Things I've discovered through my stubborn refusal to get a legit job.

[Sashajade]

 I had decided a long time ago that I really struggled with most entry level work environments. 

I would get bored, annoyed, distracted and just in general I would be so unhappy and could not wait

till I was done with my shift. I know that to a degree this has to do with issues with authority and just

the frustration with unreasonable demands and most likely a job environment that is not a good fit for me.

The other thing that sucked is feeling like I couldn't maximize the use of my time and energy in order 

to feel like I could justify being there. So I do earn less money but I'm not sure I could go back to an

authoritan work environment. I discovered that there are very generous compassionate people who are willing to barter and that I can somewhat be less dependent on money for everything. It is challenging though 

because some people really don't like that I don't work a legit job. It's like that conformist thing that people

try to push on us like there is only one way to live. There is definitley downsides to not having something you can put on paper but I guess you have to do what works for you when it's all said and done.

 

[NotDarkYet]

My two cents:

 

Entry level work sucks, the managers suck, the work sucks.

 

BUT, if you can get over that entry level hump (have a skill that set you apart from regular grads, even if that skill is willingness to do anything and everything for the company), the pastures get much greener quick.

 

I work for a job search website (no, this isn't going where you think it's going), and I can tell you it feels fine, or even good, to be at work.

 

There is no set time to come to work (or leave).  They give us free lunch.  Very little micromanagement.

 

In exchange, I take on any project, and try to kick ass every minute I'm there.  The time passes SO quickly.  I never find myself waiting for the clock.

 

You just have to get in a company that that can afford to treat it's people like autonomous individuals.  Those companies exist.  Usually tech companies
 

You should see the way my  company pampers our software developers....they will do ANYTHING to keep them happy.  Free beer all day at work.  Meditation rooms.  Gyms, etc.  

 

If you can offer a special skill, people will clamor to get and keep you.

 

Again, it's a hump to get over that entry level crap.  But it gets better.  Much better.

[DaVinci]

I could probably talk for two hours straight about my last job. I'm also like you. I refuse to go back unless I have to. My problem with most jobs isn't the work as much as it is being treated as less than human.

 

@NotDarkYet I have to say getting over that hump is not as easy as you make it sound. At least not for me.

 

Sometimes I think we should all team up and live close together. Find a dentist, a doctor a garbage guy, etc and all move into the same neighborhood.

[JBitD]

I've experienced the same thing at low paying jobs which anybody can do, my boss would always talk at a 90° angle to me, she wouldn't even face me and was quite condescending. When I get interviews at machine shops for entry level CNC work the managers actually treat me like they want me there, they are very proud and happy with their work and bring me around the shop like a 10 year old kid showing off their toys, and managers treat employees like people with experience and skills you don't want to offend and lose. Of course even with my education everyone wants "strong verifiable work history" so you can't just get years of specific education and get into a good job, the manufacturers are making the terrible service sector jobs engineers and machinists aren't suitable for mandatory.

 

@Davinci There are self driving cars, there are garbage truck with an arm that lifts up the garbage, put it together and you have automated garbage collection. Watson is assimilating all medical knowledge and combined with tech like Siri to hear your symptoms, Stethee to upload a sound recording of your heart and MOCA heart which measures other blood flow information, just wait for a phone attachment which can perform every blood test a hospital can with a single drop and what do you need general practice doctors for anymore? Watson will tell you what is wrong more accurately than any doctor, and the cost will be insignificant. And if you needed to go to a hospital instead of nurses you'd see robots made by Aethon Inc, they have 25 at UCSF Medical center making deliveries now, but add a robotic surgeon and robots that can lift and wash people and hospitals will also cost barely anything to stay in. 

 

What I'm trying to say is there will come a time when nobody 'has' to do anything for all our necessities to be met, and we won't have to move together, it will be everywhere. Whether an income for everyone another way than a job can be sorted out by then (in an ethical way) we'll see.

[Thomasio]

I've been employed for quite some years and I made it way past entry level, but I've never been satisfied with my job, nor the money they paid me for it.

Then I discovered the simple fact, what the employer pays is the value of your labor minus his own profit, or in other words, you will always be paid less than you're worth.

The obvious solution is to become self employed and offer your skills without someone in between taking (or should I say stealing?) part of your value.

The hard part is finding customers, but with a little bit of effort that's doable, after all you can easily outcompete your former employers price while still keeping more for yourself.

Of course there are jobs where that's not possible, or at least not so easy, i.e. if your job requires heavy machinery or is a mass production requiring a large structure of distributors, but if you have such a job, you might simply have the wrong job.

[DaVinci]

I've experienced the same thing at low paying jobs which anybody can do, my boss would always talk at a 90° angle to me, she wouldn't even face me and was quite condescending. When I get interviews at machine shops for entry level CNC work the managers actually treat me like they want me there, they are very proud and happy with their work and bring me around the shop like a 10 year old kid showing off their toys, and managers treat employees like people with experience and skills you don't want to offend and lose. Of course even with my education everyone wants "strong verifiable work history" so you can't just get years of specific education and get into a good job, the manufacturers are making the terrible service sector jobs engineers and machinists aren't suitable for mandatory.

 

@Davinci There are self driving cars, there are garbage truck with an arm that lifts up the garbage, put it together and you have automated garbage collection. Watson is assimilating all medical knowledge and combined with tech like Siri to hear your symptoms, Stethee to upload a sound recording of your heart and MOCA heart which measures other blood flow information, just wait for a phone attachment which can perform every blood test a hospital can with a single drop and what do you need general practice doctors for anymore? Watson will tell you what is wrong more accurately than any doctor, and the cost will be insignificant. And if you needed to go to a hospital instead of nurses you'd see robots made by Aethon Inc, they have 25 at UCSF Medical center making deliveries now, but add a robotic surgeon and robots that can lift and wash people and hospitals will also cost barely anything to stay in. 

 

What I'm trying to say is there will come a time when nobody 'has' to do anything for all our necessities to be met, and we won't have to move together, it will be everywhere. Whether an income for everyone another way than a job can be sorted out by then (in an ethical way) we'll see.

Sounds awesome, but it also sounds like it is quite a ways out. But, hey, hopefully someone will speed that process up.

[LibertarianSocialist]

You may wish to ask yourself whether such an issue would also exist under a propertarian (ancap) system, through the examination of the motive forces for such a situation.

 

Capitalism of all kinds is marked by two significant features, private ownership of wealth (land, capital, etc.) and usage of wealth to generate (take from others, consensually or no) more wealth (rent, profit, taxation, extortion etc.).

 

Capitalist accumulation inevitably results in a degree of wealth concentration (just or no), and its need for the accumulation of capital necessitates the formation of hierarchical organisation (consensual or no) in the pursuit of this. This is often achieved through the extraction of surplus labour from the producers in society by the owners of capital.

 

Such theft of the fruits of labour is undesirable to all men and so must be achieved through coercion. Such coercion may be achieved through a variety of means. The most insidious (and so most desirable and prevalent) means is through the artificial creation of scarcity via private property. Imagine a wealthy landlord, to work a small portion of his land which would otherwise go unused is considered a violation of his rights. Why? Has he been deprived by your usage? No. He has only been deprived of the ability to make a profit off YOUR labour.

 

The only means by which a society can free itself of authoritarian power structures is to remove those means of coercion and inequality. Only through such a society which frees itself of the ability of men to profit at their brothers expense, and which rejects all means of coercion of that most sacred of things, the individual, can we have a truly free society. Only through the abolishment of unequal power & wealth may society see the ending of heirarchy. In this only the free association of sovereign owner-producers will suffice.

 

I would like to recommend you simply knuckle down and climb the ladder, but is this desirable or even feasible? Surely no society should be run by the philosophy of masters and slaves, that it is just to be dominated and dominate in turn, what would Molneux say of this in the home? Why then accept it as a bedrock of a social system?

Furthermore the odds are stacked against you, a glance at social mobility affirms this. One of the crowning successes of capitalism is that it fosters the belief that hard work will ensure success. Where is this supposed meritocracy, where capital itself lays golden eggs? Unless the ownership of capital is a personal merit in itself.

[Frosty]

Not all work places are created equal, neither are all bosses and managers. Our CEO is a ball buster but our general managers are actually very good and treat people with a lot of respect. Working for smaller businesses helps a lot because they tend to be very friendly and more respectful, for them having a small turnover of staff and more dedicated workers who are willing to span several job roles really helps the business run more smoothly and efficiently.

 

Generally speaking the more value you have the more negotiating power you have with a business, there's absolutely nothing to stop you from asking them to modify your contract to suit your needs better, my brother for example is a developer who works in our office and he didn't need the additional cash from a full work week and instead likes his spare time more, so he knocked his working week down to 4 days and shaved 1/5th off his pay. The main problem is that in the work place part of your value is your experience so people going in on the bottom rung of the career ladder have less assets to negotiate with, you need to put in some effort first to earn that position to negotiate. 

 

You say that a job environment is not like a good fit for you but that's an awful generalization, there are many different job environments which people respond to differently, I'd not be able deal with customers easily because I have too little patience with people, however I can sit behind a computer for 8 hours a day programming or doing admin work. After 10 years of work I'm now head of IT and get to set my departments work environment within a certain degree and I try and make it as nice as possible. Our office has beanbags a large 52" TV and a play station for people to play on during break/lunch, it's a super chill place to work, managers treat us to breakfast every friday, we occasionally do bowling, there's always cake and snacks when its someones birthday, we do pub crawls, we'll get off early if sales do well that kinda thing.

 

Anyway work sucks, almost everyone would not work if they could, not that people necessarily hate their jobs, but you're not there to have fun you're there to generate value and make money. My advice to anyone struggling with entry level stuff is that adding value to yourself you go up the ladder and have more room to negotiate better conditions, sometimes putting up with the first few rungs is a good investment for better conditions later on.

[john cena]

A fact that needs to be considered, if the minimum wage were to carry the same value today as it did when it was instituted, it would be over $25/hr. This is based on gold/silver to currency inflation rates, however I would argue that the market is SEVERELY undervalued due to chinas gold buy outs in addition to paper "gold" certificated that don't actually exist bringing the supply way to to a fake level. Really, the "disadvantaged workers getting paid $1/hr" back in the 1920's were earning $20-100/hr working factory jobs.. compared to $7.25 now. But WAIT!!! Now we need so much more! Think how much more complex and expensive your house, car, cell phone, etc is than it was then. People has maybe 50 times more money to spend back in the day than we do now. It's all a numbers game they play with your head, just like inflating the debt away.. 

 

Ask yourself, if you were getting paid $100/hr for your entry level job, would you feel the same? Even if you did feel the same, you would quickly be able to invest this capitol and gain ranks to a better job. This is exactly what tyrants DONT want. They wait their genetics to stay at the top of the food chain for as long as possible, acting in psychotic ways to put entire populations down. 

 

I completely agree with OP. I cannot stand to waste my life working for entry level pay. I would have a better life living in a log cabin i build myself in the woods than working every single day all day to live in a tiny apartment in a polluted city with terrible people. I completely sympathize with people who take welfare simply because getting job experience is so grueling for the unskilled.