Anyone have any DeFOO tips?

[Beour]

So I'm currently trying to DeFOO but I'm not sure how to go about it. I remember Stefan mentioning a few times that talking to your parents about your childhood is very helpful but to be honest, I couldn't be bothered. I've been seeing a therapist for over a year and we're discussing the options of either writing a letter to them or confronting them in person. Let me give you some background to better understand my situation. I'll try to keep it short:

 

I have an ACE score of 7.

 

I've never been close to my parents and they've never taken any interest in me, the youngest, or my 3 other brothers. We've never, ever had a meaningful conversation as far as I know - it's only ever superficial like "how's work?" or "how's the weather?".

 

I think I've been depressed most of my life. School was hell with being bullied about my weight, feeling like an alien and my mother managed to make things worse. In my teens I was self-harming, almost committed suicide, became a truant and eventually moved out at 17 when I graduated from the shit pit that was high school. I was really messed up at 17 but getting away from home was probably the smartest thing I've ever done.

 

My childhood: I have a lot of memories of violence in my family. My two eldest brothers are around 10 years my senior and I have memories of my father beating the shit out of them and choking them against the wall while my mother screamed and threw plates. With the rest of my siblings, I was spanked and hit on a regular basis; anything from once a week to once a month. Until I was 17 I suppressed the memories of being sexually abused at around 5 or 6 by my second eldest brother (Let's call him Dave). Only recently I started remembering more details of sadistic behaviour from Dave, such as pinning me to the ground and spitting in my face while I screamed, or he would pick me up by the ankles and purposely swing me around close to the wall of our house outside, making me believe he was trying to smash my face in, or even kill me. My parents blamed me for his behaviour by saying shit like "you shouldn't be playing with him then". As for the sexual abuse, my parents knew about it. I have a memory where my mother walked in on Dave manipulating me to touch him inappropriately and she didn't do anything about it. Instead she pretended nothing was wrong and even thought that leaving me in Dave's care ALONE was an okay thing to do. Recently I realised that I started piling on weight and started a very long war with eating disorders after the sexual abuse. In my teens my mother saw the scars on my arm from self-harming and instead of talking to me or getting me help, she pointed an accusatory finger at me and, of course, I would completely shut down and lock myself in my room. If she heard me crying in my room, she would get angry.

 

I spent the next 10 years moving further and further away. My parents live in the arse-crack of nowhere in south-west Ireland and I ended up moving to the Netherlands 4 and a half years ago. I spent the past 10 years feeling guilty about not seeing my family enough and spent a lot of money on travelling back and forth. Not once have my parents bothered to visit me, and they never had a mortgage and don't have any debt as far as I know. I have thought about confronting them in person but at this point I don't see why I should spend so much time and money and resources on people who never loved me and never protected me. I know for sure that I will never get a satisfying answer and I will never be able to repair this relationship.

 

Am I justified in just writing them just a letter telling them that I never want contact again? The idea of confronting them physically is terrifying so I sometimes wonder if I am just chickening out or not? I've thought about calling into the show but I feel like I'm all over the place and I would just be wasting Stefan and Mike's time.

 

Thanks in advance and sorry for the lack of structure in my post. I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts and feelings together.

[Mothra]

I don't really have much advice on deFOOing since I'm a relative newbie myself. But I just wanted to say how sorry I am about how you grew up. Your parents should have been the ones to protect you from such horrors. You sound pretty sure of how your parents would react. Do you feel like you still need the closure of a reaction from them to a letter or a confrontation? If you're at all afraid for your safety I would advise you to not confront them in person.

[bryndomus]

Oh my gosh. That's such a terrible, tragic ordeal. I'm so sorry to hear those terrifyingly abusive, cold & disturbing events. What an utterly horrifying start in life for you.

Well done for summoning yourself to move away and look at your memories and your past in Therapy. That's really brave and strong of you & your anger about the whole thing is utterly justified.

I think what is important is to focus on your feelings. It sounds like it may be a good idea to explore writing a letter for yourself if you feel inclined to. Even if you write it fully you may not want to send it in the end; And you are not in anyway obligated to. It can be the case that the memories prove to be enough to help you make up your mind as to whether or not you want to interact with those people again.

Well done again on your decisions & take care.

 

[DaVinci]

I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

I don't think there is a guide book or list of points for De-fooing. (That I know of) So let me ask you a question. What would be gained by talking to your parents? If they didn't care about you as a kid, then why would they care now? Do you have any reason to think they would? Would they actually listen to what you were saying or would they just defend/excuse past behavior? What would be the worst thing that could happen if you just stopped talking to them right now?

 

If you think you want to call the show then I would say sign up. I don't think they will view it as a waste of time.

[Alan C.]

If you intend to sever contact, it should be to protect yourself from further abuse rather than as a parting shot to wreak vengeance or to teach somebody a lesson.

 

I recommend that you get your affairs in order in such a way that your family cannot track you down. They may attempt to contact you through people you know.

[RicardoMata]

First of, i'm so sorry for what happened in your childhood. 3 years into FDR haven't desensitized me from monstrous pasts somehow.

 

That having been said, I think that confronting your parents can only be a valid option so long as you are safe from physical harm to which I can't say you are given your parents' agressiveness (mainly your father). You obviously know your parents better than anyone else so you should be able to feel it in your "bones" if you are safe or not.

 

The reason I'm saying this is because you think you might be "chickening out". Given the agression you saw from your parents do you think it's not justified ? Do you think it's irrational to fear their capacity for violence ? People often overlook the violence factor to their own peril.

 

If you want to call in to the show by all means do it. I don't think they will think of it as a waste of time. Good luck.

[Beour]

First of all, thank you everyone who took the time and effort to read and reply to my post. I'm so grateful to be shown such kindness   
 

I'm sorry that happened to you.

I don't think there is a guide book or list of points for De-fooing. (That I know of) So let me ask you a question. What would be gained by talking to your parents? If they didn't care about you as a kid, then why would they care now? Do you have any reason to think they would? Would they actually listen to what you were saying or would they just defend/excuse past behavior? What would be the worst thing that could happen if you just stopped talking to them right now?

If you think you want to call the show then I would say sign up. I don't think they will view it as a waste of time.

 

Really good questions, DaVinci. I don't think anything of value could be gained by talking to my parents. I think they would only fake how much they care to keep up appearances. I keep contact to a minimum and last week I got a text message from my mother asking if I was alright and how worried she is. I can't help but scoff but scoffing is immediately followed by immense sadness. I think they would defend past behaviour or just act stupid and claim not to know what I'm talking about. Sweeping problems under the carpet is a typical trait of my family. If you can't see it, it's not there. I'll consider calling into the show, thank you so much.
 

If you intend to sever contact, it should be to protect yourself from further abuse rather than as a parting shot to wreak vengeance or to teach somebody a lesson.

 

I recommend that you get your affairs in order in such a way that your family cannot track you down. They may attempt to contact you through people you know.

 

Hi Alan, I want to do it to protect myself and my future children. I don't want to defoo as a means to revenge or anything of the sort because I know in the long run, it will make me unhappy and my energy is best spent elsewhere. My parents have my home address but I honestly don't think that they would bother trying to find me and I can block via e-mail and phone. I've mostly cut contact with my mother (my father never, ever contact, only by proxy through my mother) and recently she has tried to contact me through a friend. Luckily my friend is smart enough to not reply. I don't think tracking me down will be much of a problem considering how lazy and uncaring they are. Thanks for the tips!

 

First of, i'm so sorry for what happened in your childhood. 3 years into FDR haven't desensitized me from monstrous pasts somehow.

 

That having been said, I think that confronting your parents can only be a valid option so long as you are safe from physical harm to which I can't say you are given your parents' agressiveness (mainly your father). You obviously know your parents better than anyone else so you should be able to feel it in your "bones" if you are safe or not.

 

The reason I'm saying this is because you think you might be "chickening out". Given the agression you saw from your parents do you think it's not justified ? Do you think it's irrational to fear their capacity for violence ? People often overlook the violence factor to their own peril.

 

If you want to call in to the show by all means do it. I don't think they will think of it as a waste of time. Good luck.

 

Hi Ricardo! Wow, what a reply! You really made me think with this one. I never really considered that I could still fear my parents aggressiveness. I think I just dismissed the thought because I'm now an adult, despite the traumas still being raw and fresh in my mind. I think you're right. I think saying that I'm "chickening out" is not a fair thing to say and perhaps I am, in a way, minimising my past by saying this. I will definitely consider calling into the show, thank you so much.

[Matt D]

My deep sympathies, T.F. Having never experienced a real sense of relaxation and joy in your life I know it can seem like any move you make is going to end in disaster. I would echo what bryndomus said about focusing on your feelings and talking through it with your therapist or in a journal.

 

Am I justified in just writing them just a letter telling them that I never want contact again? The idea of confronting them physically is terrifying so I sometimes wonder if I am just chickening out or not?

 

Are you justified? That's probably not a helpful way of phrasing the question. Certainly you don't have to confront people with a violent history in person: trust your feelings. The truth is you don't know if you will ever want contact with them again. No matter how unlikely the possibility of change is, you may not want to completely rule out the possibility in the future. You can only say whether in this moment you want contact with them. If the answer is no, then in my opinion you aren't obligated to say anything. Your letter could be as simple as, "I'm taking a break from the family. When or if I'm ready to talk I'll be in touch."

 

Please keep us informed of your situation if you can. Cliches aside, it gets better.

[Beour]

I don't really have much advice on deFOOing since I'm a relative newbie myself. But I just wanted to say how sorry I am about how you grew up. Your parents should have been the ones to protect you from such horrors. You sound pretty sure of how your parents would react. Do you feel like you still need the closure of a reaction from them to a letter or a confrontation? If you're at all afraid for your safety I would advise you to not confront them in person.

 

Thanks, Zosha. I think a letter would be enough and I would be happy never seeing or hearing from them again, but my therapist made a point that physically standing up to my abusers could be very helpful and healing. She's not trying to convince me on either side but more that she wants me to consider what's best for me and what would give me the most closer.

 

Oh my gosh. That's such a terrible, tragic ordeal. I'm so sorry to hear those terrifyingly abusive, cold & disturbing events. What an utterly horrifying start in life for you.

 

Well done for summoning yourself to move away and look at your memories and your past in Therapy. That's really brave and strong of you & your anger about the whole thing is utterly justified.

 

I think what is important is to focus on your feelings. It sounds like it may be a good idea to explore writing a letter for yourself if you feel inclined to. Even if you write it fully you may not want to send it in the end; And you are not in anyway obligated to. It can be the case that the memories prove to be enough to help you make up your mind as to whether or not you want to interact with those people again.

 

Well done again on your decisions & take care.

 

 

 

Thanks very much, Bryndomus. I think I've already decided that if I choose to write a letter, that I will send it. I know my mother will probably hide it from my dad but at least that if I am to send it, I know I had the strength to do it, and that's good enough for me

 

My deep sympathies, T.F. Having never experienced a real sense of relaxation and joy in your life I know it can seem like any move you make is going to end in disaster. I would echo what bryndomus said about focusing on your feelings and talking through it with your therapist or in a journal.

 

 

Are you justified? That's probably not a helpful way of phrasing the question. Certainly you don't have to confront people with a violent history in person: trust your feelings. The truth is you don't know if you will ever want contact with them again. No matter how unlikely the possibility of change is, you may not want to completely rule out the possibility in the future. You can only say whether in this moment you want contact with them. If the answer is no, then in my opinion you aren't obligated to say anything. Your letter could be as simple as, "I'm taking a break from the family. When or if I'm ready to talk I'll be in touch."

 

Please keep us informed of your situation if you can. Cliches aside, it gets better.

 

Hi, Matt D. and thank you very much. I'm really not used to such empathy that it's almost overwhelming   At this very moment I am certain that I no longer want contact with my family. I never considered the option of sending a short message about taking a break from the family but I'll keep it in mind. I'm seeing my therapist this Friday so if anything interesting happens, I'll be sure to let you all know.

[Beour]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry for not giving any updates for a while - life has been a bit hectic!

 

I decided to write a letter to my parents and did it as part of my therapy by trying to connect with my feelings. My therapist has told me that I've made a breakthrough in my therapy and I feel quite proud of myself. It amazes how much I've changed within the past year. The letter in question will be sent this week. I'm not completely sure how I will react when I try to post those letters (one for each parent - an attempt to reach my father if my mother doesn't get a chance to hide it). I might feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders or maybe I'll freak out. It's hard to tell but either way, it's something I really want to do.

 

I would still love to call into the show but I've no idea what to ask as a main question 

[drkmdn]

This video really helped me gain clarity in a similar situation. Keep in mind that doing this might be opening the door to more hurt from them. I think there is always a little part of us that hopes they will read the letter, feel horrible, break down, realize what they've done.

 

The reality of that is much different.

 

I'm so sorry for what you went through and glad that you are getting help. No matter what you choose to do

 

Confronting Parents—Its Risk & Value

https://youtu.be/ua47SXnthxA

[kerou]

My immediate family (Father, mother, brother) and myself have DEFOO'd from our extended family

One of the best things we did was that we all legally had our last names changed (to different last names)

 

It's been a great tool in protecting our identities

[Beour]

Thank you so much for the videos, drkmdn. They were really informative and Mackler gives some sound advise of what to expect. However, I'm not DeFOOing in hope that my parents would show me love. I've come to realise that my parents never really loved me and the idea that they could is just so alien. What I hope for is that I never hear from them again, but how they react is still something I'm not entirely sure of.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I was just browsing different threads and don't have much to add in terms of your question, but I did want to say that I was really struck emotionally by how terrible your parents and upbringing was. For a young girl to be raised in such an environment requires nothing less than evil on the part of your parents and anyone else who refused to intervene. Your parents comes across as complete sociopaths with not a fiber of goodness or virtue in them. I am so impressed and astonished by your bravery and the path you took to deal with such darkness and tragedy. Kudos to you, I hope it gets increasingly better for you. I think the example you set is so strong and powerful.

[J. D. Stembal]

This thread has been very painful for me to read. That level of neglect and trauma is unforgivable. I am having trouble empathizing with it. Saying you have an ACE of seven doesn't put a face on the abuse, but when you consider that your mother abetted familial sexual abuse, it becomes very troubling to imagine the hostility of a family environment such as this. Your mother taught your brother how to abuse you by abusing him.

 

I sat on a defoo letter for about a month before I sent it. It was very difficult. I would get a few paragraphs into it and burst into tears, sobbing uncontrollably as I did when I was a child when my parents rejected me. It took me about a week to open the one I got back. I knew what the content of the letter was going to be before I read it. There were no surprises at all.

 

I wonder at the point of sending it, but it had to be done. I never have to see or speak to my parents again, and it feels liberating. I also had to cut off my cousin because I suspected my mother and her sister were using her to keep tabs on me.

[Beour]

Matthew, that is so incredibly kind of you. The amount of empathy and love I have received after such a short time on this forum puts a wonderfully warm feeling in my chest (literally).

 

It's an incredible feeling 

 

My immediate family (Father, mother, brother) and myself have DEFOO'd from our extended family

One of the best things we did was that we all legally had our last names changed (to different last names)

 

It's been a great tool in protecting our identities

 

That's a very good way of avoiding any more hurt and grief from your extended family. I live in another country but my family might be able to figure out where I work. I've specified in my letter that they are not to contact me and if they come to my work or home that I won't hesitate to get a restraining order. I'm also relying on the fact that my family are generally very lazy, feckless people 

[Merrifield]

I'm sorry you've had to experience such a horrible childhood.

Just a thought... If you mailed your letter to the foo inside a letter to a friend/collaborater in Ireland and asked the friend to post the letter to the foo you could probably throw them off your trail and limit any future search to Ireland. To get around your mother concealing it, you could also use a typewriter or have a male hand write on the letter addressed in your fathers name.

I'll be glad to see you get past it and get on with the best part of your life.

[Beour]

This thread has been very painful for me to read. That level of neglect and trauma is unforgivable. I am having trouble empathizing with it. Saying you have an ACE of seven doesn't put a face on the abuse, but when you consider that your mother abetted familial sexual abuse, it becomes very troubling to imagine the hostility of a family environment such as this. Your mother taught your brother how to abuse you by abusing him.

 

I sat on a defoo letter for about a month before I sent it. It was very difficult. I would get a few paragraphs into it and burst into tears, sobbing uncontrollably as I did when I was a child when my parents rejected me. It took me about a week to open the one I got back. I knew what the content of the letter was going to be before I read it. There were no surprises at all.

 

I wonder at the point of sending it, but it had to be done. I never have to see or speak to my parents again, and it feels liberating. I also had to cut off my cousin because I suspected my mother and her sister were using her to keep tabs on me.

 

There was an awful lot of enabling in my family, that's for sure. I can understand why my situation is difficult to empathise with because it was such a weird and awful situation that even I have had and still have trouble understanding it. It was so messed up that I spent most of my life trying to nomalise their behaviour and make excuses for my parents. Yet I felt a lot of grief and anger probably because I knew I was only fooling myself. And then I found a good therapist and Stefan Molyneux, both of them gave me the right language and the confidence to express myself.

 

DEFOO UPDATE: Friday I attempted to go to the post office and send the letters. As soon as I got a couple of meters near the entrance, my anxiety went through the roof and I started feeling nauseous. I walked away and looked for distractions to calm down. I walked back again and I felt even worse and did my best to suppress an anxiety attack (I've had 4 in my life time as far as I'm aware) so I walked away again. I ended up buying cigarettes (I'm trying to quit and find a healthier way to deal with stress) and sat outside in the sun to calm down. I started sending messages to my boyfriend, who was at work, telling him how I felt. He offered to do it with me after he finished work. And so together we walked to the post office. He squeezed my hand but I couldn't stop shaking. I managed to shove two letters at the lady behind the counter and asked to pay for registered post (where the recipient has to sign for it) and she popped them into the post box me.

 

So I did it. I officially DeFOO'd.

[J. D. Stembal]

There was an awful lot of enabling in my family, that's for sure. I can understand why my situation is difficult to empathise with because it was such a weird and awful situation that even I have had and still have trouble understanding it. It was so messed up that I spent most of my life trying to nomalise their behaviour and make excuses for my parents. Yet I felt a lot of grief and anger probably because I knew I was only fooling myself. And then I found a good therapist and Stefan Molyneux, both of them gave me the right language and the confidence to express myself.

 

DEFOO UPDATE: Friday I attempted to go to the post office and send the letters. As soon as I got a couple of meters near the entrance, my anxiety went through the roof and I started feeling nauseous. I walked away and looked for distractions to calm down. I walked back again and I felt even worse and did my best to suppress an anxiety attack (I've had 4 in my life time as far as I'm aware) so I walked away again. I ended up buying cigarettes (I'm trying to quit and find a healthier way to deal with stress) and sat outside in the sun to calm down. I started sending messages to my boyfriend, who was at work, telling him how I felt. He offered to do it with me after he finished work. And so together we walked to the post office. He squeezed my hand but I couldn't stop shaking. I managed to shove two letters at the lady behind the counter and asked to pay for registered post (where the recipient has to sign for it) and she popped them into the post box me.

 

So I did it. I officially DeFOO'd.

 

I began smoking again when I was thinking about writing my deFOO letter. You helped me spot the connection. Thank you. I was quit for about eight months. I'm still in the clear with regard to other recreational drugs and, in particular, alcohol, which is spectacular because I've almost reached a full year of sobriety. I've also had many anxiety attacks in my life time, which I had previously attributed to years of drug and alcohol abuse. I wonder if they had more to do with my parents than being high or drunk.

 

That's wonderful that you sent the letter! Be prepared for a response, though, if your family has your return address, which it sounds like they have.

 

I want to share with you my personal experience with defooing. I am troubled with the lack of emotion in my voice during the reading of my father's letter. My voice is often sterile and monotone, and I sometimes have to make a conscious effort to modulate my tone. I am fairly certain that it is my father's voice speaking through me.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMs95r6WdVY