).  But the unintelligent woman loved her baby and is horrified that it has died needlessly.  It was her lack of intelligence that killed the baby.

 

Likewise, the American people as a group were lacking in the basic intelligence needed to see the collapse of the WTC as an unnatural, man-made event (controlled demolition), and to blast the government narrative into oblivion.  Had a critical mass of Americans arrived at the truth by critical thinking, the War on Terror that ensued by design would have been thwarted along with the monstrous moral and material costs to America and its Iraqi and Afghani victims.

[stMarkus]

The scientific paper Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center
Catastrophe conclusively shows the presence of unignited aluminothermic explosives in dust samples
from the Twin Towers, whose chemical signature matches previously documented aluminothermic
residues found in the same dust samples.

 

More great articles, research regarding thermite and WTC: Link.

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

ProfessionalTeabagger what is with the trolling comments?

I'm just asking questions. From the down-voting I'm getting it looks like they are questions some of these guys don't want me to ask.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Why wouldn't intelligence be a causal factor in determining morality and virtue? Very low IQ people can't even abstract enough to contemplate abstract universals. It may not be the only factor, but the statistical correlation is evidence that it is a factor; probably an important one. 

 

jpahmad, are you saying that because there are exceptions to an observed statistical correlation, that this refutes the correlation?

[jpahmad]

Why wouldn't intelligence be a causal factor in determining morality and virtue? Very low IQ people can't even abstract enough to contemplate abstract universals. It may not be the only factor, but the statistical correlation is evidence that it is a factor; probably an important one. 

 

jpahmad, are you saying that because there are exceptions to an observed statistical correlation, that this refutes the correlation?

 

very low IQ people are the exception.  It's a bell curve remember.  What statistical correlation are you talking about?

[Snafui]

Ockham's Razor is not useful in solving crime--a mind is at work that does not wish to be caught. Although, if it is being used by LEO then that could explain the backlog they have.

[LovePrevails]

I'm just asking questions. From the down-voting I'm getting it looks like they are questions some of these guys don't want me to ask.

 

don't play victim, you are getting down-voted because you are trolling

If you have an argument or a point to make, just make your case.

[QueechoFeecho]

Low intelligence people don't figure out the underlying immorality of evil programs, therefore they accept them.  Taxes, military industrial complex, war in general, gun control - all examples.

[NotDarkYet]

Do we need 911 to prove that the government has harmed innocent people?

[jpahmad]

Low intelligence people don't figure out the underlying immorality of evil programs, therefore they accept them.  Taxes, military industrial complex, war in general, gun control - all examples.

 

 

So you are saying that low IQ people are easy to deceive right?

[Matthew Ed Moran]

very low IQ people are the exception.  It's a bell curve remember.  What statistical correlation are you talking about?

 

You said: "Intelligence as causal to morality is a rediculous claim."

 

If low IQ people can't or have a harder time abstracting to understand a universal morality (or even to empathize), wouldn't that make them less likely to be moral? And then wouldn't IQ be a causal factor in determining morality? Whether I'm wrong or not, this has nothing to do with how many low IQ people they are.

 

You used rulers as your example of high IQ people who are immoral, when they make up a tiny fraction of all high IQ people. But you're pulling the bell-curve card on me?

 

And the correlation is that lower IQ people tend to be more violent, criminal, more likely to abuse their children. Within the US blacks and hispanics are far more criminal than their higher IQ white and asian counterparts. Worldwide, on average, Arabs and Africans are some of the most violent and barbaric peoples and also are of the lowest IQ populations. I know Asians don't treat kids very well, but I feel confident that blacks and hispanics treat their kids worse. I know whites treat their kids better than blacks and hispanics.

 

I'm not saying that this proves there is a causal connection, but to dismiss his theory so quickly as "rediculous" when higher IQ populations are responsible for most of the world's empathy, philosophy, and universal morality seems unreasonably quick to judge, at least to me.

 

I mean, really, find me a person that watches FDR with an IQ below 100, below 110, below 115, and then tell me IQ is not causally connected to virtue. Find me someone who doesn't take FDR very seriously who doesn't have an IQ above 120. Or at least, do you not think people who watch FDR tend to be more moral and more intelligent than the rest of the population? Is this a coincidence or does IQ have SOME causal role to play with regards to virtue?

 

I'm interested to hear what you think

Low intelligence people don't figure out the underlying immorality of evil programs, therefore they accept them.  Taxes, military industrial complex, war in general, gun control - all examples.

 

What makes you think they haven't figured out the "underlying immorality" (and maybe they're "under lying" in the most literal sense, but I don't think the idea that taxation is theft and that politicians are deceitful scumbags is a hidden truth or anything) in these programs? Why couldn't it be that they accept evil because they hang around evil people, because their parents were evil people, because it's a lot of effort (and presumably would be even more effort for a stupid person) to do research about evil things. Why couldn't they accept evil because, to them, the costs are just way too high to be moral?

[jpahmad]

You said: "Intelligence as causal to morality is a rediculous claim."

 

If low IQ people can't or have a harder time abstracting to understand a universal morality (or even to empathize), wouldn't that make them less likely to be moral? And then wouldn't IQ be a causal factor in determining morality? Whether I'm wrong or not, this has nothing to do with how many low IQ people they are.

 

 

 

No one has made a case for causality, but only correlation and "direct correlation" as stated by the OP.  So I guess I wasn't refuting anyone really.  My bad.

 

However, would you say that low IQ people act immorally because they are easier to deceive?

[st434u]

And the correlation is that lower IQ people tend to be more violent, criminal, more likely to abuse their children. Within the US blacks and hispanics are far more criminal than their higher IQ white and asian counterparts.

 

You shouldn't use "hispanic" to refer to a race. It isn't. It's a language or place of birth. Lots of "hispanics" are white. What you mean when you say hispanics is most likely mestizos. That is, people who are a mix of native american indians (mostly from central and south america) and europeans. While we're at it, I think it's also important to differentiate between blacks and mulattos. For example, Barack Obama is not black, he's a mulatto.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I did mean mestizos. thanks for the correction.

[WasatchMan]

Do we need 911 to prove that the government has harmed innocent people?

 

911 happened when I was in High School.  I believed all the propaganda and wanted to enlist after High School and help fight for "freedom".  Instead, I went to college and became a Civil Engineer.  Watching the towers falls from this new perspective was all I needed to know that it was a physical impossibility for things to have happened the way they were explained to the population.  This knowledge completely changed my world view and put me on the path I am on today - that is how powerful this event is.  If people on mass accepted the truth about 9/11, the world change overnight.

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

don't play victim, you are getting down-voted because you are trolling

If you have an argument or a point to make, just make your case.

Why are you attacking me for asking these questions? I don't actually know if you are in on the 9/11 conspiracy or are part of a disinformation campaign to discredit genuine inquiry into holes in the official story but you can't stop me from having my say. 9/11 truth now!

[Asperbum]

Why are you attacking me for asking these questions? I don't actually know if you are in on the 9/11 conspiracy or are part of a disinformation campaign to discredit genuine inquiry into holes in the official story but you can't stop me from having my say. 9/11 truth now!

I appreciate you bringing it up and posting that information. I think 9/11 probably is a gov cover-up. It probably was a planned demolition, but so what? Like Stef said in a podcast a few years back, the US gov has a long dirty laundry list of deeds that span back to the country's conception, so why all of a sudden act all shocked and appalled at a possible 9/11 cover-up?

 

The Penn. Whisky Rebellion. Southern states forcing whites to catch run-away slaves. Slaughtering of natives. Small Pox infected blankets given to natives. Iran-contra affair. The FDR administration likely knew of the Pearl Harbor attack ahead of time. Bombing of Cambodians during Vietnam war. The fallout from Fallugia. Etc. Etc..

 

If 9/11 is a gov cover-up that no one wants to accept, then it's merely the tip of an upside down iceberg that's fully exposed except for the tip itself.

[Bedouin]

@OP's second post. What good is this observation if it's only correlative when there's a much more causal one staring everyone in the face: child abuse as the origin of immorality?

 

Not being able or willing to do complex calculations and gain an understanding of physics (high IQ doesn't necessitate being interested in physics either) in order to quantify the events of 9/11 and hence claim that it was an inside job does not really demonstrate the truth value of his argument that less intelligence = more evil.

 

Perhaps another element to consider might be that evil is mostly either the product of malice or incompetence (not all bad parents are knowingly sadistic; many are just idiotic and blinkered.) If this is true then lower intelligence could account for many cases of evil where 'incompetence' or semi-conscious willed ignorance are to blame (as opposed to outright cruelty.)

 

Is it possible to follow these points or have I put my ideas across badly?

[Kim Lee]

283 steel columns 1,300' tall were cut into small pieces (most less than 30') in the 15 second collapse of each tower ... by unnatural or man-made methods ... in typical controlled demolition rapidity and result.

So 10,000 undetected explosives detonated within 15 seconds on the same day the plane hit?

[t_snizzle]

  Why not look at David Chandler's video of the South Tower coming down?  You will see detections of explosions. 

[Kim Lee]

  Why not look at David Chandler's video of the South Tower coming down?  You will see detections of explosions. 

Do you mean the North Tower video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDoGuLpirc