neeeel Posted May 23, 2015 Posted May 23, 2015 I have a lot of problems making decisions, even for the most simple seeming tasks I will give an example. Christmas cards. I get very worked up about them. Should I give them, or not? Firstly,I dont like that it seems pretty much obligatory to give them. Its like saying hello when you meet someone, you pretty much have to do it, otherwise you are seen as socially inept or even bad. Perhaps it says more about me, than about the rules, but I hate having to comply to all these little social rules. Perhaps they do make the world a better place, and social interaction easier, but there is something in me that rebels at "having" to do anything. Second, lets say at work, you are expected to give christmas cards to all your colleagues, and you expect you will receive one from most or all of them. I dont really care for any of my colleagues, I have no real interest in them or their lives, and I really do not feel like, or care about, giving them a christmas card. So for days before christmas, I go back and forth over whether to give cards or not. I dont want to, but maybe I should because of what people will think, but I think its stupid, why should I do it, but they will be giving me a card and will expect one back, but I dont feel like giving them, but I dont want to upset them or make them feel bad, and so on and so on. I will buy cards, write them out for people, and be going round and round as to whether I am going to give them or not, right up to travelling to work on the day I am giving the cards. In the end, I usually end up giving them, and feeling crap about it. Family is even worse, its almost impossible to contemplate not giving them a card. I think my fears about not giving cards, is about my honesty, and how it will be interpreted. If I go on my feelings of resistance to having to do something, and distaste for giving cards to people I dont care about ( which I assume are my "real" genuine feelings about the situation), and decide to not give cards, I worry that I will be attacked, or looked down upon. By not giving a card, I am basically sending the message, "I dont care about you, or social rules and traditions" which is a difficult message to be sending out. If I do give cards, I feel like I am being dishonest and weak and cowardly. so I end up in a bind, in which, whichever decision I make, I feel bad. Either scared, paranoid, socially awkward ( if I dont give cards) or dishonest, weak, cowardly, like a slave , obeying tradition, and lying to people about my feelings for them and just going along with things in order to manipulate people ( if I do give cards) I also dont really know which decision is "me". Are they both me, neither me? Which one is the "true" decision, is there such a thing? This also adds to the confusion and general turmoil around the decision. "I want to, but I dont want to, but I want to, but I dont want to, but I want to, but I dont want to" does anyone understand what I am talking about? Maybe its just a problem with me, I read too much into things, am too sensitive to social cues, and no-one would care if they got a card from me or not. Maybe giving or not giving a card means none of these things, and I am just doing too much "religious" thinking, as stef puts it. And it seems to be the same with any decision I have to make. Either action makes me feel bad, so I end up waiting till the very last possible minute before deciding.
Lens Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 What you describe is a lot of fear of rejection and toxic shame. I think you are afraid of being rejected if you do not do what you think you are expected to do. I think your fear to be rejection is very valid and also think that the rejection already happened maybe in your childhood or at school but it has not been worked out in therapy yet. Rejection produces a lot of shame and can really be a handicap to feel worth it and to feel that you have the right to exist and have your own preferences. The problem is not with you it is with the people who shamed and rejected you. I think you are still complying with an old rule and you internalized a false image of yourself though in therapy you should be able to feel a lot of anger to assert your right to be who you are without feeling embarrassed or guilty. There is a great book on this topic of John Bradshaw: Healing the shame that binds you. There is a podcast I think is useful http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_720_The_Hell_Of_Attempted_Connection.mp3
neeeel Posted May 25, 2015 Author Posted May 25, 2015 Thanks for the podcast. It is very very relevant to my situation, and things I am discussing in therapy. Ie, my parents were good, and I was the irritating, argumentative, disobedient, bad one. Stef says towards the end of the podcast "Either my parents were good, in which case they wouldnt reject the child. Or, my parents were bad, in which case they would reject me. There is no way that this doesnt all come together logically." There is one way in which good parents may reject a child. If the child was inherently, unalterably, bad. I dont believe in inherent unalterable badness, and yet, strangely, this reasoning still pops up when I ponder the question of my childhood. I will look into the john bradshaw book
babauzhis Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 Duuuude, I have exactly the same problem. I was about to make a post titled "decision making perfectionism". This happens with every decision with no clear best option. I think it's worse for me though. I find it very hard to do anything else except think about my choices when I have a dilemma like that on my mind. It makes me very unproductive and unable to relax without drugs. Please share with me anything useful that you'll find, thanks.
Lens Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Thanks for the podcast. It is very very relevant to my situation, and things I am discussing in therapy. Ie, my parents were good, and I was the irritating, argumentative, disobedient, bad one. Stef says towards the end of the podcast "Either my parents were good, in which case they wouldnt reject the child. Or, my parents were bad, in which case they would reject me. There is no way that this doesnt all come together logically." There is one way in which good parents may reject a child. If the child was inherently, unalterably, bad. I dont believe in inherent unalterable badness, and yet, strangely, this reasoning still pops up when I ponder the question of my childhood. I will look into the john bradshaw book Much of the anxiety and difficulty we face now as adults to make decisions, have personal preferences or building boundaries comes from the early rejection you mention in the podcast. It's good you're in therapy btw and I can tell you that childhood is a goldmine and the fact that you still feel that you were a bad child show you how you were viewed by your parents and you internalized it, you had no choice, your therapy will help you to recover your self esteem and change the way you view yourself. Just imagine that you can live free and have the right to make decisions for your future and no longer reject yourself because other rejected you. You can achieve that by exploring your past and talk about it in your therapy. Stefan's Podcasts are extremely helpful. Go to this address http://www.fdrpodcasts.com and type any keyword, for example "rejection" or "fear of rejection" and you'll have results of all the podcasts where the subject of rejection is discussed. Best of luck! 1
Tony Crowe Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Are you fellas familiar with double-binds as well?
neeeel Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 Are you fellas familiar with double-binds as well? Not sure what you mean with respect to my OP, do you have an example?
Tony Crowe Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 Is each decision or no decision at all not satisfying for you? Do you feel like you will be dishonest and lose integrity if you act and fail to manage others perception of you if you don't? The double-bind is a fundamental concept in psychology which deals with conflicting messages. I brought that up in case it gives you an avenue for exploration and breaking out of paralysis in decision making. If you like you can see if it applies to what you're experiencing with another description here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAcZ7lfWfqE He talks about it as a symptom of suffering narcissistic abuse. The saying "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." comes to mind.
neeeel Posted June 21, 2015 Author Posted June 21, 2015 yes, that does seem to fit, that whatever I do, I feel like crap. In the example with the christmas cards, I lose integrity and honesty if I give them ( because I dont really want to give them), and I will project an unsocial and unfriendly image if I dont give them. I will take a look at your video, thanks.
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