TheSchwartz Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Today I came to realize how badly I want to be able to love myself, when I am not sure what it means or even very much what it feels like. If love is the involuntary response to virtue, what does it really mean to love yourself? Any thoughts would be welcome and very much appreciated!
Drew. Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 To love yourself as though you are a child and deserve to be loved, no matter what. To realize and accept that your failings and struggles are mostly a result of not being loved in the first place. 1
neeeel Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 To love yourself as though you are a child and deserve to be loved, no matter what. Are you talking about love as an involuntary response to the childs virtue ? . If not, what do you mean by love when you say "deserve to be loved no matter what"? Are there different kinds of love other than "involuntary response to virtue"?
Drew. Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 No, because even if a kid isn't virtuous, I still think that they deserve love. Children don't have moral responsibility (though they do develop more responsibility the older and more capable they become). I just think that it's a fundamental axiom "Children deserve to be loved." They deserved to be listened to, played with, hugged, held, told stories too, fed delicious meals, spoiled with treats, encouraged to be independent, etc. no matter what they do or who they are, simply because they're children. That includes the immature aspects of ourselves; they are frozen in time and pain because they didn't receive the love they needed. Personally, I don't like the definition "Love in an involuntary response to virtue." I've met people who are virtuous and I haven't loved them. I've respected them and admired them, but not the warm and fuzzy feelings that I associate with love. It's a response that internal to me. I don't know if you experience the same thing that I do, or if I can describe it to you and have it mean the same thing. 1
MMX2010 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 You cannot force yourself to love yourself, anymore than you can force yourself to get an erection while staring at the naked body of a repulsive woman. You only get to love yourself as a natural consequence of Being Right, Being Brave, Being Driven, and Chasing Your Dreams. You are one of many people who think that the feeling is the destination, rather than accepting that the feeling is the inevitable result of another, more important process - (that you've almost certainly been neglecting, which causes your problem). 1 1
neeeel Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 but what do you mean by love , as in , " they deserve love". Is the list you gave, "They deserved to be listened to, played with, hugged, held, told stories too, fed delicious meals, spoiled with treats, encouraged to be independent, etc" what it means to be loved? I am guessing that I didnt get love from my parents when I was a child, but I dont really know what it was I missed out on. I know what I didnt like about them, but if someone asks what it means to be loved, I dont really know.
TheSchwartz Posted April 9, 2015 Author Posted April 9, 2015 I am guessing that I didnt get love from my parents when I was a child, but I dont really know what it was I missed out on. I know what I didnt like about them, but if someone asks what it means to be loved, I dont really know. This is very similar to how I feel about it, with the exception that I thought that I did know what love was for quite a long time, only to realize that the 'love' that I thought I had experienced was very much not real. Personally, I don't like the definition "Love is an involuntary response to virtue." I've met people who are virtuous and I haven't loved them. I've respected them and admired them, but not the warm and fuzzy feelings that I associate with love. It's a response that's internal to me. I don't know if you experience the same thing that I do, or if I can describe it to you and have it mean the same thing. The only people that I have known don't fully align with the principles I hold, including myself. That is why I added that particular definition of love, as I had some suspicions that this was perhaps why I am not sure if I love myself, or even sure what love is. I have heard the definition "that warm and fuzzy feeling" as love so many times, and I associate that with what "love" I was given when I was younger. I still can't figure out if my response to what I thought was real love was in fact real love, or if it was a mirroring of the manipulative type of love that I received, or maybe something else entirely. Would you say that love is an involuntary response, if not to virtue, something else? Or is it a conscious response that can be changed at will?
Drew. Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 but what do you mean by love , as in , " they deserve love". Is the list you gave, "They deserved to be listened to, played with, hugged, held, told stories too, fed delicious meals, spoiled with treats, encouraged to be independent, etc" what it means to be loved? I am guessing that I didnt get love from my parents when I was a child, but I dont really know what it was I missed out on. I know what I didnt like about them, but if someone asks what it means to be loved, I dont really know. I'm sorry to hear that man. I can only recall a handful of moments where I received anything resembling love and affection from my parents. I expect that it'll be hard to connect to, but well worth while. Love is an emotion, just like anger, sadness, and fear. It'll come naturally to you if you clear the way to it. Those things are not love, but they are displays of love. The only people that I have known don't fully align with the principles I hold, including myself. That is why I added that particular definition of love, as I had some suspicions that this was perhaps why I am not sure if I love myself, or even sure what love is. I have heard the definition "that warm and fuzzy feeling" as love so many times, and I associate that with what "love" I was given when I was younger. I still can't figure out if my response to what I thought was real love was in fact real love, or if it was a mirroring of the manipulative type of love that I received, or maybe something else entirely. Would you say that love is an involuntary response, if not to virtue, something else? Or is it a conscious response that can be changed at will? It's an emotion. Just like how you can shape your thoughts to incite or dampen anger, the same can be done with love. But we don't have any real control over it. I think about how I experience love internally. I think that the best way that I can translate it to another person is that it is a joy-response based solely on the fact that something is alive/exists. I think that might be pretty universal. My particular experience is a feeling of warmth and comfort to that entity, and often my arms seize up so that I'm hugging myself.
Devon Gibbons Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Personally, I don't like the definition "Love in an involuntary response to virtue." I've met people who are virtuous and I haven't loved them. There's an "if" in the statement. Love is an involuntary response to virtue if we, ourselves, are virtuous. That's the argument. "Love is an involuntary response to virtue" without "if" disregards our necessary participation in the love relationship, if love is to be between self and other which it is. Which makes me wonder if we have a self-self. Because if I love myself, who does the loving? What is the difference between I and myself? Meta Today I came to realize how badly I want to be able to love myself, when I am not sure what it means or even very much what it feels like. Love is meeting that 'bad' feeling, and accepting it. Love is not a matter of "ability", but of choice. Love cannot exist without choice. The choice is virtue. I don't know how to describe the feeling of virtue, really. I suppose you feel high, and energetic, spirited - I guess is how I would describe it. Full of vitality and energy. It definitely does have an affect on the body, because it is an action of the body.
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