Are there actions that are neither voluntary or involuntary?

[bitcoin]

This question popped into my head after watching a couple minutes of "Sex, Lies and Rinsing" -- I never finished it. Anyways, this doesn't really have to do with those men, but I wonder if for example a therapist having sexual intercourse with a client would be considered voluntary or involuntary? 

Assuming the client is voluntary in therapy, there is still a huge power differentiation and the therapist has knowledge and tools which can be used to manipulate the client.

I can't think of many other situations like this, but still I think its an interesting question. 

I think it can be argued both ways that we physically chose to pursue that relationship and so it is therefore voluntary. But alternatively, it could be argued that our mental capacity and capability of making good decisions is being altered.

 

I know, in the scope of things, this doesn't really matter, but I am asking out of curiosity. 

 

What do you all think?

 

Thanks ! 

[Kevin Beal]

Voluntary and involuntary is a true dichotomy as "involuntary" is the negation of "voluntary" (i.e. not voluntary).

 

You could argue that our cognitive abilities are diminished (as men) in the presence of any woman we find attractive.

 

If someone paid you a million dollars not to do it, would that change your mind? Then it is voluntary, even if that decision is heavily slanted.

 

Having sex with your therapist, if both parties are consenting is voluntary. It's not really so much that it's a power disparity (I don't really think that it is), but more that romantic and sexual feelings that show up are almost without exception going to be some form of transference rather than genuine love, and thus acting out a shared delusion. You also can't be a therapist for your friends or lovers.

[DaVinci]

Voluntary and involuntary is a true dichotomy as "involuntary" is the negation of "voluntary" (i.e. not voluntary).

 

You could argue that our cognitive abilities are diminished (as men) in the presence of any woman we find attractive.

 

If someone paid you a million dollars not to do it, would that change your mind? Then it is voluntary, even if that decision is heavily slanted.

 

Having sex with your therapist, if both parties are consenting is voluntary. It's not really so much that it's a power disparity (I don't really think that it is), but more that romantic and sexual feelings that show up are almost without exception going to be some form of transference rather than genuine love, and thus acting out a shared delusion. You also can't be a therapist for your friends or lovers.

 

I've heard of many people falling for their therapist because they are telling them things they would never tell anyone. But that type of transference happens in more than just therapist client relationships. So what is the difference between the shared delusion, and actual love?

[Kevin Beal]

I've heard of many people falling for their therapist because they are telling them things they would never tell anyone. But that type of transference happens in more than just therapist client relationships. So what is the difference between the shared delusion, and actual love?

Maybe nothing at all, haha.

 

Just kidding. I think that love is definitely possible in therapy. The two might not even be mutually exclusive.

 

I probably reached a bit far with that one. It might be more accurate to say that it's definitely not in the interest of healthy therapy to also sleep with your therapist. And being that people have reported that it was absolutely terrible for them in the long run, enough that it became an offense that would lose you your license, I think it's a good enough reason to suspect. Nobody prevents you from dating your dentist.

 

I, um... *cough* maybe might have some experience with having those kinds of feelings in therapy. Don't tell anybody!

 

It was not mutual, but talking about it sure helped me work through some things. I'm very glad it happened, in the end.

 

I think that real love is our involuntary response to virtue, if we are ourselves also virtuous. I think that love is definitely possible in therapy. I am just convinced that it shouldn't be become a sexual relationship.

 

I honestly don't understand transference enough to talk about most people, and their romantic relationships. That would be interesting to hear about though.

 

What do you think?

[DaVinci]

Maybe nothing at all, haha.

 

Just kidding. I think that love is definitely possible in therapy. The two might not even be mutually exclusive.

 

I probably reached a bit far with that one. It might be more accurate to say that it's definitely not in the interest of healthy therapy to also sleep with your therapist. And being that people have reported that it was absolutely terrible for them in the long run, enough that it became an offense that would lose you your license, I think it's a good enough reason to suspect. Nobody prevents you from dating your dentist.

 

I, um... *cough* maybe might have some experience with having those kinds of feelings in therapy. Don't tell anybody!

 

It was not mutual, but talking about it sure helped me work through some things. I'm very glad it happened, in the end.

 

I think that real love is our involuntary response to virtue, if we are ourselves also virtuous. I think that love is definitely possible in therapy. I am just convinced that it shouldn't be become a sexual relationship.

 

I honestly don't understand transference enough to talk about most people, and their romantic relationships. That would be interesting to hear about though.

 

What do you think?

I think I wouldn't date my dentist. Cause it would always be "Did you just eat chocolate? Go brush your teeth!"

 

I can agree that a sexual relationship in therapy might not be a great idea. But, in regards to the topic that type of relationship does make me wonder what happens if you do have that involuntary response inside yourself and engage in a voluntary relationship. It seems like a contradiction except for that what happens inside your head isn't really "force". It's... biology?

 

I also wonder where the line is between manipulation and force. I could be approaching this in a weird way, but when I think of manipulation and force I think of neglect and abuse. Like it is kind of the same thing. But I dunno. It's just the gut feeling I get.