How to Spot the Unempathetic: Reading Body Language

[Tservitive]

So, I've been curious about if reading body language can help one better spot an unempathetic person without talking to them. I do realize that this idea would not be true of everyone who shares certain body language and that this might sound as legitimate as phrenology, but what do you all think?

 

So far, my list looks like this:

- lack of eye contact

- loud/stomping foot steps

 

Not a very long list, but the two things that I found most universal in my life.

[Wuzzums]

Eye contact for humans is very important, it's a form of connection. It's a well known trick that in order to manipulate someone or lure them into a false sense of connection you mustn't break eye contact. For me constant eye contact has always been a red flag.

 

You're underestimating psychopaths if you think you can spot them by their body language. They practice that stuff in front of a mirror and can change it on a whim.

[Tservitive]

Wuzzums, you bring up a good point about psychopaths. They are incredibly good at acting as if they are not human predators.

 

Where I'm coming from is more the narcissist instead of the sociopath/psychopath and seeing if there are some common cues that, by themselves are probably meaningless, but point to something when accumulated.

 

Other traits I thought of:

-Chewing gum loudly

-Talking for extended periods of time in a quite area (like a library)

-Littering

 

I know this isn't quite body language, but my goal in this thread is to get a better idea of how to identify an unempathetic person without needing to get involved in a conversation. Thoughts?

[QueechoFeecho]

Taking up two seats on public transit by placing their backpack on the aisle seat, with multiple people standing.

[J. D. Stembal]

Good luck getting people to make eye contact if you are male. I look at people for a while and wait for them to make eye contact with me. Most do not ever make direct eye contact and only look at me peripherally. If they do, they look away immediately. This is a sign of the deep dysfunction and lack of trust in society.

 

Check out some of Elliot Hulse's body language/bioenergetics videos and his theories on non-verbal communication.

 

 

This TED talk by Amy Cuddy is an interesting female counterpoint to Elliot, which associates open postures with career success, testosterone and male dominance. Whereas Elliot uses empathetic language to describe strong and open postures, Amy focuses on how closed postures promote weakness, mainly in women, and are a side effect of being judged. She goes into an anecdotal story about how she was afflicted by the "imposter syndrome" in graduate school.

 

Then, contrast the speaking qualities of both. Personally, I feel more empowered listening to Elliot, but perhaps I have a male bias. I have the feeling that Elliot cares about me through his use of interpersonal communication, and body language.

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are

 

 

Here is an unpacked version of the same lecture given to a predominantly female Harvard class.

 

 

Notice how women in power poses are subjectively depicted by Amy as empowering while males are intimidating, domineering or rude.

[Lingum]

Wuzzums post made me think about something I saw in (I think) BBC Horizon a while back. From Psychology Today
 

As my fellow Psychology Today blogger Marisa Mauro has pointed out, psychologists have long been known that the more psychopathic a person is, the more easily they can identify potential victims. Indeed, they can do so just by watching the way a person moves. In one study, test subjects watched videos of twelve individuals walking, shot from behind, and rated how easily they could be mugged. As it happened, some of the people in the videotapes really had been mugged -- and the most psychopathic of the subjects were able to tell which was which.

(...)And what was it about these people that made them seem vulnerable? A later study found that the men were picking up on whole suite of nonverbal cues, including the length of their stride, how they shifted their weight, and how high they lifted their feet. Taken together, these cues gave the psychopathic men a rough gauge of how confident their potential victims were. Body language that implies a lack of confidence --- read: socially submissive --- includes lack of eye contact, fidgeting of the hands and feet, and the avoidance of large gestures when shifting posture.

 

Eye contact for humans is very important, it's a form of connection. It's a well known trick that in order to manipulate someone or lure them into a false sense of connection you mustn't break eye contact. For me constant eye contact has always been a red flag.

You're underestimating psychopaths if you think you can spot them by their body language. They practice that stuff in front of a mirror and can change it on a whim.

 
Typically, psychopaths exhibit muted facial expressions and body language. What I find fascinating, is that even though studies show time and time again, how much we can read from body language and facial expressions, even how much we register sub-consciously, we are terrible at spotting lying and insincerity. I suspect it has to do with social lubrication and avoiding confrontations and escalation, that there's a barrier between sub-conscious and conscious, as self-defense.
 
While holding eye contact indicates confidence and dominance, breaking eye contact occasionally is considered an empathetic gesture that puts others at ease in our presence. I've read that never breaking eye contact is a trait associated with psychopathy and lack of empathy.
 
I started becoming more aware of my eye contact recently, and started experimenting with it. The first thing I noticed in one-on-one interactions is that you often take turns breaking away. Secondly, the more uncomfortable I feel in an interaction, the more discomfort I feel holding eye contact with people. The person I'm interacting with picks up on it, and becomes shifty. Thirdly, when I feel confident and relaxed, I notice other people breaking eye contact more often.
 
If you feel uncomfortable with someones' presence, I would consider that a good indicator that they lack empathy. They're unaware of how you react to their body language, and don't pick up on your discomfort. Something just feels off. Maybe they gaze at you when you're not interacting with them, sit or stand too close to you, or stare at you without emotion when you're talking. Empathetic people, on the other hand, will pick up on your discomfort, and feel it themselves. They readjust their body language according to their surroundings. In that sense, social interaction is a complicated song and dance of body language, with dominance at stake.
 
Interestingly, there's two guys in my circle of friends that I've always felt uncomfortable around. I used to say that I feel like we're not on the same wavelength, even though I have nothing against them. The first one tends to be overly affectionate and stands way too close to me when he excitedly greets me. The second one has trouble understanding social conventions and dressing appropriately. Both of them overestimate our familiarity and relationship. I was told by my other friends that the first one has a learning disability and the second one is on the autistic spectrum.

[J. D. Stembal]

If you feel uncomfortable with someones' presence, I would consider that a good indicator that they lack empathy.

 

Is the anxious person demonstrating empathy? It's not as though being uncomfortable is, in itself, an empathetic overture.

 

For example, if I see a person showing the outwards signs of anxiety around me, how can I be certain that I am the cause of it without asking them about it? What if the true cause of the discomfort is their abusive father, and I happen to look like him?

 

 

 

Empathetic people, on the other hand, will pick up on your discomfort, and feel it themselves.They readjust their body language according to their surroundings. In that sense, social interaction is a complicated song and dance of body language, with dominance at stake.

 

This reminds me of the feminist explanation behind the theory of manspreading, and why it's such a hot button issue on public transportation. How dare those stinky males display dominance on the bus?

[Lingum]

I don't know if being uncomfortable is related to empathy.

 

You can't really tell why someone is uncomfortable, from their body language, which is why empathy can be confusing at times.

 

I would imagine they rationalize it as "What if a woman wants that seat, but is too shy to ask? That would be terrible because women deserve seats. They do so much already." The dominance (and comfort) aspect of it is probably what it's all about. Feminists want men isolated and submissive.

 

Keep in mind, I was only saying it was a good indication. I don't think there's something wrong with making someone uncomfortable, and certainly, there are times when you have to ignore it out of conviction. Just be on the lookout.

[QueechoFeecho]

While lots of the things stated above about eye contact and other elements of body language are generally true, it's important to recognize, like at the end of post #6, that we don't all follow the same behavioral rules.  Some things are elements of culture and historical experience.

 

For example I was in chess club in college, and this one graduate student joined.  He stood uncomfortably close to other members of the club.  They'd back up 6 inches, and he'd close the gap.  He wasn't aggressing or intimidating anyone, but he had come from India and had a different sense of what appropriate personal space is.  I noticed when he interacted with some other Indian grad students that joined later, they all did the same thing, and none were off-put by the others.  But when cultures collides, discomfort arose.

 

tl;dnr = More than one reason is always possible for the same behavior observed in different people.

[MMX2010]

 

 
If you feel uncomfortable with someones' presence, I would consider that a good indicator that they lack empathy. They're unaware of how you react to their body language, and don't pick up on your discomfort. Something just feels off. Maybe they gaze at you when you're not interacting with them, sit or stand too close to you, or stare at you without emotion when you're talking. Empathetic people, on the other hand, will pick up on your discomfort, and feel it themselves. They readjust their body language according to their surroundings. In that sense, social interaction is a complicated song and dance of body language, with dominance at stake.
 

 

 

One caveat, though. 

 

When people get uncomfortable with my presence, it's because I'm making an excellent argument and refusing to break eye-contact in response to their breaking of eye-contact.  At one of the FDR NYC meetings, I was making an argument about the general behavior of women when the "listener" immediately broke eye-contact (less than three seconds in).  I spoke for a little bit then fell silent, waiting for him to re-establish eye-contact.  He re-established eye-contact, so I continued to speak, until he interrupted me by asking, "Is your food getting cold?"  And on and on and on...

 

He wasn't very philosophically sound, and afterwards he complained that certain "strong personalities" were "dominating the meeting" by "speaking their opinions and expecting you to agree with them." 

 

Long story short, it's possible to try and dominate a social group by accusing its members of being non-empathetic.  So don't create the "Empathetic = Non-Dominant and Dominant = Non-Empathetic" generalization.  It's not only wrong, but it also makes you vulnerable to being emotionally manipulated away from good arguments. 

[Tservitive]

 

If you feel uncomfortable with someones' presence, I would consider that a good indicator that they lack empathy. They're unaware of how you react to their body language, and don't pick up on your discomfort. Something just feels off. Maybe they gaze at you when you're not interacting with them, sit or stand too close to you, or stare at you without emotion when you're talking. Empathetic people, on the other hand, will pick up on your discomfort, and feel it themselves. They readjust their body language according to their surroundings. In that sense, social interaction is a complicated song and dance of body language, with dominance at stake.

 

Is the anxious person demonstrating empathy? It's not as though being uncomfortable is, in itself, an empathetic overture.

 

For example, if I see a person showing the outwards signs of anxiety around me, how can I be certain that I am the cause of it without asking them about it? What if the true cause of the discomfort is their abusive father, and I happen to look like him?

 

I have a possible solution to this particular question. Could it be that if one is normally fine but experiences anxiety on occasion with particular people, then the anxiety may be a good indicator to distrust someone? I realize that it's not full proof and that its not a good rule by itself, but perhaps it works as more of a consideration among other stacking factors.

[J. D. Stembal]

I have a possible solution to this particular question. Could it be that if one is normally fine but experiences anxiety on occasion with particular people, then the anxiety may be a good indicator to distrust someone? I realize that it's not full proof and that its not a good rule by itself, but perhaps it works as more of a consideration among other stacking factors.

 

When dealing with new people, by all means, go with your gut instinct regarding trustworthiness.

 

I want to go back to the videos from Elliot and Amy. By watching just one minute of each of them speaking, which person do you trust more and why? I'm tossing this question out to everyone, not just Tservitive.

[PGP]

"Imposter syndrome" is a hedge against incompetence. If your not successful, it's because you are made to feel uncomfortable in being competent. If you are successful, it's because you have had to prove yourself even more than the "dominant" group. 

There will always be a branch for these people to cling on to.

When I was in school, rape was presented as a man overpowering a woman. It was presented as being about power, not sex. 

Now it is about sex. It is about sex and in being so, it is used to exert power over the male gender.

 

It all comes down to power, that's all. 

[Wuzzums]

 Typically, psychopaths exhibit muted facial expressions and body language. What I find fascinating, is that even though studies show time and time again, how much we can read from body language and facial expressions, even how much we register sub-consciously, we are terrible at spotting lying and insincerity. I suspect it has to do with social lubrication and avoiding confrontations and escalation, that there's a barrier between sub-conscious and conscious, as self-defense.

 

 

I think you're right about this. If we're not honest with ourselves we can't be honest with other people and we invite other people to be dishonest with us. We choose a reality and trick ourselves into believing it's the truth to avoid an unpleasant consequence. We know the truth is important, but what's important is not always what we want.

 

[MMX2010]

I want to go back to the videos from Elliot and Amy. By watching just one minute of each of them speaking, which person do you trust more and why? I'm tossing this question out to everyone, not just Tservitive.

 

I'll give the most hilarious answer ever. 

 

At first, I trust Amy more because she's pretty, female, older, and I want to sleep with her.  My hindbrain says that a smart, attractive woman in a scientific field constantly gets bombarded with, "You don't really know what you're talking about.", and "Did your man do your work for you?", and "She must've slept her way to where she is now." - so the plan is to be the opposite of that and see what happens. 

 

That same hindbrain views Elliot Hulse as sexual competition that overshadows me in many ways, particularly in ways crucial to Short-Term mating.  So I deem him untrustworthy, so that I can communicate that untrustworthiness to others - hoping that they choose me instead of him. 

 

But then my hindbrain says, "You idiot!  Just orbit around Elliot Hulse, because there's only one of him and hundreds of admiring women - and it's not like he can service them all!"  This counter-argument makes Elliot and Amy equally trust-worthy. 

 

---------------------

 

The tl;dr version of my argument is, "There are too many factors that determine whether we trust someone.  And many of those factors, especially relating to sexual competition, are sub-conscious and automatic.  This automatic nature suggests that Tservitive is asking a question that cannot be rationally answered, since the majority of why we decide to trust is automatic and irrational." 

[Freedom4TheVirtuous]

So, I've been curious about if reading body language can help one better spot an unempathetic person without talking to them. I do realize

that this idea would not be true of everyone who shares certain body language and that this might sound as legitimate as phrenology, but what do you all think?

 

So far, my list looks like this:

- lack of eye contact

- loud/stomping foot steps

 

Not a very long list, but the two things that I found most universal in my life.

Yes.

 

However - aren't the unempathetic everywhere?

 

I'd say the goal is more like to find the empathetic.

 

But then again.

 

For me it's the selective empathetic based on a rational assessment of Good/Evil...

 

Or else everything you share with that person can fall into the wrong hands....

 

And if they don't think there's such thing as Evil - then you will become the bad guy.

 

I find this to be the greatest challenge to any Philosopher that has a heart along with his head.

[shirgall]

Speaking of Amy Cuddy, it's worth looking at her TED talk about power poses, too:

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are

 

Oops, I notice that one of the youtube videos is her talk after all, I guess it just bears repeating...