Obama's mandatory voting idea

[aaaaa11]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

I read an article saying that Obama called it “potentially transformative.” While it might benefit the democratic party, it sounds like the worst kind of transformation from a moral standpoint. 

 

Seems to me, like Stefan has eluded to in his video The Truth About Voting, voting is just a crumb of freedom. A figment of the imagination of control. 

 

Voting is like the glimmer of hope you get when the friend who constantly disappoints you occasionally does something promising. 

 

Voting is enabling, and taking part in, the immoral institution that is the government.  

 

And forced voting is just stacking immoral on top of immoral. Somehow it seems nice, but only when added to a faulty foundation. 

[shirgall]

When you get forced to do something, it's seldom for your own good.

 

I think it should be more annoying to vote, and that the lifespan of things that get voted for should be based on the ratio of who voted for it against the full population, and I think that only the people that vote for taxes should be subject to them... but I'm a radical.

[Pendrokar]

Nations with mandatory/compulsory voting - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting
Perhaps someone here from those nations could enlighten us how it works.

Democracy - "Let's decide by voting", whoever has the most votes, has the authority to proceed with their decision as mandated by all voters.

This is something that voters miss when saying "I didn't vote for that, I voted for something else". This isn't about mob rule, its about the activity itself. Modern democracies require a specific amount of turnout(votes) for an election/referendum to be valid. So any vote cast supports the winner.

 

We can take Weimar Republic/German Reich example. There were those that did not vote for the National Socialist(Nazi) party, yet voted for someone else. In turn giving support for the Nazi party to rule over them. That is what the voting was about!

[LandoRamone30]

I remember when my friend brought this topic to my attention. My first reaction was this had to be a joke. No way anyone will let this encroachment on personal freedom will stand, I am kinda scared if this becomes law. You mentioned something I have not given thought to Pendrokar. Voter turnouts gives fuel to the fire. No voters no trust faith confidence in the system. I would love to see that day.

[thelion]

This is something that voters miss when saying "I didn't vote for that, I voted for something else". This isn't about mob rule, its about the activity itself. Modern democracies require a specific amount of turnout(votes) for an election/referendum to be valid. So any vote cast supports the winner.

 

Exactly!

[J. D. Stembal]

How do you enforce such a decree?

[morgandavies]

i think its yet another sign that america is only a few years from being a totalitarian state , however there is some evidence against me for instance australia has forced voting and has done for quite some time and they dont seem much closer to a nazi state than america . but on how you would enforce something like this look at australia fines small inconviniences ,things like that should be enough to get the sheep to make the journey to the poling office. this as a side note is a good example of the parallels between hitler and obama everyone was forced to be a member of the part in germany now you are all forced to part of some sought of party and considering they are all the same party. anyway im glad if any of this was anjoyable

[MMX2010]

According to a FOX news snippet, enforcement is two steps.  (1) You get a $20 fine in the mail, unless you mail in a doctor's note (or some other legitimate excuse).  (2) If you refuse to either justify non-voting or pay the $20 fine, you get dragged into court - with a $175 fine at stake. 

[J. D. Stembal]

According to a FOX news snippet, enforcement is two steps.  (1) You get a $20 fine in the mail, unless you mail in a doctor's note (or some other legitimate excuse).  (2) If you refuse to either justify non-voting or pay the $20 fine, you get dragged into court - with a $175 fine at stake. 

 

Apparently, only the privileged in America can afford luxuries such as not voting. *rolls eyes*

 

I find it quite ironic that America used to have a poll tax to dissuade people from casting votes, or encourage them to put a lot of thought about who received their vote.

[Bedouin]

Along an incremental path toward tyranny, one has to watch one's every step.

 

Now this is one big step into foul-smelling dog mess if ever there was one.

 

... If the people of the US accept such a step then they fully deserve everything that follows.

[AncapFTW]

So, voter ID laws are evil because they suppress the poor and minorities, but making everyone go in and vote when you can't use IDs to verify that it is them is perfectly ok?  I'm confused.

[Tservitive]

How do you enforce such a decree?

 

 

I know that Australia has a mandatory voting law already. As to how, I'm unsure but the precedent has already been set.

[hannahbanana]

I saw a funny meme about how Obama wants to make voting mandatory, but how he missed something like 60-ish voting days while a Senator. I find that a little amusing, in a dark way.

 

I wish there was something like a "no confidence" option in national voting. I've seen it in some less-official polls, and I think that it's better than nothing. I'd still be forced to show up, but I could still refuse to actually participate.

[Alan C.]

Voting is a bad idea, let alone mandatory voting. People can't even take care of themselves, so how can they possibly be qualified to decide how others should live?

 

If you think voting is a good idea then search for the following terms on YouTube:

1. people of walmart
2. americans are stupid
3. mark dice

[apples and grapes]

I've yet to have the fun, joyous time of voting (I'm 18), but I'm Australian and we've had mandatory voting since 1926 or so. It's a hassle if you wanna vote, redundant if you do.

 

It's also a good example of the 'wisdom' of statism, if I go to the polls and scribble "I like cheese" next to a crude drawing of a cat on a ballet paper, all is good. But if I don't go, then ignore the fine and escalation, then rape-rooms and death is a viable moral result. The difference between 'good to kill' and 'not good to kill' is, under the logic of the system, whether I make a cheese related cat picture on a ballet paper. Sounds legit 

 

So have fun donkey voting once every now and then 

[iHuman]

One of the worst ideas in the history of Bad Ideas.

 

with the current system this is

a) Forcing you to choose the lesser of the 2 proposed evils (still choosing evil)
b) forcing participation in a system that a large percentage have found to be so completely rigged it is beyond a joke. (see electronic voting machines)
 

 

this is nothing more than another step towards a totalitarian state in which government is attempting to control every aspect of peoples lives via its monopoly on force.

[Better Future]

[Alan C.]

Gizmodo columnist advocates mandatory voting

[fractional slacker]

Marriage is far more important. Can we have mandatory vote on helping beautiful people marry less than beautiful people?

[circa1874]

I love Obama. Between many people being fined as a result of the new healthcare mandates and this potential voting law people might start waking up to see the gun pointed at them. Hopefully... Just a thought

[WasatchMan]

"Consent, dammit" - King Obama

[nathanm]

I've yet to have the fun, joyous time of voting (I'm 18), but I'm Australian and we've had mandatory voting since 1926 or so. It's a hassle if you wanna vote, redundant if you do.

 

It's also a good example of the 'wisdom' of statism, if I go to the polls and scribble "I like cheese" next to a crude drawing of a cat on a ballet paper, all is good. But if I don't go, then ignore the fine and escalation, then rape-rooms and death is a viable moral result. The difference between 'good to kill' and 'not good to kill' is, under the logic of the system, whether I make a cheese related cat picture on a ballet paper. Sounds legit 

 

So have fun donkey voting once every now and then 

Spoiling the ballot would be my backup plan if (when?) this happens.  So you don't get in trouble if you do this in Australia?

[apples and grapes]

Spoiling the ballot would be my backup plan if (when?) this happens.  So you don't get in trouble if you do this in Australia?

 

No, you don't get in trouble for spoiling your ballot. The ballot is simply considered void and not counted into the vote, but you won't have to pay a fine or anything

[DrTruthiness]

Ideally, voting is meant to give individuals a voice in governance.  It's an incentive meant to be a carrot.  So I'm not exactly spilling my hot coffee in shock and disbelief to see oligarchs floating the idea of using carrots as sticks to beat people with.

 

The numbers are more unsettling than my initial reactions. 

For the last 50 years, U.S. House incumbents won reelection approximately 80% of the time on average, and U.S. Senate incumbents won reelection approximately 75% of the time on average (Center for Responsive Politics, 2014). [1]

This, despite congress being at historically low approval ratings (Gallup, 2015). [2]

I'd bet money that without first addressing the gerrymandering of congressional voter districts and the awesome leveraging power of campaign finance laws by moneyed elites, compulsory voting would only serve to help those already in power.

In Australia, where voting is already mandatory, one must submit a written statement to the government explaining why they did not vote, or pay $20.  If they fail to do either, they will be ordered to appear in court where they can incur a $170 fine and receive a criminal judgment on their record. (AEC.Gov, 2015) [3]

 

For me personally, this kind of legislation is only transformative to society in the Orwellian sense.

 

 

References

1. "Historical Elections." Opensecrets RSS. N.p., 2015. Web. 29 Mar. 2015.

2. "Congress and the Public." Gallup. N.p., 2015. Web. 29 Mar. 2015.

3.  "Voting within Australia – Frequently Asked Questions." Australian Electoral Commission. N.p., n.d.

      Web. 29 Mar. 2015.

   

[DrTruthiness]

Ideally, voting is meant to give individuals a voice in governance.  It's an incentive meant to be a carrot.  So I'm not exactly spilling my hot coffee in shock and disbelief to see oligarchs floating the idea of using carrots as sticks to beat people with.

 

For the last 50 years, U.S. House incumbents won reelection approximately 80% of the time on average, and U.S. Senate incumbents won reelection approximately 75% of the time on average (Center for Responsive Politics, 2014). ^[1]

 

This, despite congress being at historically low approval ratings (Gallup, 2015). ^[2]

 

I'd bet money that without first addressing the jerrymandering of congressional voter districts and the awesome leveraging power of campaign finance laws by monied elites, cumpulsory voting would only serve to help those already in power. 

 

In Australia, where voting is already mandatory, one must submit a written statement to the government explaining why they did not vote, or pay $20.  If they fail to do either, they will be ordered to appear in court where they can incur a $170 fine and receive a criminal judgement on their record. (AEC.Gov, 2015) ^[3]

 

For me personally, this kind of legislation is only transformative to society in the Orwellian sense.

 

References

 

1. "Historical Elections." Opensecrets RSS. N.p., 2015. Web. 29 Mar. 2015.

2. "Congress and the Public." Gallup. N.p., 2015. Web. 29 Mar. 2015.

3.  "Voting within Australia – Frequently Asked Questions." Australian Electoral Commission. N.p., n.d.

      Web. 29 Mar. 2015.

   

[Matt D]

I love Obama. Between many people being fined as a result of the new healthcare mandates and this potential voting law people might start waking up to see the gun pointed at them. Hopefully... Just a thought

 

An hopeful thought but I'm not sure there is evidence to support your claim. It seems to me like liberals then change their tactics to focus on the poor who can't afford to pay the fine and how we should therefore steal more from the rich. (e.g. John Oliver)

[Existing Alternatives]

According to Wikipedia, compulsory voting is well presented in the world. In addition to Australia, these bastions of democracy also have compulsory voting: Argentina, Brazil, Cyprus, Ecuador, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, North Korea, Nauru, Peru, Singapore, Uruguay. There are 20 more countries that have compulsory voting, but do not enforce it (not sure how that works).

 

Canada is currently considering introducing compulsory voting as well.

 

During a recent debate with some of my colleagues on the topic, this argument was given: "In democracy many things are compulsory like taxes, jury duty and conscription." So, there, the case is closed.

[circa1874]

An hopeful thought but I'm not sure there is evidence to support your claim. It seems to me like liberals then change their tactics to focus on the poor who can't afford to pay the fine and how we should therefore steal more from the rich. (e.g. John Oliver)

I think you're 100% correct in that thought. It will be twisted beyond belief. I made my original statement based on reactions I witnessed. Some people I know who are usually apathetic about politics are now suddenly concerned. Gives me the opportunity to swoop in and drop my 2 cents.

Nothing too solid on my part, I admit : )

[stMarkus]

The language they use is yet another kind of weapon. "Mandatory" implies to me that we all live in some big institution that has magnanimously taken us under its wing and for that we cannot possibly ever hope to pay back our debt to this grand, ever-loving father figure. So the least we could do is to obey it unquestioningly and "mandatory" is supposed to be the trigger word that snaps us into an obedient zombie like state. Thus we are thankful that we are told what to do and happily embrace the destruction that is swept over us.

 

The manipulation of language might be subtle but it makes my blood boil anyway and it's used everywhere in politics. "Enforced voting" would be the correct phrase here.

[AccuTron]

It is of course a great shock, that the groups most likely to benefit from increased franchise (Orwellian twinge in that wording) are groups that historically vote Democratic.

[aeonicentity]

The only thing democracy needs to fail is to let idiots vote...