Bill Mollison - Permaculture Design Course videos

[Devon Gibbons]

Back in late 2012 I discovered Permaculture through a torrent file I found on the internets. Through this downloaded lecture series with Bill Mollison and Geoff Lawton I learned some principles in sustainable agriculture and sustainability in general. I thought it was a great introduction into sustainability from someone who seemed somewhat of a pioneer, he coined the term "Permaculture".

 

He was one of my first major exposures to academia as being mostly bullshit and people who don't give a shit about the planet and hypocrisy in general. Both lecturers believe in global warming through human emissions, and kind of push a socialistic agenda sorta like Agenda 21 or something. There's some nihilism about humanity each carries that's a bit revolting. Both lecturers are a bit narcissistic and use sustainability it seems to me as a sort of way to put themselves above others. 

 

I guess not the greatest ringing endorsement, but maybe you'd still find some interesting lessons contained within the series. There are many stories Bill relates from his past that are kind of enjoyable. I wonder if anyone else has been exposed to sustainable agriculture byway of Permaculture or Bill Mollison. 

 

 

Here's the First lecture - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cK8Qdd0l9o

I feel a bit sick that I actually watched all of these videos; I didn't have a methodology of evaluating the truth value of the many statements that are made. The "degree" is a scheme. 

 

There's a lot of propaganda about human caused climate change. Just to warn you. I'd be highly skeptical about all statements he makes. His method of propaganda is telling stories that are somewhat interesting relating his knowledge of ecology and corruptly mixing them together with this propaganda. 

[Merrifield]

I have not watched the entire lecture series but I have read parts of his book "Permaculture Designers' Manual" which is in itself basically a bible to permaculturists. Mollison defines permaculture as a design science and lays down only three ethics as the basis for what is permaculture.

1) care of the earth, 2) care of people, 3) return of surplus to the first two. There are factions whithin the permaculture community that like to interpret the third as some sort of call to redistribute wealth, but the book defines the third as a capitalist venture. Geoff Lawton, who inherited from Mollison control over the Australian based Permaculture Research Institute, has spent much time attempting to eradicate the socialistic redistribution faction from the movement.

Honestly, the degree is not a scheme. Mollison, a university professor, designed the program to keep it out of academia and the control of Universities. All one must do to qualify as a permaculture designer is complete a designers course. Anyone who has completed a designers course is technically qualified to teach a designers course. It places a large burden of responsibility on the student to seek out integrity. Instructors are only as good as their understanding and experience and this leaves the door wide open for charletons

[Devon Gibbons]

 

I have not watched the entire lecture series but I have read parts of his book "Permaculture Designers' Manual" which is in itself basically a bible to permaculturists. Mollison defines permaculture as a design science and lays down only three ethics as the basis for what is permaculture.
1) care of the earth, 2) care of people, 3) return of surplus to the first two. There are factions whithin the permaculture community that like to interpret the third as some sort of call to redistribute wealth, but the book defines the third as a capitalist venture. Geoff Lawton, who inherited from Mollison control over the Australian based Permaculture Research Institute, has spent much time attempting to eradicate the socialistic redistribution faction from the movement.
Honestly, the degree is not a scheme. Mollison, a university professor, designed the program to keep it out of academia and the control of Universities. All one must do to qualify as a permaculture designer is complete a designers course. Anyone who has completed a designers course is technically qualified to teach a designers course. It places a large burden of responsibility on the student to seek out integrity. Instructors are only as good as their understanding and experience and this leaves the door wide open for charletons

 

 

Could you give me further information going into how Geoff is eradicating the socialist faction in the movement? What exactly is the "faction"? What members populate it? I think that fundamentally, if people believe in anthropogenic climate change as I did going into permaculture, they're going to have been indoctrinated with fascist ideas attached to the global warming hoax. And that's perfectly fine, but you can't have virtue or integrity with fascism. And it would seem very hard to eradicate such ideologies without denouncing the hoax and attacking the pervasive propaganda that attracts people to Permaculture in the first place. I'd be interested in what he's changed his message to.

 

If the "instructors are only as good as their understanding and experience and this leaves the door wide open for charlatans", how is it that..."the degree not a scheme"? Are there standards that apply to a degree that make even charlatans who teach it valuable instructors?

[Devon Gibbons]

One thing I really remembered from the course was this:

 

[Merrifield]

Could you give me further information going into how Geoff is eradicating the socialist faction in the movement? What exactly is the "faction"? What members populate it? I think that fundamentally, if people believe in anthropogenic climate change as I did going into permaculture, they're going to have been indoctrinated with fascist ideas attached to the global warming hoax. And that's perfectly fine, but you can't have virtue or integrity with fascism. And it would seem very hard to eradicate such ideologies without denouncing the hoax and attacking the pervasive propaganda that attracts people to Permaculture in the first place. I'd be interested in what he's changed his message to.

Geoff is a permaculture promoter and it is that role that he takes on win doing interviews with capitalist minded permacuture practitioners (mostly podcasts i.e. Paul Wheaton, Permaculture Voices, The Survival Podcast, etc.). One faction is what Paul Wheaton calls "purple". I really don't know much about them but it seems they are distorting permaculture by adding in mysticism, spiritualism, and earth worship. I'm not aware that Lawton or Mollison have changed any message. They deliver the message(s) Mollison first put forward in his writings including the design manual.

 

If the "instructors are only as good as their understanding and experience and this leaves the door wide open for charlatans", how is it that..."the degree not a scheme"? Are there standards that apply to a degree that make even charlatans who teach it valuable instructors?

Yes, it does leave the door wide open for charlatan. Dare I speculate that there are charlatans posing as instructors/teachers/professors in nearly every school/college/university in the world. It definitly puts the responsibility to find a competent instructor squarley on the shoulders of the student.

[Mister Mister]

I read David Holmgren's book on Permaculture hoping for some good tips on gardening in a different way, instead I got a bunch of political and mystical BS.  It's too bad because I think this stuff could be very compatible with Anarchism, i.e. Working with plants and Nature in a win-win relationship for long-term success rather than trying to conform them to a Central plan with for short-term gains at the expense of long-term corruption.

[Merrifield]

This is the source, Bill Mollison. He and Geoff Lawton discuss with students what you have to do to teach permaculture.(4+ minutes)

It also includes a good exchange denouncing mysticism.

[Merrifield]

I read David Holmgren's book on Permaculture hoping for some good tips on gardening in a different way, instead I got a bunch of political and mystical BS. It's too bad because I think this stuff could be very compatible with Anarchism, i.e. Working with plants and Nature in a win-win relationship for long-term success rather than trying to conform them to a Central plan with for short-term gains at the expense of long-term corruption.

"Permaculture is anarchism."- Jack Spirko on "The Survival Podcast"

Don't let the writing of one man who, not unlike many others, is confused about his origins ruin permaculture for you.

[Mister Mister]

^No I wouldn't, I just wanted to share that I too was horrified and disappointed that such a compelling and promising idea is so often connected with all this other BS.  Sometimes people who have expertise in one field presume to be experts in everything else as well.  I've been into yoga, meditation, and tai chi, and so on, which is similar in that many of the people with great competence in these fields think they know something about psychology, ethics, politics, etc. when really they're full of shit. 

What do you mean "confused about his origins"?

And what resources besides the ones you've posted would you recommend?  Is there a good message board for example where I can get some feedback?

[Merrifield]

From what you've said about Holmgren's book, it sounds like he is mixing in spiritualism to say the least. I don't know because I haven't read it. I have heard in other places that he is quite "purple".

All I meant by Holmgren being "confused about his origins" is that he is seeking a higher spiritual authority.

 

www.permies.com is the biggest permaculture forums in the world. I like it.

It has lots of great info.

[Merrifield]

The auto correction feature messed up the permies site in my last post. Here it is again www.permies.com