Sean V Posted May 1, 2015 Posted May 1, 2015 I think this is exciting. I've been in and out of therapy for years and I've definitely found the most effective therapies to be some of the ones listed in the video such as IFS and Focusing. Does anyone have any experience with Coherence Therapy or any of the other ones listed? 3
Eh Steve Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 I've been loosely studying Coherence Therapy for years but haven't been trained or experienced it personally. If the effects can be proven empirically (they only have one study out last I checked) this would be a huge deal for psychotherapy. My current plan is to work the framework of Coherence therapy into IFS as a pet project of mine. Basically a way of negotiating with various parts. In the IFS system I'm sure you could redefine the terms within the coherence model to suit the system and possibly enhance the process a tremendous amount. Here are some more interviews with Ecker if you're interested discussing coherence therapy and memory reconsolidation: http://shrinkrapradio.com/330-unlocking-the-emotional-brain-with-bruce-ecker-m-a/ https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/reconsolidation-a-universal-integrative-framework-for-highly-effective-psychotherapy/ He had two interviews with Dr. Van Nuys over at mentalhelp.net on his wise counsel podcast but I guess they are transitioning away from that podcast :/ Can't seem to find the transcripts right now. Edit: The wise counsel podcast interviews of Ecker appear to still be grabbable on iTunes if you want to listen. It is a very very interesting methodology and I really appreciate that it is more of a framework. He talks about how he formed it by studying his experience with clients and figuring out the days where rapid change happened and then figuring out why. And you can plug it into all kinds of different therapies with similar emotional experiential techniques. It has yet to be proven from a rigorous scientific standpoint but is very very promising in a way I'm not seeing from any other psychotherapy at the moment. I'm delighted to see it being posted about here, it is fascinating stuff.
Sean V Posted May 6, 2015 Author Posted May 6, 2015 I've been loosely studying Coherence Therapy for years but haven't been trained or experienced it personally. If the effects can be proven empirically (they only have one study out last I checked) this would be a huge deal for psychotherapy. My current plan is to work the framework of Coherence therapy into IFS as a pet project of mine. Basically a way of negotiating with various parts. In the IFS system I'm sure you could redefine the terms within the coherence model to suit the system and possibly enhance the process a tremendous amount. Here are some more interviews with Ecker if you're interested discussing coherence therapy and memory reconsolidation: http://shrinkrapradio.com/330-unlocking-the-emotional-brain-with-bruce-ecker-m-a/ https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/reconsolidation-a-universal-integrative-framework-for-highly-effective-psychotherapy/ He had two interviews with Dr. Van Nuys over at mentalhelp.net on his wise counsel podcast but I guess they are transitioning away from that podcast :/ Can't seem to find the transcripts right now. Edit: The wise counsel podcast interviews of Ecker appear to still be grabbable on iTunes if you want to listen. It is a very very interesting methodology and I really appreciate that it is more of a framework. He talks about how he formed it by studying his experience with clients and figuring out the days where rapid change happened and then figuring out why. And you can plug it into all kinds of different therapies with similar emotional experiential techniques. It has yet to be proven from a rigorous scientific standpoint but is very very promising in a way I'm not seeing from any other psychotherapy at the moment. I'm delighted to see it being posted about here, it is fascinating stuff. Hey, Thanks for posting those links. I'd really like to here your thoughts on how to combine both Coherence Therapy and IFS. From my understanding, the positive changes in IFS come from the unburdening of an exiled part which is something that happens totally inside the person. On the other hand Coherence therapy is about seeking out experiences in the real world that contradict the underlying schema or belief of the individual. Am I right about this? How would you go about reconciling these two? Thanks
Eh Steve Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I'm a bit of a novice in both fields so this isn't something I can do perfectly just yet. Keeping that in mind here is how I think it would go. Coherence therapy could be more aptly called "The process to trigger a disruption and rewriting of memories". This is mentioned in the end of Ecker's presentation of how the steps in Coherence Therapy can be plugged into many therapies which are similar. IFS, EMDR, Hakomi, Focusing, EFT, ACT (affect centered). These are all known as experiential therapies. They tend to have a guiding philosophy of the emotional re-experience of feelings rather than examining the cognitive components of beliefs. They also tend to be non-counteractive, which is integral in Coherence, of believing your feelings/behaviors have an emotionally compelling reason to exist. So rather than fight your behaviors or feelings you seek to understand them. The process in Coherence therapy can be translated into all these different therapies. In IFS I believe it would be phrased as a way of negotiating between your parts. You do not fight your firefighters/protectors who are presenting problematic symptoms (overeating, depression etc.). You say "I bet you are doing this for an emotionally compelling reason, lets explore etc.". This will lead you to the harmed part the protector is trying to protect, I believe these are called exiles. This is the part which is generating the need for the problematic behavior. Often we'll find that someone overeats for an example because it is the only way they can feel safe or loved, and without this symptom they feel horrible and unable to be comforted. So in a sense IFS can be a method of learning about these different parts and exploring different aspects of yourself. But Coherence therapy would be the model/method by which you transform harmed parts of yourself and no longer need the problematic behaviors from the protectors. Coherence therapy is a methodology of change, but not necessarily a protracted exploration of your history or philosophical exploration of beliefs. I believe Coherence therapy is intended to be the process by which you unburden your exiled part. I believe IFS can be more useful as a way of identify parts and self exploration, whereas coherence will be the methodology of change/unburdening. I hope this makes sense. It isn't very well put together just yet as I'm a bit rusty on these things. If you are familiar with Jay Earley...https://selftherapyjourney.com/Pattern/Beginning/Who_We_Are.aspx One of the fellows he works with does a combination of IFS and Coherence therapy (along with other experiential therapies). I'm sure there are a lot of therapists who work with both and could explain their process quite well. I just need to do some digging to find them 1
Sean V Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 I'm a bit of a novice in both fields so this isn't something I can do perfectly just yet. Keeping that in mind here is how I think it would go. Coherence therapy could be more aptly called "The process to trigger a disruption and rewriting of memories". This is mentioned in the end of Ecker's presentation of how the steps in Coherence Therapy can be plugged into many therapies which are similar. IFS, EMDR, Hakomi, Focusing, EFT, ACT (affect centered). These are all known as experiential therapies. They tend to have a guiding philosophy of the emotional re-experience of feelings rather than examining the cognitive components of beliefs. They also tend to be non-counteractive, which is integral in Coherence, of believing your feelings/behaviors have an emotionally compelling reason to exist. So rather than fight your behaviors or feelings you seek to understand them. The process in Coherence therapy can be translated into all these different therapies. In IFS I believe it would be phrased as a way of negotiating between your parts. You do not fight your firefighters/protectors who are presenting problematic symptoms (overeating, depression etc.). You say "I bet you are doing this for an emotionally compelling reason, lets explore etc.". This will lead you to the harmed part the protector is trying to protect, I believe these are called exiles. This is the part which is generating the need for the problematic behavior. Often we'll find that someone overeats for an example because it is the only way they can feel safe or loved, and without this symptom they feel horrible and unable to be comforted. So in a sense IFS can be a method of learning about these different parts and exploring different aspects of yourself. But Coherence therapy would be the model/method by which you transform harmed parts of yourself and no longer need the problematic behaviors from the protectors. Coherence therapy is a methodology of change, but not necessarily a protracted exploration of your history or philosophical exploration of beliefs. I believe Coherence therapy is intended to be the process by which you unburden your exiled part. I believe IFS can be more useful as a way of identify parts and self exploration, whereas coherence will be the methodology of change/unburdening. I hope this makes sense. It isn't very well put together just yet as I'm a bit rusty on these things. If you are familiar with Jay Earley...https://selftherapyjourney.com/Pattern/Beginning/Who_We_Are.aspx One of the fellows he works with does a combination of IFS and Coherence therapy (along with other experiential therapies). I'm sure there are a lot of therapists who work with both and could explain their process quite well. I just need to do some digging to find them Eh Steve, I got Dr. Eckers book in the mail recently and have been skimming it. So I don't think that the steps of Coherence Therapy can be "plugged into" other therapies necessarily. I think Dr. Ecker's point is that other therapies (the ones he listed) have the same essential steps that make them so effective at memory reconsolidation. In the case of IFS all the steps are there. 1: The access of implicit parts that hold core beliefs about reality. 2: The transitioning of those parts (from burdened to unburdened or from protector to helper) 3: the acknowledgement and recognition of the unburdened part in its new role which now overwrites the previous, older emotional learning. Another thing you could do is show the part your working on times in your life that contradict that parts beliefs or worries, which is what coherence therapy seems to focus on. In his book he shows how other therapies activate the memory reconsolidating process in different ways. For example, in AEDP the relationship itself between the therapist and the client is the new experience of secure attachment that overwrites the old emotional learning of insecure attachment. The therapist even acknowledges the relationship itself in a meta sort of way to show the client a juxtaposition between the difference in a secure relationship vs an unhealthy one so that the new relationship can replace or overwrite the old one. Dr. Ecker also states that a therapist can be creative and use a variety of different methods and techniques in their practice as long as the essential steps of memory reconsolidation are performed, which is why some therapies may use two or more methods in their practice. hope this helps clear some things up 1
Eh Steve Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks for the reply Sean. I am both rusty on this stuff and not trained in it soooo I'm willing to be wrong and share ideas with you to hopefully help us both sharpen our knowledge of this stuff My idea has a bit more to do with Philosophy as opposed to IFS (IFS being a proxy here). The reason I say coherence therapy can be plugged into therapies is because it is very very efficiently crafted. It is a precise methodology designed for breakthroughs in changing implicit memory. The question becomes whether or not other therapies are seeking to do this and failing, in which case they should be replaced, or if they are seeking to do this in combination with some other purpose. If they are seeking additional purposes along with altering implicit beliefs/learnings/meanings which are causing problems, and have say exploratory or philosophical aims, then Coherence can be plugged into them eclectically to fit the part of the therapy which wants to change meanings and other methods can be used for other purposes. The approach may differ slightly with each methodology, the terminology may be different, parts may be involved, the juxtapositional evidence may differ, but the steps should be very similar. I view, and I believe Ecker views, Coherence therapy as a series of steps or a methodology, which can be translated into other experiential therapies or eclectic approaches. The debate to me becomes.... If you are changing implicit beliefs about your parents for example. If philosophically you believe in something like Honor thy Mother and thy Father, you're going to run into alllll kinds of issues changing the belief to a more accurate and useful meaning. Whether philosophical beliefs are held within implicit memory or not is another curious question to me and a huge can of worms. It isn't something I can answer right now and leads to some very curious questions about the therapists approach to things like forgiveness and general worldview and how it might interact with the meanings constructed in therapy. I also am curious with Coherences approach as being brief. It is quite symptom adjusting, although they wouldn't be pleased with that phrasing, in that you come in with say panic attacks. The general goal is figuring out root causes of symptoms and changing the beliefs which are causing them. One handy tool I want to consider is taking the fast acting change from Coherence therapy and making a general road map of areas to explore and change. A lot of problems in life may not come up as distressing or obvious with clients to fix. I am thinking more holistically...where a long term approach therapy covering many many topics, each quickly alterable with coherence therapy, could be very interesting indeed. It would perhaps be a bit more therapist driven than client driven in that the sessions wouldn't always explicitly be driven by problematic conscious symptoms. For example.... In general I think one issue for many people would be life achievement / greatness / bigness. This might not come up as an apparent symptom for a lot of people. And yet I think most people's potential is ridiculously high if they accept a different implicit meaning of their own potential. This could be something a therapist could consider suggesting to a client that the client may not necessarily be aware of in themselves. I hope that helps spell out my ideas a bit further. Attempting to explain it while being very rusty with IFS wasn't a great idea. Luckily I'm moving to the bay area soon, IFS is partially centered north of San Fran, Coherence therapy people are all in Oakland, so I can keep in contact with you as I meet and chat / train with these folks over the coming months 1
FrankHuranku Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 AAAAAGGHHHHHH! Just AAARRRGH that felt good. I've had a "I deserve punishment" message running my life. I've spent 7 years (I'm 32) searching for a way to fix this, & only really realized the message about 3 weeks ago. By the way, I commit the FDR sin of being a drummer, & aspiring comedian at that, definitely not a psych major. I read something called Treating adult survivors of severe childhood abuse and neglect: Further development of an integrative model John Briere, Ph.D. I took about a page of notes on what I found most relevant & after making a complete timeline of early life trauma, I've been doing something very similar to this. This is extremely validating that I'm on the right track.
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