The manipulated becomes the manipulator

[Kurtis]

I have manipulated the people that I care about.  

 

Recently I have been shown by a couple brave, wonderful people that I manipulated them.  I used them for my own needs at the expense of their own.  

 

I had initially become aware of this tendency in a romantic relationship that ended several months ago.  I thought I was being mindful and had been avoiding repeating this behaviour.  I was wrong.

 

I learned this behaviour from my mother, who to this day continues to lack empathy and who furthers her own interests at the costs of others. When I am shown my hurtful actions towards those I hold dear, I see that I am acting in the exact same way as her.  I know how much this hurts others because I have suffered the same treatment.

 

Even when I am in the moment where I am manipulating someone and they call me out on it, I still feel this drive to keep going.  Consciously I abhor this behaviour and yet subconsciously I continue to repeat it.  

 

I will be making this the focus of my therapy (next session is in a few days).  However, I am also appealing to the community for any perspectives that may be of help.  I want to make new friends and find a partner, but I need to resolve this before I can responsibly feel free to do so.  I do not want to hurt anyone else.  I am frightened by the power of this behaviour and my inability to control it.

 

I have tried to keep this as concise as possible, but will freely elaborate on any details if needed. 

[_LiveFree_]

Lying fallow and not pursuing new relationships while you work through these issues may be the right course. Timing is as important as effort in new relationships and if you're working to build new relationships then 1) you're building off of standards already in place (some may still be dysfunctional), 2) you're not putting that energy into your self work. Having a good therapist and a couple close friends to talk with is important of course, but self work is hard and is by definition a somewhat solitary affair.

[Kurtis]

Lying fallow and not pursuing new relationships while you work through these issues may be the right course. Timing is as important as effort in new relationships and if you're working to build new relationships then 1) you're building off of standards already in place (some may still be dysfunctional), 2) you're not putting that energy into your self work. Having a good therapist and a couple close friends to talk with is important of course, but self work is hard and is by definition a somewhat solitary affair.

 

Thanks again Nathan.  Your first point is a helpful perspective.  I have been wondering if new relationships could be beneficial to my healing process (as in finding others also interested in philosophy), but your point makes a lot of sense to me.  I need to undo the standards I have for some behaviours before I can replace them with more healthful ones.

 

Your second point is something I have recently come to accept.  Pursuing new relationships is very time intensive and I need that time to work on myself.  In the past I know at times I would seek new relationships as a direct way to avoid doing said work.

[notjam]

they don't call it "the cycle of abuse" for nothing

you might want to start with forgiveness for your mom's manipulation and lack of empathy. 

"wrote a song about it. like to hear it here it go"

 

the oppressor the oppressed

when the victim becomes the victimizer
and the oppressor the oppressed
my sympathy torments my anger
but still I'm just a child

when the abused becomes the abuser
and the misuser the misused
my sympathy torments my anger
but still I'm just a child

when the scorned becomes the scorner
and the aggressor  the aggressed 
my sympathy torments my anger
but still I'm just a child

when the neglector becomes neglected
and the tormentor tormented 
my sympathy subdues my anger
but still I'm just a child


my mother was neglectful, oppressive and cold
as a child she was a victim of atrocities I could never know
the anger in her eyes, the rage in her voice
showed her torment as a child, of which she never had a choice
to sympathize with your oppressor
to rationalize disrespect
to rise above the anguish
and trivialize the neglect
to empathize with your aggressor
the oppressor the oppressed

1-15-14

http://allpoetry.com/poem/11272319-the-oppressor-the-oppressed-by-Forms-In-Space

[_LiveFree_]

Notjam, why do you post here? What do you wish to get out of it?

[David Ottinger]

Kurtis,

 

Very interesting skill development, isn't it?  Consider how intuitive you have to be to pull off manipulation.  I find that an individual has to have a high degree of empathy to be able to do that.  Otherwise, how else can you calculate your way into a winning position?   Mind you, empathy does not equal sympathy.


Overall, given your expressed disgust with how your mother used this skill, I would say the main question here is: How would you genuinely enjoy using this skill? 

 

[Kurtis]

I learned this behaviour from my mother, who to this day continues to lack empathy...

 

Even when I am in the moment where I am manipulating someone and they call me out on it, I still feel this drive to keep going.

 

 

 

Thank you David for your response, the point about empathy versus sympathy is a very interesting one for me.

 

I have been thinking that my mother lacks empathy, but I can't argue with your point about sympathy, and how empathy would be required in order to manipulate.

 

I consider then that she lacks sympathy, which makes sense because if she were to have sympathy, then her own narrative (of being an awesome parent) would be threatened.

 

In my last therapy session, when discussing this topic, I made a substantial breakthrough. Which is that I saw my motivation, or reason, as to why I manipulate. Every time I have manipulated it was because I was trying to protect some intimacy I had at that moment in my life. Intimacy/love is something very precious and powerful for me due to my childhood history of abandonment and lack of parental attachment.

 

This in no way means that the manipulation is excused or good. Also, the intimacy I'm protecting may very well be unhealthy. For example, in the past I tried to manipulate a friend who (for very good reasons) was opposed to me dating someone.

 

This understanding is huge for me, as I already have experience with other past subconscious behaviours that I was finally able to stop, after learning why I did them (making them conscious).

 

 

How would you genuinely enjoy using this skill?

 

Specifically, I would love to use this skill to enrich the lives of a future partner and potential children of ours.

 

I have tried to do this with partners in the past, except I was still "in my childhood" and so was replaying the pattern I had with my mother, which was to do everything I could to make the other person happy, to the point of self erasure or sacrifice.

 

However, with my improved emotional health the goal now would be to do this in a win-win format so as to enrich my own life by the very process of enriching others.

 

This is how I see myself able to create a positive force in the world, by starting with myself, friends, and then a family of my own.

 

Thank you for your help David!

[David Ottinger]

Thanks for sharing.  It takes a lot of courage to put these sensitive dilemmas out there.