Kurtis Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have manipulated the people that I care about. Recently I have been shown by a couple brave, wonderful people that I manipulated them. I used them for my own needs at the expense of their own. I had initially become aware of this tendency in a romantic relationship that ended several months ago. I thought I was being mindful and had been avoiding repeating this behaviour. I was wrong. I learned this behaviour from my mother, who to this day continues to lack empathy and who furthers her own interests at the costs of others. When I am shown my hurtful actions towards those I hold dear, I see that I am acting in the exact same way as her. I know how much this hurts others because I have suffered the same treatment. Even when I am in the moment where I am manipulating someone and they call me out on it, I still feel this drive to keep going. Consciously I abhor this behaviour and yet subconsciously I continue to repeat it. I will be making this the focus of my therapy (next session is in a few days). However, I am also appealing to the community for any perspectives that may be of help. I want to make new friends and find a partner, but I need to resolve this before I can responsibly feel free to do so. I do not want to hurt anyone else. I am frightened by the power of this behaviour and my inability to control it. I have tried to keep this as concise as possible, but will freely elaborate on any details if needed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_LiveFree_ Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Lying fallow and not pursuing new relationships while you work through these issues may be the right course. Timing is as important as effort in new relationships and if you're working to build new relationships then 1) you're building off of standards already in place (some may still be dysfunctional), 2) you're not putting that energy into your self work. Having a good therapist and a couple close friends to talk with is important of course, but self work is hard and is by definition a somewhat solitary affair. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtis Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Lying fallow and not pursuing new relationships while you work through these issues may be the right course. Timing is as important as effort in new relationships and if you're working to build new relationships then 1) you're building off of standards already in place (some may still be dysfunctional), 2) you're not putting that energy into your self work. Having a good therapist and a couple close friends to talk with is important of course, but self work is hard and is by definition a somewhat solitary affair. Thanks again Nathan. Your first point is a helpful perspective. I have been wondering if new relationships could be beneficial to my healing process (as in finding others also interested in philosophy), but your point makes a lot of sense to me. I need to undo the standards I have for some behaviours before I can replace them with more healthful ones. Your second point is something I have recently come to accept. Pursuing new relationships is very time intensive and I need that time to work on myself. In the past I know at times I would seek new relationships as a direct way to avoid doing said work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notjam Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 they don't call it "the cycle of abuse" for nothing you might want to start with forgiveness for your mom's manipulation and lack of empathy. "wrote a song about it. like to hear it here it go" the oppressor the oppressed when the victim becomes the victimizerand the oppressor the oppressedmy sympathy torments my angerbut still I'm just a childwhen the abused becomes the abuserand the misuser the misusedmy sympathy torments my angerbut still I'm just a childwhen the scorned becomes the scornerand the aggressor the aggressed my sympathy torments my angerbut still I'm just a childwhen the neglector becomes neglectedand the tormentor tormented my sympathy subdues my angerbut still I'm just a childmy mother was neglectful, oppressive and coldas a child she was a victim of atrocities I could never knowthe anger in her eyes, the rage in her voiceshowed her torment as a child, of which she never had a choiceto sympathize with your oppressorto rationalize disrespectto rise above the anguishand trivialize the neglectto empathize with your aggressorthe oppressor the oppressed 1-15-14 http://allpoetry.com/poem/11272319-the-oppressor-the-oppressed-by-Forms-In-Space 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_LiveFree_ Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Notjam, why do you post here? What do you wish to get out of it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ottinger Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Kurtis, Very interesting skill development, isn't it? Consider how intuitive you have to be to pull off manipulation. I find that an individual has to have a high degree of empathy to be able to do that. Otherwise, how else can you calculate your way into a winning position? Mind you, empathy does not equal sympathy.Overall, given your expressed disgust with how your mother used this skill, I would say the main question here is: How would you genuinely enjoy using this skill? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtis Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 I learned this behaviour from my mother, who to this day continues to lack empathy... Even when I am in the moment where I am manipulating someone and they call me out on it, I still feel this drive to keep going. Thank you David for your response, the point about empathy versus sympathy is a very interesting one for me. I have been thinking that my mother lacks empathy, but I can't argue with your point about sympathy, and how empathy would be required in order to manipulate. I consider then that she lacks sympathy, which makes sense because if she were to have sympathy, then her own narrative (of being an awesome parent) would be threatened. In my last therapy session, when discussing this topic, I made a substantial breakthrough. Which is that I saw my motivation, or reason, as to why I manipulate. Every time I have manipulated it was because I was trying to protect some intimacy I had at that moment in my life. Intimacy/love is something very precious and powerful for me due to my childhood history of abandonment and lack of parental attachment. This in no way means that the manipulation is excused or good. Also, the intimacy I'm protecting may very well be unhealthy. For example, in the past I tried to manipulate a friend who (for very good reasons) was opposed to me dating someone. This understanding is huge for me, as I already have experience with other past subconscious behaviours that I was finally able to stop, after learning why I did them (making them conscious). How would you genuinely enjoy using this skill? Specifically, I would love to use this skill to enrich the lives of a future partner and potential children of ours. I have tried to do this with partners in the past, except I was still "in my childhood" and so was replaying the pattern I had with my mother, which was to do everything I could to make the other person happy, to the point of self erasure or sacrifice. However, with my improved emotional health the goal now would be to do this in a win-win format so as to enrich my own life by the very process of enriching others. This is how I see myself able to create a positive force in the world, by starting with myself, friends, and then a family of my own. Thank you for your help David! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ottinger Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thanks for sharing. It takes a lot of courage to put these sensitive dilemmas out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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