EscapingProgress Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 I have been constantly frustrated by this claim that I must always "look on the bright side" and "be positive". Why? Should problems not be pointed out and addressed so that we may all be better off? "No" says positive Paul. That would be negative, and negativity shall not be tolerated. It is as if positivity is now a cult. You see it so often in the workplace, and I can't take seriously the notion that anyone in a 9-5 slave job is truly happy. HR reps for 9-5 companies are constantly pushing this positive attitude BS, and no dissent is allowed. My father, who did so much to make my childhood as stressful and emotionally uncomfortable as possible, also pushes this positivity line and has been since I can remember. I think that these so-called "positive Paul's" are engaged in nothing but a shallow attempt to divert attention away from underlying issues that may be and must be addressed, but to address them would be incredibly uncomfortable for the positive Paul, so positive Paul shames anyone who dare point out these problems with petty name-calling. I also get the sense that these people who always have a smile on their face and are always commenting on their personal happiness and contentment are the most miserable individuals. How miserably deluded do you have to be to walk around with a constant smile on your face in spite of the glaringly obvious societal degredation (compliments of the state) that is taking place before our eyes? Thoughts? 1
MMX2010 Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Thoughts? You don't sound like you're routinely pursuing your dreams, to the point where you know that all of your life's energy - whether time, money, or body - is adequately channeled into making those dreams come true. Without this sense of mission, all you can do is assume - probably with 97% accuracy - that the smiling people aren't really happy. But the price of that 3% failure rate is that you can't recognize the truly happy; worse, you push them away from you with your sour attitude. 1 1
MMX2010 Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Also wanted to add: One of the essential changes that happens when a man pursues his mission is that he has to pretend that it's 100% guaranteed that he'll succeed. (Missions are so hard and require such long efforts that people stop trying when they don't 100% believe they'll succeed.) So fake happiness is not always a horrible thing. 1 1
Drew. Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Uh... Yeah. Speaking of my own experiences of putting on a show for others... Yeah, I was pretty miserable on the inside. I was doing it because I simply couldn't handle the pain and suffering that I was experiencing on the inside, and I had to do all that I could to manage it. I imagine that something similar happens with other people who do this. We lie to others about how we are because we lie to ourselves about who we are so that we can keep going, at least, that was my own experience and motivation for it.
TheSchoolofAthens Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Could you be more specific in your examples? There are cetainly times to look on the bright side, and times not to. If I am hungry and can't find my favorite food to eat, I may be dissapointed but I will look on the bright side of the fact that I have found food that I do like, even though I don't love it, it is still worth being happy about. On the other side of the coin, if you are repeatedly punching me in the face while I ask you to stop, and you reply "come on, look at the bright side, we are spending time together" then it would be irrational for me to continue looking at our relationship positively. I know that's a silly example, but the point sticks, right?If you are hurting, then you deserve a relationship where you can express this hurt, don't you? Let's start there. 2
DCLugi Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Isn't it a contradiction for positive Paul to call you negative? That sounds like a negative thing to do. Couldn't you say "Don't be negative about my pointing out real problems and stop calling me names because that's also negative." Shouldn't he say, "Thanks for allowing me to hear you out." 5
Merrifield Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 I agree that the glossing over of real problems is just a cover up or facade akin to political correctness and the name calling is over the top. People that act this way are refusing to deal with a truth maybe because they don't know how to deal with it. If the "positive Pauls" don't have truth in their life then their lives are miserable, though they probably don't have a clue as to why. If you find true happiness in your personal relationships, then your personal happiness is much less effected by the condition of society, the frightened minions of positivity, or the state. 1
Devon Gibbons Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 This girl thinks the same as you! "When people say they want to be happy, what they really mean is they want to be content (and they want YOU to be content) and that's fucking dangerous." (Parenthesis mine) BAD PEOPLE around you want you to be "optimistic" about them so they WON'T HAVE TO GET BETTER. Optimism about dysfunctional people is enablement - it's SUBSIDIZING THEIR SHITTINESS with your smiles. -Stefan Molyneux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jyhrUiLXm4&t=3163 start at 52:43 3
MMX2010 Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 On the RooshVForum, a member cited a study entitled "Confidence Predicts Success More Accurately Than Merit", whose authors concluded that irrational self-confidence allows people to persist when things aren't going well. While an accurate assessment of the barriers relative to your merit prevents people from persisting. So I guess it means that the "falsely positive people" are the most productive, after all? 1
EscapingProgress Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 ...you can't recognize the truly happy; worse, you push them away from you with your sour attitude. This is a perfect example of what I was addressing in my original post. You don't sound like you're routinely pursuing your dreams, to the point where you know that all of your life's energy - whether time, money, or body - is adequately channeled into making those dreams come true. This is quite the assumption you've made about me, and it is untrue. My dream is to live abroad and renounce my US citizenship. I no longer wish to be an accomplice to the evil empire, among other things. The details of my planned exodus are uneccessary, but I'm leaving the country early next year. Much of my energy is going towards this goal. I'm at a financial point now where only an absurdly extreme event like being permanently crippled or dying would stop me. 1
MMX2010 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 This is a perfect example of what I was addressing in my original post. This is quite the assumption you've made about me, and it is untrue. My dream is to live abroad and renounce my US citizenship. I no longer wish to be an accomplice to the evil empire, among other things. The details of my planned exodus are uneccessary, but I'm leaving the country early next year. Much of my energy is going towards this goal. I'm at a financial point now where only an absurdly extreme event like being permanently crippled or dying would stop me. Do you think fake-positive people only exist in America, or will they exist in whatever-country-you're-moving-to? If they exist in that other country, what will do you when you encounter them? 1
Devon Gibbons Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 I am reading "For the New Intellectual" by Ayn Rand, in which she describes her philosophy throughout her career as an author. This section is on, "The Fountainhead". She gives a passage from the book and labels it: "The Soul of A Collectivist". Reading it struck my memory of this post. Pages 76-83. Published by Penguin in December 1963. [beginning the section]The Soul of A Collectivist This excerpt is the confession of Roark's antipode and archenemy, Ellsworth M. Toohey, an architectural critic and sociologist, who spends his life plotting the future establishment of a collectivist society. He is addressing one of his own victims....... "Kill by laughter. Laughter is an instrument of human joy. Learn to use it as a weapon of destruction. Turn it into a sneer. It's simple. Tell them to laugh at everything. Tell them that a sense of humor is an unlimited virtue. Don't let anything remain sacred in a man's soul--and his soul won't be sacred to him. Kill reverence with a giggle. He'll obey and he'll set no limits to his obedience--anything goes--nothing is too serious. He're another way. This is most important. Don't allow men to be happy. Happiness is self-contained and self-suffiecient. Happy men have no time and no use for you. Happy men are free men. So kill their joy in living. Take away from them whatever is dear or important to them." ..."Have you noticed that the imbecile always smiles? Man's first frown is the first touch of God on his forehead. The touch of thought. Only voting by smiles. Automatic levers--all saying yes... Now if you were a little more intelligent...you'd ask: What of us, the rulers? What of me, Ellsworth Monkton Toohey? And I'd say, Yes, you're right. I'll acheive no more than you will. I'll have no purpose save to keep you contented. To lie, to flatter you, to praise you, to inflate your vanity. To make speeches about the people and the common good. Peter, my poor old friend, I'm the most selfless man you've ever known. I have less independence than you, whom I just forced to sell your soul. You've used people at least for the sake of what you could get from them for yourself. I want nothing for myself. I use people for the sake of what I can do to them. It's my only function and satisfaction. I have no private purpose. I want power. I want my world of the future. Let all live for all. Let all sacrifice and none profit. Let all suffer and none enjoy. Let progress stop. Let all stagnate. There's eequality in stagnation. All subjugated to the will of all. Universal slavery--without even the dignity of a master. Slavery to slavery. A great circle--and a total equality." 2
Philosophiza Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 It is their attempt at making you ghost. It is their attempt to put you in a subjective state of mind. It's peoples ways of minimizing your concerns and issues. It's people's way of saying that don't love you and can't love you
Guest Gee Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 I don't know about all that. If one were unhappy then it behoves you to make a change. Should one not make a change then it must be that making a change that would result in more happiness is not worth the work it would take to make said change. You could restate that as one actually prefers to be unhappy then to be happy, or, one is happy with their unhappiness. In that case when presented with the negativity I can absolutely understand why someone would say look on the bright side, because what there really saying, if you'll pardon my bluntness, is stop using me a toilet for you negative shit.
Carl Green Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Ever since watching an ASAP Science YT vid that said there's a roughly 80/20 split in people for optimism/pessimism biases based on genetic predisposition, I realized there are about 20% of people in the world that 'don't care to be happy'. I don't try to fight their genes and tell them they should want to be happy. Maybe a lot of people just don't know this and assume that everyone's goal in life is to be happy. I think I would agree more with previous posts in that people are looking to be content but are projecting what makes them content onto other people. (which happens both ways) and you end up with people thinking other people are fake and what have you. ~80% are content when happy ~20% are content when certain(?) Link to ASAP Science vid: https://youtu.be/9n2tmNWn1ec Haven't finished reading this yet but it seems relative to topic. http://www.thecuriousneuron.com/2012/03/neural-basis-of-optimism.html
J. D. Stembal Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I don't like being around unhappy and unhealthy people (the two correlate), but that's a personal preference. No one is forcing you to cheer up. If you come across a person that's attempting to will you into being happy, that person possesses mythical levels of arrogance.
myclippedwings Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 I think that these so-called "positive Paul's" are engaged in nothing but a shallow attempt to divert attention away from underlying issues that may be and must be addressed, but to address them would be incredibly uncomfortable for the positive Paul, so positive Paul shames anyone who dare point out these problems with petty name-calling. Spot on, this is how I have been feeling my whole life! And the worst thing is that since this "positivity" lie has been pushed by most people around me, it makes me fear the disapproval of being true to my negative feelings. So in short, it makes it harder for me to validate my negative feelings, t fully be myself, instead I always feel like I hae to conform aroud these people and then the anxiety of not fitting in kicks in and the whole miserable cycle repeats all over again as it has done for most of my life Thankfully, I can see that I have to be true to myself no matter what!! My feelings and perceptions are true, people are faking it so hard because they are fearing the same disapproval/negative emotions themselves. But what really pisses me off is how they shame other people for it
asreon Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I also get the sense that these people who always have a smile on their face and are always commenting on their personal happiness and contentment are the most miserable individuals. How miserably deluded do you have to be to walk around with a constant smile on your face in spite of the glaringly obvious societal degredation (compliments of the state) that is taking place before our eyes? Though we don't like to admit it, humans don't think twice before they lie to another. No human on earth has gone through their life without a single lie, because hiding things is what helps us to protect others at the same time, though the result may end up costly. We've been searching for that perfect "wonderland" all this time, and seeing as you probably know the story of Alice in Wonderland, look at how screwed up the characters have become while living in that utopia. Each have their own problems, yet carry on like there's nothing wrong. We've grown used to living a life of beautiful lies, and so it's only natural that hiding what problems one may have/have noticed behind a smile seems like the best way. Or, they simply don't have "true friends" who are willing to listen to their plights and help them. Sure, we're surrounded by people we can call friends everyday, but I highly doubt all of them are close friends who are willing to listen to them properly/ they are willing to share their own problems with. It's simply in our nature to search for happiness, no matter how fake it may be. That's the way our brain wants to work, and nothing will change that.
JaydenS Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Though we don't like to admit it, humans don't think twice before they lie to another. No human on earth has gone through their life without a single lie, because hiding things is what helps us to protect others at the same time, though the result may end up costly. We've been searching for that perfect "wonderland" all this time, and seeing as you probably know the story of Alice in Wonderland, look at how screwed up the characters have become while living in that utopia. Each have their own problems, yet carry on like there's nothing wrong. We've grown used to living a life of beautiful lies, and so it's only natural that hiding what problems one may have/have noticed behind a smile seems like the best way. Or, they simply don't have "true friends" who are willing to listen to their plights and help them. Sure, we're surrounded by people we can call friends everyday, but I highly doubt all of them are close friends who are willing to listen to them properly/ they are willing to share their own problems with. It's simply in our nature to search for happiness, no matter how fake it may be. That's the way our brain wants to work, and nothing will change that. CinnamonBunny makes some good points. I've had some good friends who just lie to me, of course i don't consider them my friends. All those type of people are looking for is Attention. Those "True Friends" are always their to listen, they will take the shirt of their back for you. They're had to find and i've only ever had one of those friends but he died from heart cancer in 2010. These people rank you above everyone else and will drop anything they have to do, just so they can make sure things are alright. We search for these type of people but as he says "No matter how fake it may be", most of the time they only fake this persona.
dsayers Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Though we don't like to admit it, humans don't think twice before they lie to another. This isn't true unless you're talking about a survival scenario. Like if a gunman asks you a question, you spit out whatever doesn't get you shot. Outside of this, in order to lie, your mind has to spend time recognizing what the truth is, processing a motive to lie, and then the fabrication of the lie itself. Habitual liars are exhausted because keeping track of so many different "realities" is taxing. It's simply in our nature to search for happiness, no matter how fake it may be. You always have to be careful when you reference human "nature." Our nature is to adapt for the purpose of survival and procreation. Suppose you wanted a car. You COULD just steal one and on the surface, this seems like the easier choice. If however you do this, you risk having it taken back, risk getting hurt as part of retribution, and can never rest easy, always looking over your shoulder, wondering if each knock on the door or ring of the phone is somebody coming for justice. It's NOT the easier path. Similarly, living a lie might SEEM like the easier path to happiness. But there's no happiness to be found in people not trusting you or liking "you" for reasons that aren't you at all. We're social creatures and alienating others is gene death. There's no happiness in that. People who live this life are dysfunctional and not happy at all. Being honest, even without yourself about reality, alleviates all of these burdens just as earning a car alleviates all the burdens associated with stealing one. My favorite aspect of pursuing self-knowledge is the way life is so much simpler, which is enough to invoke happiness on its own, let alone the happiness derived from being that much more effective and self-reliant in matters of determining what is real and truth.
myclippedwings Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Similarly, living a lie might SEEM like the easier path to happiness. But there's no happiness to be found in people not trusting you or liking "you" for reasons that aren't you at all. We're social creatures and alienating others is gene death. There's no happiness in that. People who live this life are dysfunctional and not happy at all. Being honest, even without yourself about reality, alleviates all of these burdens just as earning a car alleviates all the burdens associated with stealing one. My favorite aspect of pursuing self-knowledge is the way life is so much simpler, which is enough to invoke happiness on its own, let alone the happiness derived from being that much more effective and self-reliant in matters of determining what is real and truth. I feel like I pretty much live a lie on the daily... I am struggling to be in touch with my emotions, the real me, so i present either a fake persona to people, or I just withdraw and focus completely on myself ignoring everyone else when I just give up the exhausting effort to be a people pleaser. And on the other hand, I am quite ashamed of how skinny I am, so I hide how I look like daily, while I also sweat from my anxiety. So not only am I emotionally hiding, but I am physically hiding as well ?? I feel like I have this massive core of shame that I never dare to fully face emotionally, that Ii get all these nasty physical symptoms like anxiety/sweating and low appetite instead? In other words, my body pays the price for my mind refusing to recognize the truth on a daily basis, it is complete torture :(
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