Is Anger Really Healthy For You?

[MysterionMuffles]

I'm starting to get confused with the concept that anger is healthy for you. It makes logical sense that it can be a defense against abusers, but at what point do you let go of your anger and start acting on different emotions to create change in the world? Or do you always have to hold on to it to keep it as a reminder of the injustices in the world?

[MMX2010]

If you use your anger to focus on self-improvement, then anger is healthy. 

 

If you use your anger to destroy people who know better than you and were trying to help you, then anger is unhealthy. 

[aviet]

My initial thought is that it is good to have people who exercise different levels in anger in different ways. This way you can gauge what levels of anger you think are best for yourself.

When I was younger I would often hide my anger, even from myself. If you want to dissipate your anger, you first need to recognise it. But keeping it in focus for the rest of your life does not seem a good idea.

Several years ago, while in my late-teens-early-twenties I was manipulated badly in business. I knew it subconsciously, but would barely confront the manipulator and suppressed my anger until it boiled out and I removed myself from the situation, losing a lot of work, which I got nothing for. If I had confronted the source of my anger earlier it would not have got so bad. Although in hind sight I left the scenario at the best possible point from various POVs. However, after leaving I was angry for a long time about the situation and all I lost/wasted. Because of that I was unable to do much for a few years. And although that in itself was a negative experience and I could have used the time better. It was necessary for my process of learning. Time would have quelled the anger I felt towards the individual who grossly manipulated me and others, but what has really dulled the anger was moving on from the whole situation and putting myself in a better one; which coincidently I would never have ended up in if it was not for 2 years of manipulation followed by 3 years productive stagnation and defeatism.

I still feel anger towards the above mentioned manipulator, even though he gave me what I needed in so many ways, the way he behaved is not acceptable. However, the anger is now very dim and I rarely think about it. It has also ended up as an asset rather than a liability. If I encountered the individual now I would speak to them and tell them about my experience at their hands in a non-pithy, non-ivory-tower way.

If you recognise your anger you are at step one. If you know the specific source of the anger, you are at step two. You could probably try moving to a Buddhist monastery and meditating your anger into the ether. I'd imagine that would work, but by doing so I think you are not really confronting the source and certainly not learning anything. In a way it's like ignoring your anger.

As eluded to in the recant of my experience, the effective and beneficial way of dealing with your anger is to confront it and surmount it. And that does not involve pushing down the person(s) who are the source of your anger. As an adult, if you end up in protracted situations where you are angry it is probably because you are operating in a way that needs to be recognised and changed.

At least I think that is a good way to view protracted situations, such as personal relationships. Small events like being mugged and social realities, like government is a different kettle of fish. I am angry about government, because it is currently an imposition on me. I doubt this will be completely surmounted, but I'm doing what I can to remove myself from it. The anger of this situation is not particularly in focus though, probably as I am confidently working towards a life of almost complete removal from the state. If you are working against the source of your anger, you have hope and aspiration and they are more powerful than the slothish pull of hopelessness and apathy.

[Anuojat]

Well if said unjusticies are carried out by abusers then i think it important to remember.

 

However anger which surrounds everytime you see or hear of abusers or anger which "haunts" your steps is not anger, but somethign else.

Like pain anger is a responce, not a tool like a shower but mroe like alarm clokc to alert you of abusers around you.

 

If anger persists or you cant help but look at abusers and get angry then theres something else going on than mere anger if one seeks to feel angry by seeking those that anger us to the point that it DISTRACTS from other feelings/emotions.

[Lens]

Anger is one of your natural and healthy emotions it is better to not to get rid of it but to love it dearly, try to understand it and express it. When you become angry it is usually a sign that you are being abused. There is also anger as a defence against a more agonizing emotion like deep sadness and anguish. In my view if you get rid of your anger you get rid of the fence that protects you from dangerous wolves. Try writing about your anger and give it a voice and see how you feel after.

 

Have you listened to this ?

 

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_363_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_1.mp3

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_364_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_2.mp3

[DaVinci]

I know in dealing with certain people in the past few years that my anger has been a response to mistreatment. It has usually been when I've been trying to be reasonable with these people and I've been met with manipulation, selfishness, and uncaring on their part. So, I think, my rage is a defense mechanism. I'm letting my frustration boil over instead of letting it fester inside me.

 

By comparison how many times do you see a $20 bill on the ground, pick it up and then scream in bloody anger to the sky $@*#! That would be weird, right? You should just be like "Hey cool I found 20 bucks!" So anger is a response to percieved mistreatment.

 

Now, anything can be taken to an extreme, including anger, but I would say in general anger probably is healthy as a mechanism for letting yourself and others know how you feel. It's very primal, but not a feeling that should be ignored.

[Kurtis]

but at what point do you let go of your anger and start acting on different emotions to create change in the world? Or do you always have to hold on to it... 

 

I would suggest to not worry too much about what you should be doing or not doing. Instead, in whatever moment you find yourself in, what do you feel?  Listen to what your body tells you.  I agree with Lens and DaVinci, if your body is feeling anger, then it is likely responding to a perceived threat.  In that case, the healthy choice is to listen to your anger, try to find it's cause and take action on that.  

[MysterionMuffles]

I would suggest to not worry too much about what you should be doing or not doing. Instead, in whatever moment you find yourself in, what do you feel?  Listen to what your body tells you.  I agree with Lens and DaVinci, if your body is feeling anger, then it is likely responding to a perceived threat.  In that case, the healthy choice is to listen to your anger, try to find it's cause and take action on that.  

Right I guess it's important to feel your genuine experience at any given moment. What I was talking about more was holding on to anger and it's long term effects. Is it really healthy to continuously hold on to anger for past abuse or can you let go of it, while at the same time committing to not replicate it for your own children in the future? 

 

That's the line of thinking I'm at. I'm done getting morally outraged at child abuse that I only let myself think about it or get angry if I witness any in public. Then I step in, not so vindictive, but empathetic towards the parent and child in a certain instance.

[Mike Larson]

Anger, like any other emotion, is your body's response to your interpretation of your environment. It serves as signal to the conscious mind and, in that regard, is always healthy. I think that the important question is whether or not your interpretation of the stimuli is accurate, and whether or not your chosen response to it is consistent with your values.

[BaylorPRSer]

Stefan said that anger is meant to be acted on, but when the same thing or sorts of things happen and you are powerless to change the scenario/environment (childhood essentially) and your efforts to act on your anger yield nothing, which was the case for me as a child almost every time, the anger turns rancid and then you're left with rage.  I'm honestly not sure what to do about rage.  Curtail time spent with the people it's directed towards and do your best to be empathetic toward it I suppose.

[Slavik]

I'm starting to get confused with the concept that anger is healthy for you. It makes logical sense that it can be a defense against abusers, but at what point do you let go of your anger and start acting on different emotions to create change in the world? Or do you always have to hold on to it to keep it as a reminder of the injustices in the world?

Hi Jamz, Im curious to know what anger you are holding?  Do you mean constantly walking angry at something?  Personally I have let go of much anger only after I have worked through many issues.  As far as anger after a certain incident.  For me, if I do not set boundaries with people right there and then by telling them how a this interaction makes me feel, then I do tend to get angry after the fact and keep holding on to it, until its resolved.  Hope this helps. 

[DaviesMa]

I would first question where the anger is directed. If we are clearly affronted then we will most likely direct it at others and this can help us to get us out of situations or warn people to change their behaviours, so acts as a protection mechanism.

 

If we see other people's needs as being more important than ours (in the sense that we see ourselves as a sacrificial animal for other to exploit) then this anger gets directed inward. As BaylorPRSer highlighted, as a child, our anger often gets surpressed by our parents as it is inconvenient to them and I think it is here that we get the idea that it is a useless or dangerous emotion and most people never past this idea.

 

This again directs anger inward, so instead of trying to control the environment, which is impossible as a child, we can try to control ourselves and our feelings, leading to our logical brain trying to bully our emotions into submission.

 

I would suggest that you ask if you trust your anger and ask who are you surpressing your anger for, if this is indeed what you are doing. Think about your childhood and imagine what your parents reactions would be if you got very angry, would it be one of curiosity, tolerance and acceptance, or would it be disapproval? This may help you to start looking at your relationship with anger a bit closer.

[Kurtis]

 Is it really healthy to continuously hold on to anger for past abuse or can you let go of it, while at the same time committing to not replicate it for your own children in the future? 

 

I have been able to let go of much or all of my anger towards my parents.  However, this only came after defoo'ing and also accepting that they may never change.  My anger was a defense against them and now that they are not in my life my need for defense is removed.  I used to have expectations that after 'x' they would see things more clearly and grow, but that never happened.  If I returned to having them in my life, as they are now, I'm sure I would find my anger return just as quickly.

 

I used to feel angry towards other people, like in your example of witnessing poor parenting.  Now I approach these situations with a lot more acceptance and empathy.  Perhaps this parent is ignorant to the truths provided by self knowledge.  However, after engaging with them and meeting hostility, denial, etc. I do not persist with attempting to change them by repeating my arguments.  Attempting to do so with people who are unwilling would, I suspect, also create the potential for me to become angry.

[Kurtis]

 

What I was talking about more was holding on to anger and it's long term effects. Is it really healthy to continuously hold on to anger for past abuse or can you let go of it, while at the same time committing to not replicate it for your own children in the future? 

 

I have recently been shown by a kind, fellow board member that I have ongoing issues with respect to my past abuse and my relationship to my anger at those who are responsible.

 

I do not think that what I said about my anger having been released is true.  It is diminished due to boundaries between my parents and myself, yes, but I think that instead of being released it is merely suppressed temporarily.  I have not fully expressed the source of my anger to my parents and I wonder if that may be required before I am really able to be free from it. I will now be discussing this with my therapist.

 

As to your original question, I know that I am still under control of patterns from my childhood.  I know I need to resolve these before I can have a healthy relationship, let alone kids.  This anger issue with my parents may very well be a key component in the process to achieve those things.

 

I apologize for thinking I could answer your question when I clearly struggle with it myself.  My previous post reads like I have it all figured out, and the truth is far from it.

[_LiveFree_]

Right I guess it's important to feel your genuine experience at any given moment. What I was talking about more was holding on to anger and it's long term effects. Is it really healthy to continuously hold on to anger for past abuse or can you let go of it, while at the same time committing to not replicate it for your own children in the future? 

 

That's the line of thinking I'm at. I'm done getting morally outraged at child abuse that I only let myself think about it or get angry if I witness any in public. Then I step in, not so vindictive, but empathetic towards the parent and child in a certain instance.

 

 

Something to consider: 

 

Anger is acute. It happens in the moment, right now. It is the 'fight' response to danger. It happens and then it's gone.

 

Chronic anger is actually rage. Rage is the combination of suppressed anger, horror, and deep sadness. You cannot "let go of" rage nor should you. The only way to rid yourself of it is to express it (in a safe way and in a safe environment). When you're able to go from [boredom-->irritation-->frustration-->anger-->rage-->deep sadness-->release-->exhaustion-->understanding] will you finally be rid of it.

 

Embedded in this process is the 5 Stages of Grief. 

 

You're original question could be restated as: How is it possible to ever be free of anger in a world so morally corrupt if you are a moral person? 

 

The answer I have found to this question is this: You will never climb a mountain by standing at the base and reaching for the top with your hands. You must place one foot in front of the other continuously and enthusiastically until you reach the summit. In other words, focus on your immediate sphere of influence and forget about the rest. 

 

Save yourself everyday and others will catch on.

 

 

"Holding onto anger" is another way of saying "rage". When anger is expressed healthily, it is expressed as it happens in the moment, and therefore, does not have the chance to turn into rage. 

 

Rage can be difficult to see because it gets masked by numbness.

[MysterionMuffles]

I have been able to let go of much or all of my anger towards my parents.  However, this only came after defoo'ing and also accepting that they may never change.  My anger was a defense against them and now that they are not in my life my need for defense is removed.  I used to have expectations that after 'x' they would see things more clearly and grow, but that never happened.  If I returned to having them in my life, as they are now, I'm sure I would find my anger return just as quickly.

 

I used to feel angry towards other people, like in your example of witnessing poor parenting.  Now I approach these situations with a lot more acceptance and empathy.  Perhaps this parent is ignorant to the truths provided by self knowledge.  However, after engaging with them and meeting hostility, denial, etc. I do not persist with attempting to change them by repeating my arguments.  Attempting to do so with people who are unwilling would, I suspect, also create the potential for me to become angry.

 

That's good to hear, Kurtis. Thanks for sharing. I still live with them, and although I have some animosity toward them, I've learned that injecting that animosity in my every last interation with them wasn't healthy for myself. I'm saving up to move out, though, and in that time I'm just taking advantage of the free luxiries I get being here, and maybe, just maybe a little while later, I will attempt to talk about my childhood rationally. Instead of the hostile hysterics it used to involve. When it comes to intervening with child abuse, a friend and I had a good conversation that concluded that we should focus on empathizing with the child more than shaming the parent. Shaming and challenging the parenting, we theorized, has more to do with our own thirst for vengeance than our desire to affect change in the world by letting children know people care.

 

I've also accepted that my parents won't change. If they were capable of such treatment, it's very unlikely that they can admit fault and apologize for it when they've spent decades convincing themselves what they did was right. I've also learned that holding out for an apology or their validation was keeping myself in childhood. I don't need their apologies or validation to move on with my life and would hate to give that much power over to them any more than I already have as an actual child.

 

 

I have recently been shown by a kind, fellow board member that I have ongoing issues with respect to my past abuse and my relationship to my anger at those who are responsible.

 

I do not think that what I said about my anger having been released is true.  It is diminished due to boundaries between my parents and myself, yes, but I think that instead of being released it is merely suppressed temporarily.  I have not fully expressed the source of my anger to my parents and I wonder if that may be required before I am really able to be free from it. I will now be discussing this with my therapist.

 

As to your original question, I know that I am still under control of patterns from my childhood.  I know I need to resolve these before I can have a healthy relationship, let alone kids.  This anger issue with my parents may very well be a key component in the process to achieve those things.

 

I apologize for thinking I could answer your question when I clearly struggle with it myself.  My previous post reads like I have it all figured out, and the truth is far from it.

 

It's not an anger "problem." It's a natural response to whatever injustice they've subjugated you to. Do not apologize for trying to answer my question, I appreciate your answer. We're all in this together, so whatever different perspectives you can all share, it's welcome.

 

So far in my experience, I just don't bring it up anymore. I do plan to eventually, but when I know I can communicate it for the sake of getting closure---not revenge. The extent of my anger has been expressed to them almost a year ago, just before I started working the two jobs I have now. I won't share the details here on what that looked like, but all I'll say is that I was approaching it from their level of guilt and humiliation, instead of openness and vulnerability. 

 

Although I am detached from getting their apologies and validation, I would still like to get closure and a conversation about my childhood and overall relationship with them before I move out so I can decide on whether or not it's worth ever seeing them again.

 

 

Something to consider: 

 

Anger is acute. It happens in the moment, right now. It is the 'fight' response to danger. It happens and then it's gone.

 

Chronic anger is actually rage. Rage is the combination of suppressed anger, horror, and deep sadness. You cannot "let go of" rage nor should you. The only way to rid yourself of it is to express it (in a safe way and in a safe environment). When you're able to go from [boredom-->irritation-->frustration-->anger-->rage-->deep sadness-->release-->exhaustion-->understanding] will you finally be rid of it.

 

Embedded in this process is the 5 Stages of Grief. 

 

You're original question could be restated as: How is it possible to ever be free of anger in a world so morally corrupt if you are a moral person? 

 

The answer I have found to this question is this: You will never climb a mountain by standing at the base and reaching for the top with your hands. You must place one foot in front of the other continuously and enthusiastically until you reach the summit. In other words, focus on your immediate sphere of influence and forget about the rest. 

 

Save yourself everyday and others will catch on.

 

 

"Holding onto anger" is another way of saying "rage". When anger is expressed healthily, it is expressed as it happens in the moment, and therefore, does not have the chance to turn into rage. 

 

Rage can be difficult to see because it gets masked by numbness.

 

Hm thanks for your perspective too, Nathan. I guess that explains why I'm so much happier these days. I got the anger out to its most extreme level, and know what my values and goals are now. I don't excuse what they've done, they know I don't put up with any BS from them. We've had a bit of a better relationship since the big fight I had with them last year, and now that I've got two jobs and exuded a huge display of power against them, they know not to mess with me anymore. Especially when it comes to bringing up my childhood. But this is not a position I truly desire where they fear me in order to respect me. When I can hone this power and transmute it to the same kind of patience and understanding I provide my friends, only then will I think I'll be able to bring up my qualms with them.

 

Til then, I'm just gonna keep saving up money for therapy, a place to live, and my own car, all in no particular order.

[PatrickC]

Riffing from Nathans post RJ.

 

Anger is absolutely 'essential' and I'm highly skeptical (indeed suspicious even) of anyone that claims to never experience it. Also as Nathan rightly points out and I'll paraphrase, rage is unprocessed and often misdirected anger.

[_LiveFree_]

RJ, I think your questions around anger will be answered when you are no longer living with your parents. 

[Matt D]

I don't think 'holding on' to anger is an accurate description of what's really going on when people describe themselves as having a lot of "pent-up" anger or rage.

 

As many have already pointed out, anger is designed to prompt us to change something about our environment. Usually the stimulant is a human (either ourselves or someone around us). Let's say someone is doing something we find annoying like whistling loudly. We can either choose to tell that person how we feel and request that they stop, or we can choose to not do anything about the feeling. For a lot of people they don't even see this initial decision as a choice because of the fog and family members in their heads.

 

So what next?

 

Option 1 - We tell the other person how we feel and request they change their behavior

Either the person will say "Thanks for telling me" and stop, or they will continue to do it anyway. If they continue their behavior or try to blame you for "making a big deal out of nothing" you can tell them that now you feel even worse. This is known here as a real-time relationships. If the person continues their behavior and you're in a situation which is voluntary you can just leave. If the situation is less voluntary, like at work for instance, you can weigh the pro and cons of talking to your boss about it, but it might prompt you to start looking for a better work environment.

 

Option 2 - You choose not to speak up about how you feel

Let's say you don't do anything about the person whistling loudly. Maybe you will get used to the noise and it won't bother you very much. But chances are you will eventually start to feel more and more annoyed, maybe coming to the point of anger. What's important here is that you're not angry because the person is whistling since you haven't informed the person it annoys you. In case, you're most likely angry at yourself BECAUSE you haven't told the person it annoys you. Therefore, taking your anger out on the other person would be unjust to the situation.

 

--

 

When you are around people who you feel comfortable being your authentic self with, you don't have to know why you're angry. You can just say, "I felt angry when you did X" Then your friend can choose to help you explore the feeling since he values your experience and will benefit from it being positive.

 

We often jump to the conclusion that anger is about other people. In the case of your parents, Jamz, you say you know that they will never change. So my guess would be the anger is around something you are doing (or not doing).

[MMX2010]

 

When you are around people who you feel comfortable being your authentic self with, you don't have to know why you're angry. You can just say, "I felt angry when you did X" Then your friend can choose to help you explore the feeling since he values your experience and will benefit from it being positive.

 

 

The anger you describe happens when people assume that others must prove themselves first, before they can open-up to others.  But the PUA in me says, "No one, and especially no attractive woman, is going to prove herself to me before I hint at (or display) certain attractive qualities."

 

I'll never stop noticing the contrast between the PUA and anti-PUA approach.  

 

PUA, "Try to meet as many people as possible.  Don't take any rejections personally.  Always assume that it's up to you to give an excellent performance, and up to her to either accept / reject your performance.  READ THE GIRL, and try not to introspect so much." 

 

ANTI-PUA, "Don't waste your time trying to meet many people, because it's obvious that most people aren't worth meeting anyway.  Don't waste your time approaching people in public, close-by, unless they're already pre-screened (preferably by being on this message board, or by agreeing with a Stef-podcast that you think is awesome).  When meeting people, ALWAYS INTROSPECT.  Ask yourself whether you're being authentic, and if the other people can't accept your authentic self, assume they're not virtuous."

 

The PUA's social-circle expands as he becomes more skillful, but I can't see how the ANTI-PUA's circle expands as he gets more skillful. 

 

 

 

 

 

We often jump to the conclusion that anger is about other people. In the case of your parents, Jamz, you say you know that they will never change. So my guess would be the anger is around something you are doing (or not doing).

 

You're dead on here.  My parents will never change, but I can wall them off entirely.  Sometimes the wall prevents me from expressing my emotions in public, but that can easily be fixed with exercise, proper sleep, and hitting on girls. 

 

That RJ still talks about his parents indicates that there's no wall between himself and them.  Or that his wall isn't nearly as strong as mine.  And if he's still in proximity to them, then he's liable to have his emotions negatively altered by their presence. 

 

So Plans #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 should all be the same, "How do I leave?" 

[Kurtis]

 

Chronic anger is actually rage. Rage is the combination of suppressed anger, horror, and deep sadness. You cannot "let go of" rage nor should you. The only way to rid yourself of it is to express it (in a safe way and in a safe environment). When you're able to go from [boredom-->irritation-->frustration-->anger-->rage-->deep sadness-->release-->exhaustion-->understanding] will you finally be rid of it.

 

Embedded in this process is the 5 Stages of Grief. 

 

....

 

Rage can be difficult to see because it gets masked by numbness.

 

 

Thank you Nathan, your post was very helpful for me.  I have tried my best to be "anger free" in my interactions with my parents as I associated anger with abuse (my step father would be angry when he attacked me). I have anger from 20 years ago that is not expressed and I can feel the numbness you mentioned.  This post gives me a lot to work with and think on, thank you!

 

 

 

Til then, I'm just gonna keep saving up money for therapy, a place to live, and my own car, all in no particular order.

 

Thank you RJ for your kind words.  It sounds like you know what you need.  I think once you are no longer in their house, in daily close proximity, that everything will be much clearer and your body even happier.

[Kurtis]

Some good things came out of discussing this topic of anger in therapy today.  I found them helpful, hopefully others may also:

 

A distinct difference between rage and anger...  Anger is directed or focused, and one retains the sense of self and of others. Anger can be very useful (as mentioned above).  Whereas rage is unfocused, pervasive, and can be very destructive.  I don't see how rage can be helpful.

 

After the threat is removed, you do not want to retain those high levels of anger as this is a big energy drain (not to mention an unpleasant way to be long term).  However, it is healthy to retain some of that anger as it will be there, ready to spring into defensive action should the threat ever attempt to return.  

 

To be processed, anger does not need to be expressed at the people who were the threat to your health. There are various techniques to do this.  For example, if the anger makes you feel like using physical force to remove the threat from your "space", you can have a friend press their palms against yours.  Starting at your shoulders (arms bent) you then press them away from you, ending with your arms out straight.  The friend should apply enough resistance to make this hard work to do (but not too much so that you can't remove the "threat").  Another method can be to free write all your anger out onto paper and then either hold on to that paper, or have some kind of ritual to let it go (burn in a fire, send out on a river/ocean etc).  

 

I also enjoyed thanking my body for the anger.  Being grateful for all the ways in which my body works to keep me safe and happy  

[Matt D]

Was there a question or criticism here or were you just continuing off my thoughts?

 

 

The anger you describe happens when people assume that others must prove themselves first, before they can open-up to others.  But the PUA in me says, "No one, and especially no attractive woman, is going to prove herself to me before I hint at (or display) certain attractive qualities."

 

I'll never stop noticing the contrast between the PUA and anti-PUA approach.  

 

PUA, "Try to meet as many people as possible.  Don't take any rejections personally.  Always assume that it's up to you to give an excellent performance, and up to her to either accept / reject your performance.  READ THE GIRL, and try not to introspect so much." 

 

ANTI-PUA, "Don't waste your time trying to meet many people, because it's obvious that most people aren't worth meeting anyway.  Don't waste your time approaching people in public, close-by, unless they're already pre-screened (preferably by being on this message board, or by agreeing with a Stef-podcast that you think is awesome).  When meeting people, ALWAYS INTROSPECT.  Ask yourself whether you're being authentic, and if the other people can't accept your authentic self, assume they're not virtuous."

 

The PUA's social-circle expands as he becomes more skillful, but I can't see how the ANTI-PUA's circle expands as he gets more skillful. 

[_LiveFree_]

Great work, Kurtis!!

[MMX2010]

Was there a question or criticism here or were you just continuing off my thoughts?

 

Just continuing off of your thoughts.  The most important part of my post was the Expanding Social Circle versus Contracting Social Circle. 

[Kevin Beal]

Another thing that I think is worth considering is that personalities are highly contagious and they work their way in through agreement and sympathy.

 

The personalities that take up residence in our psyches should ideally be working toward the same goals. They get internalized, integrated. A mecosystem that has parts who are invested in your failure can produce negative self esteem; thinking like "who are you to do X?", "people want to achieve that are dumbies". It's that sort of quietly operating in the background inner critic who is more than happy to help you sabotage yourself.

 

If I think that it was okay for my mother to angrily get up in my face for telling her that I had a bad day at school when I was 7 "you're a kid, your feelings don't matter!"; that's going to produce rationalizations. Rationalizations which at best say it's okay for people to treat me that way, and worse that I deserved it. Nobody deserves that, and any person who is for themselves and their own rational interests would never allow it. Logically, they must have a low regard for themselves. That's one consequence of agreement and sympathy.

 

One way anger really helps in cases like these is that it help denormalize that behavior, make it not okay. Anger is an externalizing force. If you aren't at any risk for agreement or sympathy with anti-self thinking, then anger may not be necessary. If you don't feel anger, then maybe that's totally okay. Maybe it's sufficiently denormalized at this point.

 

I think it's tricky business, though. These internalized parts are often very quiet, whispering propaganda into your ear. Often people are not even aware that they are depressed until well after they've experienced the symptoms. I remember you said you read the Six Pillars of Self Esteem, so, you know the answer is increased awareness and acceptance of what is real and true. Be mindful of what you tell yourself and you'll be able to notice those parts, if what they are saying is valid, and maybe whether or not anger is going to be helpful.

[David Ottinger]

To answer the question in the title:

 

I forget where I discovered it, but I've come to understand 'anger' as being the emotional response to expectations not being met.   So, is it possible that an individual can find oneself having an emotional response to an unhealthy, or better said, unrealistic expectation?   

I find the answer to that question is: YES!

So, generally speaking, it's very possible for the anger to be unhealthy.  If, for example, I was angry that god didn't answer my prayers, that would be an unhealthy response.  I would be stressing out over superstitious ideals.  I suppose such a reaction would be called 'madness' or 'hysteria'.

[iBlagg]

Is anger really healthy for you? To that question I'd say no, of course not. 

 

Not expressing anger can lead to mental health problems. The same as suppressing or faking emotions. 

 

But I think we can avoid anger and that would be better. Buddhist teachings offer a practical guide to nirvana and part of that is dealing with people who mistreat you. Buddhist Monks are human after all if someone acts like a jerk to them they'll feel it. Instead of getting angry or sad. They've trained themselves to feel sympathy for the abuser. If this person goes around being a dick all the time how much happiness do they miss-out on? How many relationships have they destroyed? Are they alone due to them being this way?

 

Instead of getting angry they just feel sorry for that person. And if you can offer help. 

 

I've done the above a couple times to calm myself down and it really works. I'm by no means good at it. It doesn't solve the problem of someone mistreating you repeatedly. But without anger we can think more clearly and in that way you might come up with a solution that works. 

 

Anger is proven to reduce creative thinking and reaction times. There has been a couple times in my life where I failed to see the creative solution due to anger in the moment only for it to become clear after I calmed down. When it was too late.

 

I don't think we need anger to help us stop someone abusing us. Not in the same way we feel pain when we put our hand in a fire.

 

We can still be motivated to stop someone abusing us, not by a negative emotion of anger. But of sympathy and wanting to help them or others who might be abused.

[_LiveFree_]

Is anger really healthy for you? To that question I'd say no, of course not. 

 

Not expressing anger can lead to mental health problems. The same as suppressing or faking emotions. 

 

But I think we can avoid anger and that would be better. Buddhist teachings offer a practical guide to nirvana and part of that is dealing with people who mistreat you. Buddhist Monks are human after all if someone acts like a jerk to them they'll feel it. Instead of getting angry or sad. They've trained themselves to feel sympathy for the abuser. If this person goes around being a dick all the time how much happiness do they miss-out on? How many relationships have they destroyed? Are they alone due to them being this way?

 

Instead of getting angry they just feel sorry for that person. And if you can offer help. 

 

I've done the above a couple times to calm myself down and it really works. I'm by no means good at it. It doesn't solve the problem of someone mistreating you repeatedly. But without anger we can think more clearly and in that way you might come up with a solution that works. 

 

Anger is proven to reduce creative thinking and reaction times. There has been a couple times in my life where I failed to see the creative solution due to anger in the moment only for it to become clear after I calmed down. When it was too late.

 

I don't think we need anger to help us stop someone abusing us. Not in the same way we feel pain when we put our hand in a fire.

 

We can still be motivated to stop someone abusing us, not by a negative emotion of anger. But of sympathy and wanting to help them or others who might be abused.

 

 

Do you see a difference between feeling an emotion and behavior?

[Lens]

Is anger really healthy for you? To that question I'd say no, of course not. 

 

Not expressing anger can lead to mental health problems. The same as suppressing or faking emotions. 

 

But I think we can avoid anger and that would be better. Buddhist teachings offer a practical guide to nirvana and part of that is dealing with people who mistreat you. Buddhist Monks are human after all if someone acts like a jerk to them they'll feel it. Instead of getting angry or sad. They've trained themselves to feel sympathy for the abuser. If this person goes around being a dick all the time how much happiness do they miss-out on? How many relationships have they destroyed? Are they alone due to them being this way?

 

Instead of getting angry they just feel sorry for that person. And if you can offer help. 

 

I've done the above a couple times to calm myself down and it really works. I'm by no means good at it. It doesn't solve the problem of someone mistreating you repeatedly. But without anger we can think more clearly and in that way you might come up with a solution that works. 

 

Anger is proven to reduce creative thinking and reaction times. There has been a couple times in my life where I failed to see the creative solution due to anger in the moment only for it to become clear after I calmed down. When it was too late.

 

I don't think we need anger to help us stop someone abusing us. Not in the same way we feel pain when we put our hand in a fire.

 

We can still be motivated to stop someone abusing us, not by a negative emotion of anger. But of sympathy and wanting to help them or others who might be abused.

 

If you get slapped by a psycho on the street you may apply buddhist teachings, stay zen and give the other cheek. Or you can get angry (natural animal and human response) and save your dignity and defend yourself. But if in your childhood you were brutally punished for talking back to your parents you may think in your brain that life is that way or you can choose to abandon this dangerous propaganda of zen and know that natural response to abuse is anger, rage and disgust and all these are natural human feelings (please read and try to answer Nathan Diehl question). Do you remember the way you punished for talking back ? If you do remember this violence inflicted on you as a child, this important step can open you up to discover how you were taught to get rid of anger so you became a "quiet child" and then an advocate of Zen in adulthood. Punishing children for expressing their feelings is a crime because it is literally killing their internal rich life! 

 

The joy of anger part 1 by Stefan Molyneux

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_363_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_1.mp3

 

The joy of anger part 2

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_364_The_Joy_Of_Anger_Part_2.mp3

[BaylorPRSer]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I saw a movie called 'Unbroken' last winter I think. The main character is a real life WW2 vet who spent time in several POW camps. At the last camp, one of the prisoners says something along the lines of 'nobody is going to rescue you, so it's best to accept your fate'. I used to think that rage was some sort of hangover from anger that was only relevant in the past, but now i think it's a constant reminder that there are aspects of your life that are unacceptable AND changeable. Therefore, this rage part of you wants what's best for you. We have way more freedoms than POVs do. The relationship to your rage will evolve with a combination of action steps and introspection. Make sure to listen to the rage for some possible action steps that will satisfy it. In a way you're doing this already by saving to move out. Does that land at all? What comes up for you when you think about your decision to move out?

The 6 months before I moved out I had a lot of thoughts along these lines:

"Fuck this, I'm 24 years old, if I die at 80 my life is over a quarter finished and I'm not even a full fledged adult. This is fucking unacceptable. I won't stand for this." I'm not saying you should be thinking like this, or that what I was thinking was rational, but I'm curious if any of that is there. If it is, then it's driving you.

There's many areas where I think absolutely staggering levels of rage can compel one to action. This example doesn't apply to you because you like your jobs, but at the job I just left, part of the reason I left was because it sucked. I walked in one morning and my favorite co-worker said, "the a/c is out in case you weren't already demoralized enough." I think it's pretty clear I wasn't the only one who hated it, but if it's a shitty place to work, why are there people who have been there for 5 years? 6 years? Obviously, nobody here has been to my office, but it was an unhealthy environment, and the pay sucked. People have a variety of reasons and factors for why they stay at a job they hate. Having kids and a wife for example makes job mobility decrease for example. However, part of me is convinced that my rage is what separates me from those that started at this company before me and haven't left. I don't think they're pissed off enough to make radical changes in their lives. I could be wrong. Using anger as fuel is an art and it's best to address it in the moment; however, the deep seeded rage that you "just can't let go of" is very relevant and there will be no sustainable healing without the action steps to accompany your introspection. Basically, discuss your anger with a therapist, journal about it, communicate with it, and take action steps that specifically correspond with what it wants for you is my view. Thanks for bringing this up RJ.

[Kurtis]

Do you remember the way you punished for talking back ? If you do remember this violence inflicted on you as a child, this important step can open you up to discover how you were taught to get rid of anger so you became a "quiet child" and then an advocate of Zen in adulthood. Punishing children for expressing their feelings is a crime because it is literally killing their internal rich life!

 

Kudos to you Lens... your effort in finding specific podcast links that relate to your posts is always very appreciated (by me at least).

 

Your mention of the "quiet child" reminds me of how I used to identify with being "shy", especially in childhood. This is all too common in many people. The abused child who doesn't have a voice in the family continues into an adult who doesn't have a voice in life. This becomes so internalized we think it's just the way we are, or even worse, that it's a virtue.

 

Anger is a very useful tool to find one's voice, providing the energy required to finally express oneself to the people who took that ability away.

[Lens]

Kudos to you Lens... your effort in finding specific podcast links that relate to your posts is always very appreciated (by me at least).

 

Your mention of the "quiet child" reminds me of how I used to identify with being "shy", especially in childhood. This is all too common in many people. The abused child who doesn't have a voice in the family continues into an adult who doesn't have a voice in life. This becomes so internalized we think it's just the way we are, or even worse, that it's a virtue.

 

Anger is a very useful tool to find one's voice, providing the energy required to finally express oneself to the people who took that ability away.

 

 

Thank you for your feedback and I am happy you like my choices !