My Family Has Emotional Hostages

[J. D. Stembal]

I received a letter from my seven year old sister for the first time this week, nearly two months after I separated from my family of origin.

 

I have made it abundantly clear to my family that I will never see or speak to them again, which obviously includes my father's mistress and her children. The children have done nothing wrong, but it is clear from my sister's letter that she is upset. She asks when I will have to money to visit home again, and wants to know why I don't visit more often.

 

I have not been able to talk to my brother and sister about my familial separataion, but I irrationally hoped that my father would process my ostracism, admit to his shortcomings as a parent, explaining my reasons to the kids. It is now obvious that he will take his arrogance to the grave with him, so he is now using my sister as a manipulation tool in an attempt to get me to respond.

 

Part of me saw this move coming from my father since my mother also tried to use guilt, "What do I tell the kids?" in order to have me reconsider. I told her to tell them the truth. I am very conflicted about writing back. I have nothing to gain by it, and a lot to lose.

[kavih]

That's a tough situation JD. If you have the option to talk with your sister on the phone or in person, I would recommend that over written communication, especially since so much can be lost in that form. Maybe just write back telling her you would like to talk with her about it on the phone, so that at least you responded to her (haven't left a feeling of abandonment). As for arranging the call, if you don't want to have your other family members involved, maybe also include your number in your letter back to her and have her call you.

[_LiveFree_]

Hey J.D.,

 

do you mind talking about the circumstances that led up to you separating from your family?

 

Thanks

[Lens]

What you said is very true they are using her to obtain your coming back and btw your father will never change like most parents because these parents have to go thru so much guilt because of what they have done to their children before even going on resolving their own childhood that is why most parents use manipulative "sweet" words or use younger siblings to inflict guilt on you, they do this to you to avoid self knowledge because your defoo is showing them that they are not good people. 

 

Obviously your sister in my view is a victim because she is still a child and she cannot be held responsible for her actions and she cannot understand that you escaped the prison where she is in right now (without knowing) and she has been in that prison for 7 years, she has been swallowing a new dose of your family poison each new day, her brain and pathways are intoxicated already and deeply and she cannot see herself the prison she is in because it is unbearable for her as a child, remember when we were children we also used dissociation to not to feel and see the prison we were in. I am so deeply sorry JD that you have to go through this pain, actually they made you go through this but at least this will show you the real face of your father and you will slowly abandon your hopes and I can tell you the more you abandon your hopes for "a better family" the more you will be free of them, there was never good family and there will never bend it takes time and therapy to fully accept this painful truth.

 

One last thing bad people use your sensitivity to ethics and morality and they play on those cords you need to know that information and you need to know that by them knowing very well ethics doesn't make them ethical people they actually hate ethics at the highest level they use it against you they already did in your childhood and that is why it still confuses you but you are on your way to the truth about your family please beware of narcissists !

[WasatchMan]

This is rough man.  I don't know the answer, but I will say that it is not necessarily the right choice to tell your sister and brother about why you are not around.  Like you said, she is a hostage, and can't leave, and is only 7.  What do you expect her to do with this information?  Telling her may only make it harder for her, especially since you can't be around.

 

Like I said, I don't know, but I would consider this. 

[MMX2010]

 

I have not been able to talk to my brother and sister about my familial separataion, but I irrationally hoped that my father would process my ostracism, admit to his shortcomings as a parent, explaining my reasons to the kids. It is now obvious that he will take his arrogance to the grave with him, so he is now using my sister as a manipulation tool in an attempt to get me to respond.

 

Part of me saw this move coming from my father since my mother also tried to use guilt, "What do I tell the kids?" in order to have me reconsider. I told her to tell them the truth. I am very conflicted about writing back. I have nothing to gain by it, and a lot to lose.

 

You have everything to gain by writing back.  You have the emotional health and well-being of a seven-year old child. 

 

I've walled away my parents from my emotional landscape.  We can talk about limited subjects, and I feel nothing.  If they were to try and discuss the other forbidden topics (which is very unlikely, since they're cowardly), I can easily brush them off.  This wall allows me to emotionally connect to my niece and (occasionally) discuss my childhood with my brother.

 

So if I were to project my situation on to yours, I'd say, "First, you need a wall.  Second, you need to read what the seven year old girl wants, and give it to her." 

[J. D. Stembal]

So if I were to project my situation on to yours, I'd say, "First, you need a wall.  Second, you need to read what the seven year old girl wants, and give it to her." 

 

P.S. I have a second reply still in limbo.

 

I've already tried the emotional wall with my parents. It was drinking, and it nearly destroyed me. I can't be around them if I can't be myself. The real me only provokes my parents. The real me frightens my mother and repels her. The real me agitates my father, and sends him into a helpless rage. I also can't play the role of happy older brother to my siblings any more. It's not to punish them, but to keep me sane.

 

I've decided that the best response is to publish a public video addressing my family. That way, my father can't edit or massage the message, or prevent others in my family from seeing or hearing it. I can already tell that he has been lying to my siblings, and spinning my absence in a such way that makes him out to be a great parent.

 

When my brother and sister are old enough to use computers independently of my father at public school, they can easily find me and know the truth.

[MMX2010]

P.S. I have a second reply still in limbo.

 

I've already tried the emotional wall with my parents. It was drinking, and it nearly destroyed me. I can't be around them if I can't be myself. The real me only provokes my parents. The real me frightens my mother and repels her. The real me agitates my father, and sends him into a helpless rage. I also can't play the role of happy older brother to my siblings any more. It's not to punish them, but to keep me sane.

 

I've decided that the best response is to publish a public video addressing my family. That way, my father can't edit or massage the message, or prevent others in my family from seeing or hearing it. I can already tell that he has been lying to my siblings, and spinning my absence in a such way that makes him out to be a great parent.

 

When my brother and sister are old enough to use computers independently of my father at public school, they can easily find me and know the truth.

 

When we discuss TLP's articles, you'll get to hear my thesis that all talk about "The Real Me" is Narcissistic and Confusing.  The Real You will be who you present yourself as to your younger siblings, and that presentation will be constantly critiqued and maligned by your parents.

 

If you think one video is the best you can do, then do it.  But I'm warning you that one video won't be enough when your younger siblings are exposed to daily slandering of the video's intentions and meanings. 

 

You're basically expecting seven year olds to magically understand what's really going on, despite the fact that they're seven and despite the fact that you're severely limiting your communication with them.  That expectation is irrational, and will not succeed. 

[J. D. Stembal]

When we discuss TLP's articles, you'll get to hear my thesis that all talk about "The Real Me" is Narcissistic and Confusing.  The Real You will be who you present yourself as to your younger siblings, and that presentation will be constantly critiqued and maligned by your parents.

 

If you think one video is the best you can do, then do it.  But I'm warning you that one video won't be enough when your younger siblings are exposed to daily slandering of the video's intentions and meanings. 

 

You're basically expecting seven year olds to magically understand what's really going on, despite the fact that they're seven and despite the fact that you're severely limiting your communication with them.  That expectation is irrational, and will not succeed. 

 

I appreciate the feedback, MMX.

 

My siblings are 8 and 10, actually, so they are rapidly approaching the age where the shit is really going to hit the fan for them and my family. The next four to five years are going to be rough for them. The sooner that I air out the bullshit, the better. If they are curious about me then I don't see how they can miss the videos. I'm one of two people in their thirties with my family name in this country, and the other person is female and hyphenates hers. I initially used an alias online as I was afraid to speak the truth about my family, and afraid of the consequences. Anyone who searches my name can now see my story as I am afraid no longer.

 

I'm not willing to engage with my family no matter how much my brother and sister wish to speak with me. Like I said in the reply still in limbo, I didn't ask to have siblings young enough to be my children. I hold no positive obligations towards them as they are not my children, but I can empathize with their situation because I grew up with two of the same people around me, or rather, hardly around me at all.

[MMX2010]

I appreciate the feedback, MMX.

 

My siblings are 8 and 10, actually, so they are rapidly approaching the age where the shit is really going to hit the fan for them and my family. The next four to five years are going to be rough for them. The sooner that I air out the bullshit, the better. If they are curious about me then I don't see how they can miss the videos. I'm one of two people in their thirties with my family name in this country, and the other person is female and hyphenates hers. I initially used an alias online as I was afraid to speak the truth about my family, and afraid of the consequences. Anyone who searches my name can now see my story as I am afraid no longer.

 

I'm not willing to engage with my family no matter how much my brother and sister wish to speak with me. Like I said in the reply still in limbo, I didn't ask to have siblings young enough to be my children. I hold no positive obligations towards them as they are not my children, but I can empathize with their situation because I grew up with two of the same people around me, or rather, hardly around me at all.

 

You don't have any positive obligations, but I always infer a person's skill-level, character, and empathy based on the positive obligations they refuse to take. 

 

There's a way to maximize contact between your younger siblings while minimizing the contact between your parents.  There's a way to maximize that contact while maximally protecting yourself and maximally looking out for your siblings.

 

But from the way you communicate, I get the impression that you're trying to maximally protect yourself by minimizing the contact you have between yourself and your siblings. 

[J-William]

I'm not willing to engage with my family no matter how much my brother and sister wish to speak with me. Like I said in the reply still in limbo, I didn't ask to have siblings young enough to be my children. I hold no positive obligations towards them as they are not my children, but I can empathize with their situation because I grew up with two of the same people around me, or rather, hardly around me at all.

I think you're on the right track with not engaging. you have no power over the lives of your siblings and your parents do. If you were to make them understand your reasons for breaking from your parents you would be causing them lots of problems.

 

On the other side of the equation they are not likely to believe the stories told by your parentsfor very long. If your parents spend the next few years beating the drum about what a bad guy you were they will be making an image in the minds of your siblings of a really cool guy who defied the will of the parents. They'll think you're James Dean or something. :-)

If they say nothing then it's not like your siblings will forget you, someday they will come be curious why you're not around.

 

On the lack of power... you can't do much to make their life better. If you tell the truth it's like saying "hey you're really stuck in prison for the next decade, Enjoy!" You can't win the propaganda war, the other side has the power of food and shelter, you have words.

[J. D. Stembal]

They'll think you're James Dean or something. :-)

If they say nothing then it's not like your siblings will forget you, someday they will come be curious why you're not around.

 

On the lack of power... you can't do much to make their life better. If you tell the truth it's like saying "hey you're really stuck in prison for the next decade, Enjoy!" You can't win the propaganda war, the other side has the power of food and shelter, you have words.

 

This is not my motivation. My motivation is to move toward self-esteem, which I cannot have and also have a relationship with my parents or the extended family. Honestly, I don't care if my brother and sister hate me for years. Being involved in this nonsense is detrimental to my physical and mental health.

 

You are correct. I do not have to power to grant my siblings salvation. They will have to give it to themselves, like I did. It took me a long while to accept this fact. I wanted to be the savior of my family. No dice.

 

The reply is out there. My conscience can rest easily.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTbXSgBdWZA

[MMX2010]

Don't like the video very much.  You used large words like "emotional bully", "not a good negotiator", and "can't be involved with this family because it's against my principles".  Is your sister seven or seventy? 

 

I respect the decision to use the yard and beautiful weather as a backdrop, but that should've been your focus.  Show how beautiful the weather is.  Show how happy and peaceful the land is.  Show yourself with friends, enjoying yourself. 

 

She didn't need a philosophically rigorous lecture.  She needed hope, understanding, empathy, and encouragement - none of which can be found in a philosophical lecture that she wouldn't understand. 

 

I also know that you dove into your head to imagine what you were going to say, but that's the problem!  Instead of Reading The Girl and empathizing with the girl, you read yourself, your own goals, and your "If I were a seven year old girl, what would I want to hear?"  (But you're not, and have never been, a seven year old girl, so how would you know?)

 

Worse, perhaps you didn't even ask yourself that question!  If you didn't, wow.  You were so heavily focused on your own needs and clearing your own conscience that you didn't even consider what she wants (and needs!) to hear. 

 

------------------------------

 

I can easily say what you should've said. 

 

"Dear boy's name and girl's name.  It's a beautiful day here where I live, and I've never been happier to be alive.  But there's a sadness, too, because I think of you every day.  Are you happy where you are?  Are you sad?  Do you think I don't miss you or don't care about you?  I hope not, because I think of you both every day.  I wish you could be happy the way I'm happy, and I wish you could be here with me.  If you think I hate you, stop.  I didn't leave because I hate you.  And I didn't leave because of anything wrong that you did.  I left because I needed to grow strong and be happy, just like you'll need to do someday.  I can't see myself talking with mom and dad, because they're never really happy, are they?  And it saddens me to know that you're living in that house.  Know that I've never abandoned you, and that you can talk to me whenever you need to.  This is my Skype address." 

 

Something like that, dude.  Something empathetic and hopeful.  And something focused on them, not you. 

[J. D. Stembal]

Don't like the video very much.  You used large words like "emotional bully", "not a good negotiator", and "can't be involved with this family because it's against my principles".  Is your sister seven or seventy? 

 

I respect the decision to use the yard and beautiful weather as a backdrop, but that should've been your focus.  Show how beautiful the weather is.  Show how happy and peaceful the land is.  Show yourself with friends, enjoying yourself. 

 

She didn't need a philosophically rigorous lecture.  She needed hope, understanding, empathy, and encouragement - none of which can be found in a philosophical lecture that she wouldn't understand. 

 

I also know that you dove into your head to imagine what you were going to say, but that's the problem!  Instead of Reading The Girl and empathizing with the girl, you read yourself, your own goals, and your "If I were a seven year old girl, what would I want to hear?"  (But you're not, and have never been, a seven year old girl, so how would you know?)

 

Worse, perhaps you didn't even ask yourself that question!  If you didn't, wow.  You were so heavily focused on your own needs and clearing your own conscience that you didn't even consider what she wants (and needs!) to hear. 

 

------------------------------

 

I can easily say what you should've said. 

 

"Dear boy's name and girl's name.  It's a beautiful day here where I live, and I've never been happier to be alive.  But there's a sadness, too, because I think of you every day.  Are you happy where you are?  Are you sad?  Do you think I don't miss you or don't care about you?  I hope not, because I think of you both every day.  I wish you could be happy the way I'm happy, and I wish you could be here with me.  If you think I hate you, stop.  I didn't leave because I hate you.  And I didn't leave because of anything wrong that you did.  I left because I needed to grow strong and be happy, just like you'll need to do someday.  I can't see myself talking with mom and dad, because they're never really happy, are they?  And it saddens me to know that you're living in that house.  Know that I've never abandoned you, and that you can talk to me whenever you need to.  This is my Skype address." 

 

Something like that, dude.  Something empathetic and hopeful.  And something focused on them, not you. 

 

Not all of that would be true, so I would not say it. The words emotional bully, and poor negotiator should resonate with them because they accurately describe my father. His wife is a hideous, two-faced, violent person, and my mother has simply sedated herself.

 

It is really hard being around my mother especially, because I can feel how dead she is inside. I was getting dangerously close to being dead inside and out.

 

I'm not sure if she was asked to leave the house she still co-owns or not, but she lives alone with a Shi Tzu. I can empathize with her because I currently live alone, but I'm not 64, and I already have a year of sobriety behind me. Many wonderful events have happened within my mind, body and spirit in that year! If I go back to see them now, I know that I will relapse, fall off the wagon, or hurt somebody.

 

I don't expect my siblings to understand all of this right now, but I had to be straight about not wanting to see them because I never want to see the three other adult family members in their lives. My brother and sister might never watch the video, but it's there if they ever find it. They might be in college by the time they watch it. Who knows?

 

Giving them my Skype information just gives my father what he wants, another way to contact me using his kids as his agents. It was a difficult gambit, but I refuse to play with children like emotional pawns. I am better than that!

[MMX2010]

I get what you're saying, but you used big words rather than emotional words.  And your facial expression (due to the sun, I think?) looks hostile and emotionally distant, like you're sneering. 

[_LiveFree_]

Well, MMX's post was quoted and responded to so I read it. F*** me I agree with him.

 

But I would go even further. I know you're wanting to move to a better place in your life J.D., but the course you're currently on won't get you there. You've replaced one addiction (alcohol) with another. How would you feel if you could only go for a jog 3 times a week? Could you keep it together? Be at peace? Be calm? Working out is easy, debating is easy, reading and listening to podcasts is easy.

 

Therapy done right is f***ing hard.

 

This thread isn't about your siblings being hostages. It's about you remaining a hostage to your parents. They're in your brain forever and they will torment you until you face them with curiosity and no defenses (in your mind). This is the role of a therapist; to be your tether to reality as you go spelunking into the depths of your mind. Parts of your mind adapted to and survived your parents by becoming them somewhat. They cannot be beaten with force or suppressed. To try is to project them out into the world.

 

There is no greater noob move than to mistake yourself as the world. I know this post sounds harsh but it's the level with which you are communicating presently. Harshly (even if you try to hide it by carefully choosing your words). Even your profile pic that you recently changed to is harsh. Rage is nothing more than a suicide bombing (hi NSA). You'll end up taking yourself out with a lot of collateral damage.

 

You cannot run from this. It is always right behind you until you turn to face it.

[MMX2010]

Well, MMX's post was quoted and responded to so I read it. F*** me I agree with him.

 

But I would go even further. I know you're wanting to move to a better place in your life J.D., but the course you're currently on won't get you there. You've replaced one addiction (alcohol) with another. How would you feel if you could only go for a jog 3 times a week? Could you keep it together? Be at peace? Be calm? Working out is easy, debating is easy, reading and listening to podcasts is easy.

 

Therapy done right is f***ing hard.

 

You emotionally understand what's happening, but your interpretation is off, so your conclusion is harmful. 

 

J.D.'s workout program isn't an addiction, it's his way of taking his life ultra-seriously. 

 

I've never been an alcoholic, but I can emotionally understand the social isolation, the shameful withdrawal from encountering life's problems, and the inexorable sense that you're permanently damaged.  So he's working out because he thinks he is shit, and wants to be far more worthy than shit.  I commend him for that.

 

But I don't recommend therapy because J.D. is already journaling and therapy will further strengthen his tendency to introspect, formulate a plan, and then act.  That introspection prevents him from Reading The Girl in both dating and empathizing with his younger siblings. 

 

 

 

This thread isn't about your siblings being hostages. It's about you remaining a hostage to your parents. They're in your brain forever and they will torment you until you face them with curiosity and no defenses (in your mind). This is the role of a therapist; to be your tether to reality as you go spelunking into the depths of your mind. Parts of your mind adapted to and survived your parents by becoming them somewhat. They cannot be beaten with force or suppressed. To try is to project them out into the world.

 

 

I'm not convinced, but I'm not saying your argument is wrong.  It's well-spoken, but I don't agree with it.  And I might change my mind in the future. 

 

If J.D. were to re-formulate his, "I'm shit because my parents were terrible to me!" Frame into an "I had a shitty childhood that still hurts today, but I can use that painful experience to uniquely minister to my younger siblings!" Frame, he'd develop a completely different plan of action.  That plan, which will be both flawed and contain nuggets of wisdom, will "force" him to repeatedly engage with his younger siblings.  Those repeated engagements will create empathy, the ability to read other people and give them what they want, which will lead to more real-world friendships. 

 

There is such a thing as too much introspection, and people who journal but have no friends are prone to the downsides of too much introspection: they dive into themselves too much and can't connect to other hurting people very well. 

 

 

 

There is no greater noob move than to mistake yourself as the world. I know this post sounds harsh but it's the level with which you are communicating presently. Harshly (even if you try to hide it by carefully choosing your words). Even your profile pic that you recently changed to is harsh. Rage is nothing more than a suicide bombing (hi NSA). You'll end up taking yourself out with a lot of collateral damage.

 

You cannot run from this. It is always right behind you until you turn to face it.

 

 

I take J.D.'s avatar as both a joke and something very serious.  It's a symbol of his commitment to bettering himself, but he'd be better served by realizing that he's already good enough to help his younger siblings...and then conducting himself accordingly. 

 

J.D., do you remember Read The Girl?  If you cannot read a seven year old girl who is going through a similar childhood as you, then what girls can you read?  Connecting with your younger sister should feel like Read The Girl on ultra-easy mode, but the benefits of doing so will be enormous. 

 

Stop thinking of yourself as worthless by proving your worth to her. 

[MagnumPI]

Just wanted to give you some respect for going through with the message, trying to get through to these kids, you're siblings. I was in a similar situation recently, where it was my mom using my niece to get me to re-initiate contact. And naturally, my niece was relaying everything I told her to my mom. I took the stance that she's fucked and I can't do anything until she's away from that toxic environment, and turning her against my mom would just make life more miserable for her. Nathan touched on that. And I know how nasty my mom can get, particularly with girls and my niece is shy, reserved, quiet. I fear for what kind of adult she'll become. It was tough for me and I was basically bred and challenged from day one to take on hardship.

I'm actually curious to how all this turns out for you. Maybe I can learn something from it. I don't like the ignore it, hope it gets better approach(which I'm basically taking).

Something random, perhaps related, perhaps just stupid shit running through my head, but it just popped up as I was thinking about this, so it could be important.

From the Green Mile. It was John Coffey said "He killed them with their love. That's how it is every day, all over the world".

[J. D. Stembal]

Well, MMX's post was quoted and responded to so I read it. F*** me I agree with him.

 

But I would go even further. I know you're wanting to move to a better place in your life J.D., but the course you're currently on won't get you there. You've replaced one addiction (alcohol) with another. How would you feel if you could only go for a jog 3 times a week? Could you keep it together? Be at peace? Be calm? Working out is easy, debating is easy, reading and listening to podcasts is easy.

 

Therapy done right is f***ing hard.

 

This thread isn't about your siblings being hostages. It's about you remaining a hostage to your parents. They're in your brain forever and they will torment you until you face them with curiosity and no defenses (in your mind). This is the role of a therapist; to be your tether to reality as you go spelunking into the depths of your mind. Parts of your mind adapted to and survived your parents by becoming them somewhat. They cannot be beaten with force or suppressed. To try is to project them out into the world.

 

There is no greater noob move than to mistake yourself as the world. I know this post sounds harsh but it's the level with which you are communicating presently. Harshly (even if you try to hide it by carefully choosing your words). Even your profile pic that you recently changed to is harsh. Rage is nothing more than a suicide bombing (hi NSA). You'll end up taking yourself out with a lot of collateral damage.

 

You cannot run from this. It is always right behind you until you turn to face it.

 

These are important concerns of mine, so I thank you for bringing them up, Nathan.

 

Exercise is not my new addiction. I've had to be very mindful about doing it regularly. Endorphines, for some reason, do not have the same effect on me. My drive to excel with weightlifting is a desire for my mind to have complete mastery over the body. Did you listen to the video I recorded about wanting to compete in weightlifting?

 

I've shed a lot of my addictions in the past year. I stopped playing video games which were introduced as my surrogate parents while growing up in order to quell the alienation of absentee parents. (I had the same computer Stefan bought to learn programming.) I gave up sex and romantic relationships because I have a long history of using women purely for sexual gratification. I have a couple video journals lined up addressing my sexual dysfunction.

 

I bolded the important part of your post. You are absolutely correct. I am a hostage as well as my siblings. This is why I want nothing to do with my family in reality. The relationship in my mind is complicated enough. I understand that there is a time and place to channel my mother and father parts, but I have yet to figure out where the two children fit into it. I will have to reflect more on this.

 

It was never my desire to set the children against my father, and their mother. I wrote my father, and explained to him, that if he didn't take a close look at his family and parenting, my brother and sister may also alienate him some day, provided he lives long enough.

 

My father has been struggling with his health since a 1998 heart attack. It is obvious why health, wellness, and fitness are so compelling to me if you met my father. Some days, he runs out of breath climbing the stairs, yet the summer before last, he cut down a 90 ft. tree all by himself using ladders, ropes and pulleys. He's an interesting human being. I'll grant him that. That doesn't prevent him from being a completely toxic personality to me.

 

What is harsh about my avatar? Do you think I'm expressing rage or anger in it? The wide-eyed, open-mouth facial expression is very polarizing for people, but it doesn't denote anger. It means that your mind is open to the world, and that you want to communicate, and express yourself.

 

People will either be repulsed by it because they don't want to talk to you, or they will walk right up and start chatting with you like you are neighbors. I was doing bodybuilding poses for progress photos a few weeks back, and one of my friends suggested that I make this photo my head shot. There may be a touch of aggression in my facial expression, but that's because I was flexing my entire upper body at the time. The thought in my mind - "Get it!"

 

Elliot Hulse has a video on it.

 

 

I do these expressions in public, too. It's fun to see how people react, and you feel great doing it.

 

P.S. It seems like Reply #4, my absent reply, is never going to pass inspection. Thank you, FDR!

[J. D. Stembal]

There is no greater noob move than to mistake yourself as the world. I know this post sounds harsh but it's the level with which you are communicating presently. Harshly (even if you try to hide it by carefully choosing your words). Even your profile pic that you recently changed to is harsh. Rage is nothing more than a suicide bombing (hi NSA). You'll end up taking yourself out with a lot of collateral damage.

 

You cannot run from this. It is always right behind you until you turn to face it.

 

It will be helpful to listen to the first call, Asshole Proximity Disorder, to better see my perspective, especially considering my history with extreme social anxiety and alcoholism.

 

 

There is also a danger in mistaking the world for yourself.

[_LiveFree_]

So are you saying that you are not rageful?

 

 

(I'm actually thinking a lot about your posts. Please don't think that my short responses mean I'm taking this lightly. I'm trying to be precise step by step as we go instead of talking past each other.)

[J. D. Stembal]

So are you saying that you are not rageful?

 

 

(I'm actually thinking a lot about your posts. Please don't think that my short responses mean I'm taking this lightly. I'm trying to be precise step by step as we go instead of talking past each other.)

 

No, not since I quit drinking. I have been prone to infrequent, but violent verbal or physical outbursts. One almost landed me in jail years ago. The anger that I talk about in Addiction & Anger is not snarling rage, as may have been interpreted to be in my recent avatar picture, but immense dissatisfaction with my upbringing and the emotional crutches that I had been using for the past twenty years.

 

Thank you for the consideration. It means a lot to me!

[_LiveFree_]

No, not since I quit drinking. I have been prone to infrequent, but violent verbal or physical outbursts. One almost landed me in jail years ago. The anger that I talk about in Addiction & Anger is not snarling rage, as may have been interpreted to be in my recent avatar picture, but immense dissatisfaction with my upbringing and the emotional crutches that I had been using for the past twenty years.

 

Thank you for the consideration. It means a lot to me!

 

Ok, so how did you process the rage when you stopped drinking? How long did it take?

 

Also, you're welcome! Let's keep it going!

[J. D. Stembal]

Ok, so how did you process the rage when you stopped drinking? How long did it take?

 

Also, you're welcome! Let's keep it going!

 

Are you asking me to identify the source of my rage?

 

I know the source of my rage, but I'm still looking at strategies for addressing it. Giving up meaningless sex, drugs, video games and alcohol is just the start of a new beginning.

 

My rage comes from my former inability to stand up to my family, and speak my mind. When I finally did stand up and tell them who I was, which happened just before I stopped drinking, it was like they didn't recognize me. I was openly mocked by my father, and my mother started to act extremely nervous around me. She nearly ran away from me when I asked her about the time my father bloodied her nose while I was listening to them argue from the next room. She refuses to acknowledge that it happened, but I know it did, even if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

 

Of course, this reaction is understandable, but every interaction I've had with them since then has been extremely manipulative, of which this thread is the prime example. They know how to say the words, "I'm sorry," but they have no idea how to own the consequences of that admission. If my parents recognized their past wrong-doings and thought about the consequences, my father would not be forwarding me my sister's letters. It's a ploy, so that he can see me again and he is using his children in order to tempt me into responding.

 

Since I have empathy, and I also grew up desperately trying to love my father, I would feel intense aggravation, anger or rage at being used in this way by someone who has complete authority over me. This is why I refuse to parley with him no matter how much my siblings miss me. When they are adults, they can come and find me if the so choose.

 

Nathan, you didn't answer any of my questions from reply #20.

[_LiveFree_]

Are you asking me to identify the source of my rage?

 

I know the source of my rage, but I'm still looking at strategies for addressing it. Giving up meaningless sex, drugs, and alcohol is just the start of a new beginning.

 

My rage comes from my former inability to stand up to my family, and speak my mind. When I finally did stand up and tell them who I was, which happened just before I stopped drinking, it was like they didn't recognize me. I was openly mocked by my father, and my mother started to act extremely nervous around me. She nearly ran away from me when I asked her about the time my father bloodied her nose while I was listening to them argue from the next room. She refuses to acknowledge that it happened, but I know it did, even if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

 

Of course, this reaction is understandable, but every interaction I've had with them since then has been extremely manipulative, of which this thread is the prime example. They know how to say the words, "I'm sorry," but they have no idea how to own the consequences of that admission. If my parents recognized their past wrong-doings and thought about the consequences, my father would not be forwarding me my sister's letters. It's a ploy, so that he can see me again and he is using his children in order to tempt me into responding.

 

Since I have empathy, and I also grew up desperately trying to love my father, I would feel intense aggravation, anger or rage at being used in this way by someone who has complete authority over me. This is why I refuse to parley with him no matter how much my siblings miss me. When they are adults, they can come and find me if the so choose.

 

Nathan, you didn't answer any of my questions from reply #20.

 

 

That's really interesting. No I wasn't asking about the source of your rage. 

 

I said, "Are you not rageful?"

You said, "No, not since I stopped drinking."

I said, "How did you process the rage when you stopped drinking."

 

Then you said, "Are you asking me what the source of my rage is?"

 

Do you see it?

[J. D. Stembal]

That's really interesting. No I wasn't asking about the source of your rage. 

 

I said, "Are you not rageful?"

You said, "No, not since I stopped drinking."

I said, "How did you process the rage when you stopped drinking."

 

Then you said, "Are you asking me what the source of my rage is?"

 

Do you see it?

 

I didn't answer the third question, except with a question.

[_LiveFree_]

That's really interesting. No I wasn't asking about the source of your rage. 

 

I said, "Are you not rageful?"

You said, "No, not since I stopped drinking."

I said, "How did you process the rage when you stopped drinking."

 

Then you said, "Are you asking me what the source of my rage is?"

 

Do you see it?

 

 

I didn't answer the third question, except with a question.

 

That's very surface. And you can't answer a question with a question. Can you look deeper? The fact that you can't see this says volumes. And it isn't like you're a bad person or stupid because you're not. It's because you have an emotional block to it, which is what your dream from the other thread was trying to tell you. 

 

Go through this back forth again and see if you can see what you're doing.

[J. D. Stembal]

That's very surface. And you can't answer a question with a question. Can you look deeper? The fact that you can't see this says volumes. And it isn't like you're a bad person or stupid because you're not. It's because you have an emotional block to it, which is what your dream from the other thread was trying to tell you. 

 

Go through this back forth again and see if you can see what you're doing.

 

I am avoiding the rage because I am afraid that it will consume me, and kill me. Every time I cry, or feel a wave of anger, my neofrontal cortex shuts down completely for several moments. The loss of control scares me. I know it is a perfectly natural adaptation to my upbringing, but that doesn't make me any less fearful. I want a different fate than my father, better choices, and children who will grow to love and respect me, not fear and loathe me.

[_LiveFree_]

I am avoiding the rage because I am afraid that it will consume me, and kill me. Every time I cry, or feel a wave of anger, my neofrontal cortex shuts down completely for several moments. The loss of control scares me. I know it is a perfectly natural adaptation to my upbringing, but that doesn't make me any less fearful. I want a different fate than my father, better choices, and children who will grow to love and respect me, not fear and loathe me.

 

brilliant.

 

I know that you've had bad experiences with therapists in the past, but it's time my friend. 

 

http://selfleadership.org/practitioners.html

 

if you can't find one close by then use www.talkspace.com

 

 

You'll never have children who love and respect you as long as you don't love and respect yourself. And you are not loving and respecting yourself when you hold those emotions back. A therapist can help you safely release this rage. One thing you're right about is that it will consume you, but only if you keep holding it in. 

[J. D. Stembal]

You'll never have children who love and respect you as long as you don't love and respect yourself. And you are not loving and respecting yourself when you hold those emotions back. A therapist can help you safely release this rage. One thing you're right about is that it will consume you, but only if you keep holding it in. 

 

Right!

 

I have seen the swath of emotional and physical damage my family has wrought on both sides, maternal and paternal. My only cousin on my mother's side invited me to her second wedding, and I politely refused to attend. She didn't ask me why, but she must know (or thinks that she does). Otherwise, she would ask.

[_LiveFree_]

Right.

 

I have seen the swath of emotional and physical damage my family has wrought on both sides, maternal and paternal. My only cousin on my mother's side invited me to her second wedding, and I politely refused to attend. She didn't ask me why, but she must know (or thinks that she does). Otherwise, she would ask.

 

You're whole family, immediate and extended, knows because they are all holding that same rage inside. It spreads like a virus that no one talks about. What makes you different is that you are now turning to face it and you have a real chance to stop it. 

 

If you haven't already, I recommend listening to this podcast

http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1575/you-are-not-alone-freedomain-radio-interviews-dr-richard-schwartz-freedomain-radio

 

 

and this one..

http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1815/flourishing-through-self-attack-a-mecosystem-listener-conversation

[J. D. Stembal]

You're whole family, immediate and extended, knows because they are all holding that same rage inside. It spreads like a virus that no one talks about. What makes you different is that you are now turning to face it and you have a real chance to stop it. 

 

If you haven't already, I recommend listening to this podcast

http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1575/you-are-not-alone-freedomain-radio-interviews-dr-richard-schwartz-freedomain-radio

 

 

and this one..

http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1815/flourishing-through-self-attack-a-mecosystem-listener-conversation

 

That's very cool of you to link those videos for me! I can't recall if I listened to them or not because they are before my time here. I will hit them up again if I have.

 

Where are my upvotes? I'll have to get you back later.

[Kurtis]

I have not been able to talk to my brother and sister about my familial separataion, but I irrationally hoped that my father would process my ostracism, admit to his shortcomings as a parent, explaining my reasons to the kids.

Great work in this thread JD. I'm so sorry for your predicament, it is one that I too am dealing with. My defoo, despite my desires, broke the relationships with my much younger siblings. The reason being that they do not see the truth of our parents yet.

 

This situation of a child's experience of suffering versus the parent's narrative of being loving caregivers destroys the child's perception of reality, of self worth, of good and evil.

 

Once we see the truth of our parents failings it seems so obvious. But our younger siblings are still too deep in it, they aren't there yet.

The cause of these opposing perspectives is our parents inability to take responsibility for their actions, their failure to accept reality. In order for these sibling relationships to heal, either the parents must tell their children the truth (which they may never be able to do) or the siblings will have to find their own way to the truth. Look how long it took you and I to get there, it's not easy.

 

The only thing I'm able to do at this point is to be the best version of me, reaching for my full potential. The truth of this happiness will eventually outshine the poison of the family. In order to be emotionally free to do these things I had to accept that I may never have a relationship with my siblings. It sounds like you understand this and I agree with Nathan's advice about therapy. Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing.

 

 

I completely agree with Lens, I think he described this better than I could:

  

What you said is very true they are using her to obtain your coming back and btw your father will never change like most parents because these parents have to go thru so much guilt because of what they have done to their children before even going on resolving their own childhood that is why most parents use manipulative "sweet" words or use younger siblings to inflict guilt on you, they do this to you to avoid self knowledge because your defoo is showing them that they are not good people. 

 

Obviously your sister in my view is a victim because she is still a child and she cannot be held responsible for her actions and she cannot understand that you escaped the prison where she is in right now (without knowing) and she has been in that prison for 7 years, she has been swallowing a new dose of your family poison each new day, her brain and pathways are intoxicated already and deeply and she cannot see herself the prison she is in because it is unbearable for her as a child, remember when we were children we also used dissociation to not to feel and see the prison we were in.

 

...the more you abandon your hopes for "a better family" the more you will be free of them, there was never good family and there will never be and it takes time and therapy to fully accept this painful truth.

 

 

 

 

Also my experience after reading MMX'S post and a very good point by Nathan at the end (of which you, JD, have already accepted but I thought it was worthy of repeating)

 

Well, MMX's post was quoted and responded to so I read it. F*** me I agree with him.

 

...

 

This thread isn't about your siblings being hostages. It's about you remaining a hostage to your parents.

[_LiveFree_]

That's very cool of you to link those videos for me! I can't recall if I listened to them or not because they are before my time here. I will hit them up again if I have.

 

Where are my upvotes? I'll have to get you back later.

 

You're doing great work, so I gave ya another

[J. D. Stembal]

This thread isn't about your siblings being hostages. It's about you remaining a hostage to your parents.

 

 

I knew this fundamentally from the beginning. It's why I started the thread. If it was out of concern for my siblings only, it wouldn't make much sense to start a thread now. I've been dimly aware of the abuse and neglect for years (since 2008). The inciting factor was my deFOO followed by my sister's letter, which can't be a coincidence, as I have already mentioned.

 

In the reply which is still missing, I mentioned that about a week before I received the letter, my brother and sister left me a voicemail from their mother's phone. I assumed that it was my father calling against my wishes so I did not answer. This is another reason why I know that he hasn't told them the truth. If he knew that I would not answer (and he should have known), why would he give the phone to his kids and have them call me to talk?

 

If my brother and sister had approached him and said, "Let us call our brother," the honest reply would have been to say, "J. D. is very sad and doesn't want to talk," or something like that. Instead, he's creating this illusion that I am inexplicably not answering my phone or mail. The next step is for my father to bring the kids across the country to my door to tempt me again. I don't think he will go that far, though. He's a little too much of a penny pincher to bother with that kind of expense.