How to find a girlfriend

[Andrew31]

I don't know man, it sounds like you want to "tune me". I'm more into more fundamental stuff.

[Renaissance Man]

All you need to know is: like will attract like. If you're interested in a wise woman than exhibit traits of a wise man, she will value those qualities.

[Andrew31]

Offcourse Will, I was thinking of going to therapy, becoming as healthy as I can get and then aim for healthy. When I have more money, I think I'll get a car and probably go to dancing classes or Spanish lessons. 

[Renaissance Man]

Offcourse Will, I was thinking of going to therapy, becoming as healthy as I can get and then aim for healthy. When I have more money, I think I'll get a car and probably go to dancing classes or Spanish lessons. 

That's a great plan!

[Andrew31]

I thought you may be kinda interested in an update. I went to a bunch of dance classes(sum of 5 different groups salsa and swing). Generally they were 50:50 ratio. In a certain club the women were almost all(~30) young and hot. I'd go out with any of them, except a few old ones and one fat. It's quite a contrast how they dance with you, touch you, smile at you and when the class is over they turn to the dressing and it's like they avoid contact with the guys. I asked girls out. I wasn't a creep, but wasn't a player also. Just honesty, straight forwardness and patience. Mostly rejection, girls playing games and felt at times quite down in the bus on my way home. I was specially disgusted by one "social dynamics fox", with witch I talked a few times in the bus. I had one going for coffee with a bit older and meaty woman. At the time I didn't take her seriously, but that "date" is now giving me hope that working woman of some virtue sometimes would consider it luck to find a man with a car, apartment and a decent income who wont cheat easily. 

For now I won't look for virtue within society's beauty standards. I'm going back to dating sites, I'll look for a woman who'd be my equal in usefulness and with whom I kinda enjoy spending time. 

[Jot]

I thought you may be kinda interested in an update. I went to a bunch of dance classes(sum of 5 different groups salsa and swing). Generally they were 50:50 ratio. In a certain club the women were almost all(~30) young and hot. I'd go out with any of them, except a few old ones and one fat. It's quite a contrast how they dance with you, touch you, smile at you and when the class is over they turn to the dressing and it's like they avoid contact with the guys. I asked girls out. I wasn't a creep, but wasn't a player also. Just honesty, straight forwardness and patience. Mostly rejection, girls playing games and felt at times quite down in the bus on my way home. I was specially disgusted by one "social dynamics fox", with witch I talked a few times in the bus. I had one going for coffee with a bit older and meaty woman. At the time I didn't take her seriously, but that "date" is now giving me hope that working woman of some virtue sometimes would consider it luck to find a man with a car, apartment and a decent income who wont cheat easily. 

For now I won't look for virtue within society's beauty standards. I'm going back to dating sites, I'll look for a woman who'd be my equal in usefulness and with whom I kinda enjoy spending time. 

 

 

You can continue trying with dating sites but how about skimming through facebook/Instagram/twitter/Tumblr/etc and other social media profiles? I'd rather try it this way instead of dating sites/apps for numerous reasons, some that come to mind right now:

you get to value-scan the girls much faster since you can basically run through hundreds of profiles in no time, social media offers you much more insight into someone's personality than any dating profile does since you can look through their pictures, followed pages, liked comments and so on...and where do you put the fact that you get to see their red flags from miles away...

 

 

However, the thing that I'd try if I were you is going on anonymous chat rooms such as :strangermeetup/connected2me/tohla/omegle/etc and chat with people there, since it is completely anonymous and you have the option of disconnecting anytime you want you might find it much more easier to expose your true self on there and create a powerful connection with the girl from the very beginning, also you'll create a more accurate impression of her personality and get a more objective view of how they truly are as a person since you don't know how they look like so you won't be distracted by their looks and start rationalizing away their red flags due to your dick.

 

 

 

 

On a more personal note...I don't understand your motivation (or anyone else's) for looking for a girlfriend as the basic premise, the starting point of a relationship...I have no intention of getting a girlfriend anytime soon but the way I'd do it is this way:

 

1.start talking to a girl that you matched on a dating site/met on the street/forum/chatroom/social media/etc that created a good or very good first impression on you.

2.after you got to know her better in so far that you are confident in your evaluation of the value and quality she represents to me...and it is a very good one...then I'd befriend her. (the thing is in this period you can get to text/meet/etc how many girls you want)

3.get to know her even better by talking and getting involved with her even more

4.if there proves to be a mutual compatibility, need, desire, want, value exchange, sexual chemistry, attraction (physical and mental) and so forth (and if these things are not present you still won a good friend while you get to look for another girl to become your girlfriend), then you becoming boyfriend and girlfriend is just a natural and logical continuation of your relationship.

 

 

So, that's pretty much the approach I'd take, at least this is the way I am seeing things now...

 

 

Some people would object to my approach saying that you are throwing yourself into the friend zone gratuitously, but I call bullshit on this "friend zone" thing. Friendzone doesn't exist. The term friend in friend zone is misused and a disgrace to what a friend really means, a friend would not manipulate you into staying around them when they know you potentially have a romantic interest in them and they don't, milking you of your time and resources...

 

Also...I never understood why people assume that "friend" and "sex" are mutually exclusive concepts...why shouldn't /couldn't/wouldn't you have sex with your friends? (unless they are into a monogamous relationship)...questions I never got a good answer to...

[Andrew31]

The term friend in friend zone is misused and a disgrace to what a friend really means, a friend would not manipulate you into staying around them when they know you potentially have a romantic interest in them and they don't, milking you of your time and resources...

Nicely said. 

My facebook is quite a mess and I feel inadequate with such social media sites. Also I'm in eastern Europe, we don't have these anonymous chats. 

I'm quite impatient with friends and I can't stand talking ordinary stuff. I'm also a bit narcissistic with my brother and don't have patience to talk about gaming and his interests. I feel I need a "friend" with witch our souls and characters in a way naturally add to each other and we are intimate like you can't with any friend. With witch to share household and help each other sexually. And when I look at her to think what a great mother she'll be to our kids. I feel I don't have patience to being a friend with a girl for a long time. 

[Jot]

Nicely said. 

My facebook is quite a mess and I feel inadequate with such social media sites. Also I'm in eastern Europe, we don't have these anonymous chats. 

I'm quite impatient with friends and I can't stand talking ordinary stuff. I'm also a bit narcissistic with my brother and don't have patience to talk about gaming and his interests. I feel I need a "friend" with witch our souls and characters in a way naturally add to each other and we are intimate like you can't with any friend. With witch to share household and help each other sexually. And when I look at her to think what a great mother she'll be to our kids. I feel I don't have patience to being a friend with a girl for a long time. 

Why does it have to be a long time?

[dsayers]

Why does it have to be a long time?

Stellar question. I haven't read the thread, but I need to share all the same.

 

I've worked on my own self-knowledge ferociously for about three years now. Because of prior defeatism, I didn't have much "real life" to have to tend to, so the time I spent was very potent. I had reached a stage in my journey where I really wanted to start branching out, meeting people, and developing a healthy support network. This is when I met her.

 

Because of the self-knowledge work I had done, her virtue was very apparent to me. I approached her and I shit you not, from that moment on, we had not spent a moment apart from one another that we didn't have to. We both were instantly met with the challenge of integrating the other into our lives. The challenge was fleeting though as we both understood that the conversations we were having were literally the best use of our time. As a result, in record time, we've moved to be together and started the rest of our lives together.

 

I don't say this to get others' hopes up about how quickly it WILL happen. But it is very accurate to point out how quickly it CAN happen. When Stef says that love is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous, he's not lying. Both of us would tell you that the entire process was quite involuntary. It makes it that much sweeter to be sure.

[Andrew31]

dsayers, what you say brings some bitterness and frustration in me. I've waited 5 years for such a thing, wished for it, now should I try to settle for less or wait more till it happens? I'm really interested, how old are you, what job you have, 1 to 10 how attractive are you and she? Have you had girls before? I'll be thankful for whatever you can tell me in whatever way you'd be comfortable. I just can't imagine a woman would be that much in to philosophy and talking with me. At least not a woman that would like me. I imagine that the man has his philosophy and other uniteresting stuff to her. She has her going to coffees with friends, living in the moment, and shallow stuff. 

[Jot]

dsayers, what you say brings some bitterness and frustration in me. I've waited 5 years for such a thing, wished for it, now should I try to settle for less or wait more till it happens? I'm really interested, how old are you, what job you have, 1 to 10 how attractive are you and she? Have you had girls before? I'll be thankful for whatever you can tell me in whatever way you'd be comfortable. I just can't imagine a woman would be that much in to philosophy and talking with me. At least not a woman that would like me. I imagine that the man has his philosophy and other uniteresting stuff to her. She has her going to coffees with friends, living in the moment, and shallow stuff. 

What are your requirements for looks? How low would you go, and what are you from 1-10?

[Andrew31]

Before going to dance classes I considered myself 7-8, now may be 6-7. I'd be ok with a woman around 4-5 if she likes me, without the need for her to be very philosophical and intelligent. I've send about 10 messages in a dating site yesterday, haven't had a response so far.

[Jot]

Before going to dance classes I considered myself 7-8, now may be 6-7. I'd be ok with a woman around 4-5 if she likes me, without the need for her to be very philosophical and intelligent. I've send about 10 messages in a dating site yesterday, haven't had a response so far.

Your requirements struck me as low...from 1-10 where would you rate your self-esteem?

[Andrew31]

Thank you for your interest in my ass. In Nathaniel Brandon sense, I'd rate my self esteem pretty high (9/10). In dating market value, it's empirically proven I'm tough to sell. If women are shallow and don't give me a chance, I won't be like them. I'll give chances(initiate talk) to 3's I guess.

[dsayers]

dsayers, what you say brings some bitterness and frustration in me. I've waited 5 years for such a thing, wished for it, now should I try to settle for less or wait more till it happens?

Here's the irony in my story: I was in the process of being prepared to settle for less when I found somebody that showed me that not only should I not have to, but I would've lost out on if I had. Meeting her, she has literally become the standard by which I judge ALL of my personal relationships, both past and future. You're already living "less than the best," so don't shoot for more of the same is my advice. I'm 39 and have had a life of nearly perpetual hardship. I even have the words VICTIM and TORMENTED tattooed on my body if that's any indication of the level of despair I've felt.

 

1 to 10 how attractive are you and she? Have you had girls before?

I'd say I'm about a 6 and she's at least an 8. Yes, I have had a number of female partners, but mostly when I was young. In fact, there came a point where I felt as if all I could do was hurt others, so I withdrew significantly. Then when I felt all I could do was get hurt, I withdrew further. It had been 13 years (!) since my last romantic relationship when I finally found that virtuous somebody else.

[Jot]

Here's the irony in my story: I was in the process of being prepared to settle for less when I found somebody that showed me that not only should I not have to, but I would've lost out on if I had. Meeting her, she has literally become the standard by which I judge ALL of my personal relationships, both past and future. You're already living "less than the best," so don't shoot for more of the same is my advice. I'm 39 and have had a life of nearly perpetual hardship. I even have the words VICTIM and TORMENTED tattooed on my body if that's any indication of the level of despair I've felt.

 

I'd say I'm about a 6 and she's at least an 8. Yes, I have had a number of female partners, but mostly when I was young. In fact, there came a point where I felt as if all I could do was hurt others, so I withdrew significantly. Then when I felt all I could do was get hurt, I withdrew further. It had been 13 years (!) since my last romantic relationship when I finally found that virtuous somebody else.

I am not understanding this sentiment...of settling down for less...it feels so sado-masochistical to me...

If I was in that situation settling down for me would never cross my mind...I'd rather die alone and go to hookers.

[Andrew31]

I'm sorry for what you've been trough, when I'm sitting here complaining for lost opportunities of about 5 years. Some people like you and Stef had that moment when they met the person and and from the first moments they had little doubt they've got themselves a good partner and have good time from the beginning. But I'm trying to find a balance between how we'd be fit together and how long it will take me to meet her. Also, finding a personality jewel among 30+ woman, logically should be much easier, then young women. Also let's say there are much more philosophical man then philosophical women. And there are much more women liking going for coffee and experiencing cool things then man. So the latter woman is what in a way fits a philosophical man. So I'd have to be quite lucky to be like you and Stef, specially when I'm 25 and wish for woman around 20. I really want a relationship with young woman with similar sexual experience (near 0) with witch to be able to have a lot of children for the highest period of time possible. 

[Jot]

I'm sorry for what you've been trough, when I'm sitting here complaining for lost opportunities of about 5 years. Some people like you and Stef had that moment when they met the person and and from the first moments they had little doubt they've got themselves a good partner and have good time from the beginning. But I'm trying to find a balance between how we'd be fit together and how long it will take me to meet her. Also, finding a personality jewel among 30+ woman, logically should be much easier, then young women. Also let's say there are much more philosophical man then philosophical women. And there are much more women liking going for coffee and experiencing cool things then man. So the latter woman is what in a way fits a philosophical man. So I'd have to be quite lucky to be like you and Stef, specially when I'm 25 and wish for woman around 20. I really want a relationship with young woman with similar sexual experience (near 0) with witch to be able to have a lot of children for the highest period of time possible. 

How many children? :|

[Andrew31]

I want the flexibility to have additional children later in case we begin to have more money. But at least 2 in worst case.

[Thomasio]

It may be quite late for me to step in here, since this is a rather old topic, but since there is still activity in here, let me give you a few ideas out of my personal experience.

 

I grew up in an almost pure male environment, aside of my mom and my younger sister.

Almost all the neighbors who had children my age were all boys, some coincidence.

In school I was in a 100% boys class, because in my school in my year there were so many more boys than girls, that they decided to make all classes mixed 50/50 plus one class all boys and I was one of those.

By the time I got to high school, out of the past experience with girls, or better the lack thereof, I kinda avoided any contact to girls.

When my interest in girls awakened, sometime around my 16th or 17th bday, I had the (false) impression, I should look for a girl outside my own environment, no clue why, maybe I didn't see any attractive girls among my friends, or because I was kinda late and all of the girls I knew already had a boyfriend and I wasn't in for "stealing" one from one of my friends.

 

I went to bars and discotheques just to discover, there was a vast majority of single men, all looking for girls, but rarely any single girls and the few there were, mostly were looking for a rich guy.

 

After a while I kinda gave up, thinking I might remain single for the rest of my life.

But then things happened on their own, or at least without me consciously working in that direction.

 

My first job was a computer technician, doing PC home service at customers, in the very earliest stages of personal computers, where anyone knowing how to fix a computer was considered an over natural being or something like that.

At first I didn't even realize what was going on, I just wondered, why some single women, working at home with their computer would call me for help, while there was nothing wrong with their computers.

Call me dumb or slow, but it took me almost a year before I discovered, they didn't want my help with computers, they wanted ME.

Once I got the point I had a WILD time with up to 5 "girlfriends" simultaneously, up to 15 years older than me, which gave me some good experience.

But then one day I messed up, those girls got to know each other and I was single again.

 

Then I started playing pool billard in a club and at least within the limited skills available in my town I was pretty good at it.

I became the #1 in the club ranking, got quite some attention, including all the girls in the club, I had somewhat free choice which one I wanted.

Of course I picked one and this time I was smart enough to limit it to that one.

We were a good match, but her parents didn't like me, maybe because they had heard of me and my story with those 5 girlfriends, however, it didn't last too long.

 

Next the internet was invented, I was among the first people online, I saw the development of the very first chat rooms, followed by the very first gaming rooms.

I learned to play backgammon there and even on a global level I was pretty good at it.

In the early times, a game room was mostly a chat room, where the actual game was somewhat only a side event, but different from plain chat rooms there was no majority of men and the general attitude of lonesome men bothering anyone who pretended to be female didn't exist in the game rooms.

I managed to become #1 in the ranking of one of the biggest backgammon game room on the web, got the attention of all the others, including all the girls, meaning now I had somewhat free choice worldwide among 1000s of girls.

There was one who lived only 20km away from me, I met her, she was by only a few days difference my age and I fell in love instantly.

She must have felt the same and we had 4 wonderful years, until she had an opportunity for her own career that took her 1000s of km away.

She took the offer and despite promising to stay in touch, she disappeared, I never heard from her again.

 

I went back to the backgammon room, which by now was a bit converted, because those lonesome men from the chat rooms had discovered where the real girls are, but there still were some players who remembered me.

We founded a little online club for backgammon, setting up teams, competing against each other, where I became the captain of my team.

After a year or so, one of the other captains had a problem with her computer.

I offered to come over and fix it, even though she lived 1000km away in a different country.

Since that country was Italy and it was summer, I figured taking a few days vacation at the beach would be a good idea and fixing her computer was a good excuse to take a few days off work.

I got stuck there, I moved in with her a year later, later on married her and tomorrow is our 10th anniversary.

I found her too late, so we don't have kids, but we're quite happy anyway.

 

In short:

You shouldn't try and seek a girl, the whole idea of going around looking for a girl is already the wrong approach.

Try to be good at something, if possible the best, even if it's something as meaningless as online backgammon and the opportunity, maybe even a choice will come to you by itself.

[Andrew31]

Interesting story. Apparently women want a winner, no matter in what. You seem more in the open minded camp. I'm in the more patriarchal/hypergamous camp. The thought of meeting a nice woman, we are friends, lovers everything is great, just the tiny little detail that she's at the end of her fertility and can't have children angers me quite a lot. I want to give my best(in carrier) and want a brand new nice looking woman.

I said "I'd be ok with a woman around 4-5 if she likes me, without the need for her to be very philosophical and intelligent.", and I met a woman kinda like that the day before yesterday. I was attracted when on a beer, but I told her if we get together I'll eventually want to upgrade her for younger, better looking. I'm leaving finding a girlfriend aside for a while. I'll be temporary mgtow till I begin making enough money to live more freely and for the moment, and enjoy outside activities. May be that would be better time to look for a woman.