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I listened to this yesterday.  Even though they are both hopeless statists, I thought it was a pretty interesting conversation.

 

One thing that kept striking me is that Dan is such a pragmatist that he always wanted to take everything that Sam was saying and immediately frame it around political implementation.  I think a lot of the time Sam was just trying to put forward the ethical case for claiming that certain behavior is objectively better than other behavior.  However, Sam does seem to have this philosopher king mentality, where some pure agency with only noble intentions is going to able to justly police the world.

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