10 year old afraid of dying. Your thoughts

[wdiaz03]

Hi all,

 

I need your advice on how to talk with my 10y old son.

 

A few days ago he started approaching me and telling me that he can't get death out of his mind. That this makes him very afraid. and He would start getting emotional at his point in the conversation.

 

I have asked him what he pictures and what makes him afraid, HE says he pictures himself as an old man in his bed about to die. he also shows concern about time passing to quickly for him, like if death is approaching faster than he likes.

 

I have talked to him in different occasions and pretty much reiterated the same suggestions on this thread:

 

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/43610-6yo-daughter-asks-about-death/

 

After our talks he tells me he feels better and that he is glad that we talked.

 

then a few days later he would tell me again that he thought about death again and that it scares him.

 

I have told him that if he sees himself as an old man, means he lived a long life. and that in that time he could have done many things and enjoyed life. again he tells me he feels better...

 

I would like to hear your thoughts on what i should be asking or tell him to help him understand, I have thought of telling him how I view and deal with those thoughts myself, but can he relate?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

BTW, I should mention that he is not a typical 10 year old in the sense that he is of above average intelligence and maturity.

[Crallask]

If it were to breed any hope, you could tell him that the possibility for preventing and even reversing aging theoretically exists.

[Devon Gibbons]

"I would like to hear your thoughts on what i should be asking or tell him to help him understand, I have thought of telling him how I view and deal with those thoughts myself, but can he relate?"

 

Tell me if this is off base, but because of the 'should' in there I was wondering: is there much of an emotional connection between you and him that you feel when you're talking about death and dying with him? Since you haven't told him yet of how you view mortality and aging and how you deal with those thoughts yet, is there something that you are hessitant to share with him? I'm curious what you'd tell him if you told him right now what you thought of saying.

 

Also, has he hit puberty?

[regevdl]

I was born in '79 and around the same age I would have panic attacks related on the thought of dying and then it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy because of my panic attack/hyperventilation I really DID feel like I was dying.  I came from a strict Roman Catholic upbringing and so fear of death and hell was always imminent.  Anyway, I mentioned the year I was born in because had it been a kid of this day and age....I probably would have been pumped up on meds.  Fortunately I was a rural 80s kids and the 'legal drugs' weren't all the rage back then that I was aware of.  I digress.

 

My parents were of no help during these attacks or even after as I made it clear to them my phobia of death and dying.  They thought going to funerals would get me 'used to it'...only made it worse.  They would never talk and made me feel like a burden about the whole thing.  It was humiliating. 

 

I wish they had talked to me as you are with your son so, first....even if it's not giving you or him instant relief or rather, longer lasting relief, keep allowing these discussions to occur. 

 

Looking back on my experience, it's hard to say what would have worked but knowing how I got through other emotional challenges at a young age I will share this for what it's worth:

 

Suggest he talk about or journal his dreams.  If he wants you to read them great, or he can keep them private.

 

My fear was dying too soon (I never pictured myself as an old person and your response to him was superb btw!) So maybe this won't apply to him but since I always fear dying 'too soon' or at a young age, upon my reflection I realized it was a frustration for not living to my fullest...even at a young age, I lived under such strict circumstances that I felt like it was killing me and stunting me. It literally did. 

 

So again, since his fear is dying at a 'normal' age maybe talk about 'cycle of life' and being honored to be alive and the 'miracle' of life and how among a gazillion dust starts HE has a chance to be alive, etc.  To be completely overwhelmed by the opportunity and inspired by it rather than skip over it and jump to the 'bitter' end. 

 

Does he have access around old people...if so in what context?  If he only knows sickly, miserable, crabby old people....maybe remove him from those environments and introduce to full of life or having lived a full life elderly people. 

 

I agree with "marginalist" point in that do some self assessment and see how you are projecting your views of death (whether positive or negative) and try to understand if they can come off confusing or scary to a child his age (even if you feel they are positive viewpoints, etc.).  This goes for anything with children.  Often adults take for granted what they are comfortable with and forget how a child might be experiencing.  not saying you are doing that but always a good habit to check in with yourself from time to time. 

 

 

And sometimes it's good just to do process of elimination of any obvious triggers.  When this fear began, was it triggered instantly or slowly growing?  Maybe ask when he started feeling this way before he spoke up.  usually when they speak up...it's been going on for quite some time.

 

Did he see any movies that depicted death and such?

 

Ask if he would LIKE or be interested in hearing your viewpoints on death.  If he wants, then share.  Preface it with that he doesn't have to agree but just to help him understand that everyone goes through their own adjustment and way to face our end.  your viewpoint isn't and shouldn't be used to 'fix' his challenge rather only serve as one example. 

 

 

I know at that age it's really hard but you say he's above average intelligence.  So in that case try to narrow down the fear.  such as, "what is it about death that you fear?"  He should really think about it before answering.  Because if he sees himself as an old man, it's assumed he understands you, the father will not be around.  My fear was  dying while I still had connection with my effed up family and good friends and leaving them behind.  But if he's old, he probably understands you too will have died by then.  So maybe clarify these things and pinpoint what exactly it is about the death he fears.  Leaving his family behind?  etc? 

 

I think when he understands his own fear, he can manage it more if that makes sense.

 

Best of luck.  I really feel for your son, my experience was HELL on earth and I could only DREAM of having one, let alone both of my parents put in a tiny effort to console me in any rational manner.  All the best!! 

[wdiaz03]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Crallask: I would be hesitant to mention this ( I could be wrong) but I would like him to understand the importance of quality of life first before quantity. Maybe once he understand the importance of a quality life then extending its quantity might be like a bonus.

 

marginalist: Good question that I got a chance to explore this morning. He woke me up a few minutes before my alarm to tell me that he had been thinking about death again, I asked him if he wanted to hear how I viewed death. He said he wanted to hear it. I told him that I felt that because life was finity that that is what made it special. That if we were beings that lived forever we would take life for granted and not enjoy it. I told him that is how I coped with a finite life and with problems in life, that to have problems makes the moments of happines much sweeter.

He said that cavemen used to have a lot of problems.

I told him that because of that, when they had a chance to sit around a fire and enjoy that moment it most have felt amazing.

He agreed.

I told him that if the faucet always provided clean water no matter what. the water would not be a big deal. But if we were in a desert and finally found some water that it woult taste like the best water in the world.

He also agreed then said that if he ate ice cream all the time that it would not be special anymore.

Then he told me that we wanted to give up his cereal for breakfast since he has been having it for years and it no longer felt special (ironic that the brand is Special K), he now wants eggs and bacon.

I told him about an immortal robot that would just sit there and do nothing because nothing had any meaning anymore. I also told him that death is easier when you know you leave a little bit of us behind in our children, Like a huge tree that drops his seeds, if the tree did not died it would block the sun and hurde the nutrients, and the little sapplings would not have a chance.

 

He felt much better at the time but he felt bad again on his way to school and his mom took him to the beach instead.

 

As far as my thoughts on death I tend to agree with what Mises said in "Human Action" about how we are how we are because we live in a world of scarcity and economic problems. How humans in order to remove felt uneasiness have evolved to solve complex problems by reason. Without these challenges there would have been little pressure to reason and thinking at all. "Acting and Thinking man is the product of a universe of scarcity in which whatever well-being can be attained is the prize of toll and trouble, of conduct popularly called economic" - Human Action, Ludwig von Mises

 

This always resonates with me when I think of death an when problems arrise and its what helps me keep going and accept the inevitable end.

 

regevdl Thank you for sharing your story I'm sorry for what you had to deal with as a child. I will keep probing. I like your advice of asking more questions, help him figure out where it is comming from.

 

[Pepin]

He does have a point. Death is kind of scary. Just because you or I have dealt with it psychology doesn't mean it isn't scary, rather it is just something we accept.

 

What is somewhat helpful but also a little disturbing is the idea that at some point, you'll want to die. This is because there are two choices, either nonexistence at some point, or existence forever.There is no other alternative, if you don't want to die, then you want to live for trillion upon trillions upon trillions of years. I think I'd be fine with living for thousands of years, but billions?

 

I don't know how good this suggestion is as I don't have kids and I don't know how they think, but framing the question in terms of "how long would you want to live" might be more helpful. If he understands the time scale involved in living forever, he'll likely say that at some point he wants to die, just not anytime soon. That would open a conversation about how long he'd have to live to be satisfied. What would he have to see, what would he have to do, where would he have to go?

[NotDarkYet]

My view:

 

-The goal of life is to grow old happily.

 

-Worrying about growing old gets in the way of that goal.

[Mister Mister]

Everyone is afraid of death to some degree.  Have you ever felt this fear?  If so, you can share that with him, and how you've dealt with it.  Assure him that it is natural to some degree, every living thing fears death, but nevertheless the drama of life goes on.  From what you've told me, maybe what he really fears is dying with significant regrets.  In this case, channel this fear into living a more full, courageous, happy life.  Leave all the chips on the table so to speak.  Being dead is not such a horrible thing, it is the absence of being, the closest we can experience is a deep, deep, dreamless sleep, or possibly meditation.  What is really horrible is being dead inside while still alive.

To quote a rather cheesy line from a kind of silly movie, "Every man dies.  But not every man truly lives."

[regevdl]

Thank you for sharing.  That is a very intimate moment and is so special.  I love the way you worded your perspective.  It calmed ME down!  lol  But seriously, that was beautifully put. 

 

I do hope you/him/mother find the source of it.  It seems to me, again...just a random sense observation that since he feels better in them moment but it isn't long lasting in that when he walks away from the conversation, might mean he is trying to superimpose different perspectives into his fear and it doesn't fit because the source of the fear is unknown.  As in, he heard your very smart and acceptable perspective and it seems to make sense to him in general but possibly when he is out of 'that moment' he tries to apply it into his situation and fear and something doesn't match up for him and the fear once again takes control. 

 

you mentioned that the last instance occurred before you woke up.  If it's safe to assume that was after he himself woke up, so he might be having dreams that are triggering this and why journaling my be useful before he talks or hears other input.  If it is dreams, that may not be the end of the line because the you must find out what is causing these types of dreams, etc.   After he journals, then the discussion can begin or the writings can be reviewed, etc. 

 

Again, bravo on your dedication to facilitating his discomfort! 

[Libertus]

He is afraid of dying because if he dies now, his life would have been pointless. He hasn't done anything with it yet. This fear goes away when he starts on a path of fulfillment, meaning, he needs to understand that what he's doing right is the best he can. Become strong. Educated. Good. Kind. Patient. Resilient. So in a way he's looking for fulfillment, and sometimes risk taking is part of that, and at the same time, in terms of security and safety, not take unrealistic or unnecessary risk. He is looking for some spiritual guidance or plain life advice.

[Better Future]

Maybe you could explain to him that whenever he thinks about death it triggers his survival instinct, which is why he feels fear when he has those thoughts. You could explain to him how natural selection results in organisms with very strong survival instinct. Humans are unique in that they can understand that they will die. Thoughts that trigger fear in us.

 

I suggest helping him to make peace with his realization and then work to replace his thoughts of death with positive, happy thoughts. Ask him how he felt in 2003 before he was born, how did he feel then? Was it scary? Remind him that when he dies it will be just like that again. Perfect peace. Nothing to be afraid of.

 

Every night before he goes to sleep you could discuss with him the things he loves to do. If you tell him not to think about it then he will probably think about it more, triggering even more fear.

[wdiaz03]

Thanks all for the responses.

 

Last night my son told me that he thought about death again and that he was not afraid but his body was, I don't know what to make of this, maybe he understands that rationally he has nothing to fear but that he still has deep emotions.

 

I followed the advice of postponing the talk since it was right before bed. I hope to explore more this weekend.

 

Thanks again

[Eh Steve]

These ideas aren't from links or professionals just my own amature noodling.  This isn't anything I've dealt with for a child or even something I've struggled with myself so take this all with a huge grain of salt:

 

So instead!  I googled a bit more and found another useful tip from a non-amatuer

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11075311/Children-and-the-fear-of-death.html

 

The basic idea here..you can read more, but basically you set up a ritualized time in the day for him to have his worries and discuss them with you.  That takes a lot of the randomness and bed time prompting out of it... which is when his mind is going to wander and these fears come up.  And gives him a certainty that these worries will be discussed (among others worries he may have in his life at some point).  I think it takes a lot of stress away from your son to know he doesn't need to come to you when he's worried, that it is sort of a routine thing you two deal with daily at some point.

 

The advice at the end is interesting from a positive psychologist moment: basically adding the reasons being alive is fun rather than focusing too too much (though not ignoring) the unpleasant reality of death.

 

Now onto my non-sense that may or may not be helpful.

 

So it sounds like he is intellectually understanding he's in no actual danger.  If this were not the case I'd consider talking a bit about illness and doctors visits and maybe data on how long people live.  Dying at his age is really really unlikely, that might be useful to figure out.  It is possible in my mind a doctors visit to give him a clean bill of health might be helpful.  And perhaps one for you and any partner you may have might sooth his mind if he's worried about others.

 

He's been worried about this for what seems like long enough to consider heading over to a child psychologist.  I'm not sure if he's there yet but what I've found is typically a six month period.  If I recall correctly he's a few months into this worry?  I think taking advice from professionals is good stuff, whether that be in articles or with a real life counselor.  And it helps not having to worry whether that Eh Steve guy is giving good advice (which frankly I don't know if I am )

 

It is interesting he's saying his body and mind disagree on the fear.  That would be an area to explore perhaps asking him what his body has to say about it.  One interesting thing that comes to mind is....the way I see it there are a few fears of death.  Fear of death itself as an experience, fear of dying or being ill at some point, or being afraid you are currently at risk of dying or feeling ill.  It is pretty typical for kids to be afraid of robbers breaking in or monsters in the closet which resemble this fear, which is less of death and more of being attacked or unsafe.

 

It is also curious to understand exactly what his fear of death feeling is.  Could it just be that he is trying to get a good grasp of the concept of self-generated fear?  Perhaps that is a possibility that he's not particularly used to fear, especially fear generated by his own thoughts.

 

I hope some of this is helpful.  I think the idea of a sitdown time each day to talk about worries is a pretty good idea.  Though a sitdown time in general to talk about hopes and dreams and cool stuff might help to not get overly negative.

 

I hope things get better Diaz, let us know how things are going if you can

[GA_Freeman]

I want to offer reassurance as much as possible.  I have two boys and they both have had fascination with death in different ways.  My experience is that fear comes from the fact of realizing death is final.  The thing that helped my 12 year old the most was when our dog died because he was able to see death, explore the feelings, mourn and ultimately continue life.  The best thing in my experience is handling it the way you are, by allowing him to express and acknowledge his feelings.  

 

Here is an interesting take on the feelings:

 

https://www.hospicenet.org/html/talking.html

Developmental Stages 

Studies show that children go through a series of stages in their understanding of death. For example, preschool children usually see death as reversible, temporary, and impersonal. Watching cartoon characters on television miraculously rise up whole again after having been crushed or blown apart tends to reinforce this notion.

Between the ages of five and nine, most children are beginning to realize that death is final and that all living things die, but still they do not see death as personal. They harbor the idea that somehow they can escape through their own ingenuity and efforts. During this stage, children also tend to personify death. They may associate death with a skeleton or the angel of death, and some children have nightmares about them.

From nine or ten through adolescence, children begin to comprehend fully that death is irreversible, that all living things die, and that they too will die some day. Some begin to work on developing philosophical views of life and death. Teenagers, especially, often become intrigued with seeking the meaning of life. Some youngsters react to their fear of death by taking unnecessary chances with their lives. In confronting death, they are trying to overcome their fears by confirming their “control” over mortality.

The Individual Experience 
While it can be helpful to know that children go through a series of stages in the way they perceive death, it is important to remember that, as in all growth processes, children develop at individual rates. It is equally important to keep in mind that all children experience life uniquely and have their own personal ways of expressing and handling feelings. Some children ask questions about death as early as three years of age. Others may outwardly appear to be unconcerned about the death of a grandparent, but may react strongly to the death of a pet. Some may never mention death, but act out their fantasies in their play; they may pretend that a toy or pet is dying and express their feelings and thoughts in their make-believe game, or they may play “death games” with their friends, taking turns dying or developing elaborate funeral rituals.

 

No matter how children cope with death or express their feelings, they need sympathetic and nonjudgmental responses from adults. Careful listening and watching are important ways to learn how to respond appropriately to a child’s needs.

[Better Future]

Last night my son told me that he thought about death again and that he was not afraid but his body was, I don't know what to make of this

 

Maybe you missed my post.

 

Maybe you could explain to him that whenever he thinks about death it triggers his survival instinct, which is why he feels fear when he has those thoughts. You could explain to him how natural selection results in organisms with very strong survival instinct. Humans are unique in that they can understand that they will die. Thoughts that trigger fear in us.

[wdiaz03]

Sorry BF,

 

That's a good point, thanks for pointing it out.