Mister Mister Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Hi I am curious if anyone here has thoughts or experiences with groups like the Masons. I spoke to a guy at a recruiting booth last weekend, and was a little interested. I was especially compelled by the quote on their tent, "Carpenters build houses. Masons build men."Years ago I did a lot of research on groups like this, from the perspective of conspiracy theories, alternative history, esoteric symbolism, geometry, and so on. I'm not so interested in any of that stuff anymore, but I like the idea of a social group where I might meet more like-minded people. What do you guys think? 1
shirgall Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 "Carpenters build houses. Masons build men." Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
labmath2 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. What?
PatrickC Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Hi RoseCodex, I've been puting together a presentation around the history of Friendly Societies and Mutual Associations recently. Organisations mostly set up by men to protect their families more efficiently and collectively. I've noticed that masonry seems to feature quite a lot in my research. Leading me to believe that masons have been misrepresented over the years. But this shouldn't come as a surprise to us I think, since mens spaces (of all kinds) have been routinely pilloried in recent decades. Masonry seems to tap into that competitive urge in men to perform better. As far as I can see it was often a method by which working class men could aspire to the middle or even upper classes by merit and reputation alone.
Befree Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Hi I am curious if anyone here has thoughts or experiences with groups like the Masons. I spoke to a guy at a recruiting booth last weekend, and was a little interested. I was especially compelled by the quote on their tent, "Carpenters build houses. Masons build men." Years ago I did a lot of research on groups like this, from the perspective of conspiracy theories, alternative history, esoteric symbolism, geometry, and so on. I'm not so interested in any of that stuff anymore, but I like the idea of a social group where I might meet more like-minded people. What do you guys think? Priests run to the temple. Warriors run to the mountain. Keep in mind this is just my opinion so take it or leave it. I’d personally recommend hitting rock bottom before you make the decision to join that house. You may find that the person you are, after you do, isn’t the person you were when you had the urge to join. If you’re looking to build your manhood, avoid the empty words of priests. Any word or action not built on courage is a lie. You should, instead, take the rights of passage. Think of them like the 12 Pillars of Hercules. A grand adventure! Do you remember that scene at the end of India Jones where Indiana has to take the leap of faith across the invisible bridge? The steps are kind of like that. Remember, only courage and penitence will get you passed the 12. Good luck to you. I hope you find what you’re looking for.
shirgall Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Priests run to the temple. Warriors run to the mountain. A minor nit, but the phrase is supposed to be that warriors run "towards the sounds of gunfire"... (and it's "rites" of passage as in rituals, not "rights")
PatrickC Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I’d personally recommend hitting rock bottom before you make the decision to join that house. You may find that the person you are, after you do, isn’t the person you were when you had the urge to join. If you’re looking to build your manhood, avoid the empty words of priests. Befree yours is a common misunderstanding of the Masons. Sure Masonry has been used for evil (and benign) purposes on occassions (like all instituitions) by certain Lodges. But it has mostly been used for the good and a way for men to improve their lot in life, as well as that of their local communities. Much charity and philanthropy came about as a result of the Masons. The famous Dr Barnado who literally saved the lives of thousands of children on Londons streets was a very famous Freemason that used hs connections within his Lodge to further his cause. http://www.freemasonrytoday.com/news/lodges-chapters-a-individuals/item/1165-dr-thomas-barnardo-freemasons-children-s-saviour-historic I think it's quite sad that most of these 'private' instituitions barely exist anymore. And what's left is often ridiculed and much maligned. These were great opportunities for people to connect with their local communities and build real bridges together. These days it seems the expectation is that the state will perform all these duties on our behalf. 1
Befree Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 A minor nit, but the phrase is supposed to be that warriors run "towards the sounds of gunfire"... (and it's "rites" of passage as in rituals, not "rights") Good point. Rite is probably the right Correct word. Because, it could also be interpreted as the "lefts of passage". Sorry, always had a hard time telling my rites from lefts. Befree yours is a common misunderstanding of the Masons. Sure Masonry has been used for evil (and benign) purposes on occassions (like all instituitions) by certain Lodges. But it has mostly been used for the good and a way for men to improve their lot in life, as well as that of their local communities. Much charity and philanthropy came about as a result of the Masons. The famous Dr Barnado who literally saved the lives of thousands of children on Londons streets was a very famous Freemason that used hs connections within his Lodge to further his cause. I think it's quite sad that most of these 'private' instituitions barely exist anymore. And whats left is often ridiculed and much maligned. These were great opportunities for people to connect with their local communities and build real bridges together. These days it seems the expectation is that the state will perform all these duties on our behalf. Most religions can claim the same. I’m not saying there isn’t good masonry. What I am saying is, like most religions, it has been hijacked. The gatekeepers give a spoonful of sugar (truth) so you don’t taste their poison. Its best to do the rites alone. Lessons are best learned the painful way. They stick better.
PatrickC Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Most religions can claim the same. I’m not saying there isn’t good masonry. What I am saying is, like most religions, it has been hijacked. The gatekeepers give a spoonful of sugar (truth) so you don’t taste their poison. Its best to do the rites alone. Lessons are best learned the painful way. They stick better. I'm sorry but I don't know what any of that means. Religion, spoonful of sugar to disguise the poison? You need to give specifics, rather than just nefarious suggestions. 1
Befree Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I'm sorry but I don't know what any of that means. Religion, spoonful of sugar to disguise the poison? You need to give specifics, rather than just nefarious suggestions. I don't need to give you anything. Go to the temple or do the research for yourself? My guess is you already did, or you wouldn't be so adamant to defend masons. I’m not speaking negatively against all Masons, mainly just the overly ambitious ones at the top. But, since you seem to be an expert, how about you give "me" specifics on how they aren't like all the other religions of the world. And for the record, let me better describe my “nefarious suggestions”. Priests of the masons only give you enough truth/knowledge to keep you somewhat satisfied. And then they sell it as the whole truth. And they do that in order to keep you from climbing too high up the pyramid. And then they use Police any time you try to climb up the pole of knowledge on your own. Typical priests behavior. They say they are protecting the knowledge but they are really just hiding it in order to control you. What Police force do you work for Patrick? 1
shirgall Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I don't need to give you anything... He only asked you what you meant, and asked that you be specific in your charges. That didn't really call for a broadside.
utopian Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The Mason's symbols are on the Federal Reserve Notes for a reason. They run the dollar and enslave the US, as well as are in league with the other bankers. Don't go helping them.
PatrickC Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Symbols now as well as hearsay.. Seriously chaps, this is a philosophy forum. 2
BaylorPRSer Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Befree, I can't follow what you're saying. Will you give specifics please? Also, what's wrong with not giving the whole truth in the beginning? If a teacher thinks that revealing truths in a specific order is the best way to do it instead, then that's his or her right, no? It's not necessarily malicious.
Bluecat Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 You must believe in god to be a mason, not any specific god and you are not allowed to push your religeon on other masons. None are superior to others in their views. My grandfather was a mason and i have his masonic bible it has a lot of old Egyptian stuff in it as well as the christian bible. I have some ideas about this but no facts why this is important to them. All I know about joining the masons is "ask one to be one" is their motto. And they have to approve you, you must be of good character, though i have no idea what the criteria is.
PatrickC Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 All I know about joining the masons is "ask one to be one" is their motto. And they have to approve you, you must be of good character, though i have no idea what the criteria is. Right, you raise a good point Bluecat. You have to be invited and be of good character. In other words men had to show qualities that were of reputable value. I see no problem with this. Sure they may have some strange ceremonies and much is said about their voodoo handshake. Much of that has been toned down in the last 100 years. But rituals have been a big part of men reaching manhood. I don't hold much significance to them myself, but I can appreciate that historically this was how men often showed their allegience to each other. In particular with those that they shared values with.
Mister Mister Posted July 3, 2015 Author Posted July 3, 2015 Priests run to the temple. Warriors run to the mountain. Keep in mind this is just my opinion so take it or leave it. I’d personally recommend hitting rock bottom before you make the decision to join that house. You may find that the person you are, after you do, isn’t the person you were when you had the urge to join. If you’re looking to build your manhood, avoid the empty words of priests. Any word or action not built on courage is a lie. You should, instead, take the rights of passage. Think of them like the 12 Pillars of Hercules. A grand adventure! Do you remember that scene at the end of India Jones where Indiana has to take the leap of faith across the invisible bridge? The steps are kind of like that. Remember, only courage and penitence will get you passed the 12. Good luck to you. I hope you find what you’re looking for. that's a very compelling group of words, it doesn't really have anything to do with my question. I am interested in weeding out all the esoterica and getting to what the Masons actually do and whether it would be worthwhile to join them or a similar group. If you have facts or arguments or personal experiences to bring to bear, great! But I'm not sure what you're getting at otherwise. Symbols now as well as hearsay.. Seriously chaps, this is a philosophy forum. Thanks Pat.
Bluecat Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 Rose My grandfather was the most moral even tempered man i have known in my 54 years. Whether this was due to the masons or not I do not know.
Befree Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 that's a very compelling group of words, it doesn't really have anything to do with my question. I am interested in weeding out all the esoterica and getting to what the Masons actually do and whether it would be worthwhile to join them or a similar group. If you have facts or arguments or personal experiences to bring to bear, great! But I'm not sure what you're getting at otherwise. Thanks Pat. Maybe you should just join. And then get back to us and let us know how it went. I doubt they’ll force you to swear to secrecy or anything like. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
Befree Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 Befree, I can't follow what you're saying. Will you give specifics please? Also, what's wrong with not giving the whole truth in the beginning? If a teacher thinks that revealing truths in a specific order is the best way to do it instead, then that's his or her right, no? It's not necessarily malicious. Specifics about what? The bridge and the apoloGy part? In principle, nothing is malicious with teaching in sequence. The problem is, in practice, the teaching usually ends up not happening at all. Think about how many deserving lost boys never find the word because the “enlightened” hide it, pretending to be its protectors. Sad. Is it really worth trusting priests who, instead of enlighten, create mock ceremonies, when in actuality, they were probably too afraid to go out into the real world and do the steps alone. NO! SORRY! You can do it alone. Fuck Priests! And fuck the masons! Teachers shouldn’t withhold. A right is something you are entitled to at birth. Like the truth. People who hide the sun, you should be wary of. They are selling you their angle on God. They’re probably trying to cheat their way into heaven.
utopian Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 Symbols now as well as hearsay.. Seriously chaps, this is a philosophy forum. You just wait till I post my condensed history of money. It's condensed, and its 20 pages long. The Masons are absolutely in control of the Fed.
PatrickC Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 You just wait till I post my condensed history of money. It's condensed, and its 20 pages long. The Masons are absolutely in control of the Fed. Well I look forward to reading that. The thing is I have no doubt that Freemasons have been responsible for any number of considerably shady deals with govts in the past. They are no different to CEO's (Corporations) that lobby govts to improve their market share. Or in Britain like the fledgling British Medical Association (BMA) that lobbied govt for the National Health Service (NHS) to undermine the then powerful Mutuals, that were driving down the costs of heath care, including doctors pay. State power has always been one method many private groups and institutions have used (and continue to use) to gain access to subsidy, increased profits and better market share. However, none of that interests me, as the cause is 'state power' and not the institutions and individuals that successfully lobby them. I'm much more interested in the concept of Freemasonry and what it has (and can) achieve for the good. For which there is plenty of evidence. You can actually find Masons that were responsible for building Mutual Associations that brought cheaper and more affordable health care and widows pensions to their members on the one hand. And then find other Masons in direct conflict with them within the BMA that were actively seeking ways to undermine those Associations via the state. There was once apparently a fight that took place in one of Londons top Gentlmens clubs, the 'Marlborough-Windham Club' on Pall Mall (now closed), between those members that supported Mutuals and those that supported the BMA. So there was clearly strong opposition amongst Masons themselves. Maybe the institution of freemasonry as it stands now is defunct (corrupted by state power). At least for the purposes for which it was originally intended. It's certainly significantly weaker than it once was, despite all the conspiracy theories that continue to surround them. I'm not looking to join a Lodge myself any time soon. But I think it's reasonable to look at its concept and see how similar but better institutions can be built in future perhaps.
Tweak Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 Hi I am curious if anyone here has thoughts or experiences with groups like the Masons. I spoke to a guy at a recruiting booth last weekend, and was a little interested. I was especially compelled by the quote on their tent, "Carpenters build houses. Masons build men." Years ago I did a lot of research on groups like this, from the perspective of conspiracy theories, alternative history, esoteric symbolism, geometry, and so on. I'm not so interested in any of that stuff anymore, but I like the idea of a social group where I might meet more like-minded people. What do you guys think? I have spent the last 3-4 years studying secrete societies and I live right across of a lodge used by multiple societies. When I was a taxi driver I used to drive them to and from their gatherings. Would you be a part of a church because of their moral values? Just like the church the masons values are based in pretty muddied waters. To be honest with you, if you seek to better yourself to become a moral person I suggest you do that elsewhere. Those people are far from moral.
Mister Mister Posted July 4, 2015 Author Posted July 4, 2015 I have spent the last 3-4 years studying secrete societies and I live right across of a lodge used by multiple societies. When I was a taxi driver I used to drive them to and from their gatherings. Would you be a part of a church because of their moral values? Just like the church the masons values are based in pretty muddied waters. To be honest with you, if you seek to better yourself to become a moral person I suggest you do that elsewhere. Those people are far from moral. How do you know? Also, aren't there a number of organizations which use the name Mason or Freemason? Aren't you lumping them all together based off of speculation and anecdotes?
shirgall Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 All this talk of masons is building up to something, I'm sure. 2
Tweak Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 How do you know? Also, aren't there a number of organizations which use the name Mason or Freemason? Aren't you lumping them all together based off of speculation and anecdotes? How do you know? Also, aren't there a number of organizations which use the name Mason or Freemason? Aren't you lumping them all together based off of speculation and anecdotes? How do I know? Well as I told you in the previous post I have studied them for 3-4 years. If I´m lumping them all together? Well yes I do. On speculation? Both yes and no. Some things I can only speculate in. However my answer to you is solely based on facts. Different organisation that use the name freemason? Well you have different lodges. They can differ in some ways depending on the country. But freemasons are freemasons. I assume you are an anarchist and an anarchist who wants to join a lodge is almost as funny as an anarchist joining the church. All this talk of masons is building up to something, I'm sure. It always does. I have not had any discussion online in some years. It never goes anywhere. The topic is enormous. Simply put it you have 2 groups of people when it comes to this. Those who will arrive at the conclusion that the masons are responsible for the everything, much like a God is to religious people and then those who say that it´s just people getting together. Both groups are wrong. And this was my last post in this topic! Over and out:) 1
Mister Mister Posted July 4, 2015 Author Posted July 4, 2015 How do I know? Well as I told you in the previous post I have studied them for 3-4 years. If I´m lumping them all together? Well yes I do. On speculation? Both yes and no. Some things I can only speculate in. However my answer to you is solely based on facts. Different organisation that use the name freemason? Well you have different lodges. They can differ in some ways depending on the country. But freemasons are freemasons. I assume you are an anarchist and an anarchist who wants to join a lodge is almost as funny as an anarchist joining the church. Well I guess I am asking for the facts. I thought I have stated that pretty clearly and repeatedly this whole thread. I just want to know more, so if you or anyone else has facts or arguments or experiences that I can learn from, please provide them. But all I am getting from you and other detractors is this vague, paranoid, shame language, which I usually hear from fundamentalist Christians with regards to Masons. Freemasons are freemasons. Yes that is true. Thank you for your insight. Actually I don't think I said specifically I "want to join a lodge", only that I talked with someone at a recruiting booth at a summer fair, and found the conversation interesting and compelling, and I am asking for peoples' thoughts on groups like this. Also, what does anarchism have to do with it? It's a private organization, yes? As far as I know they don't take government money and they don't advocate for any specific policies as a group. But if I am in error please correct me.
PatrickC Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 All this talk of masons is building up to something, I'm sure. A +1 Shirgall for adding some well needed humour to this thread.
shirgall Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 A +1 Shirgall for adding some well needed humour to this thread. I was tempted to link it to the "Thick as a Brick" thread too, but the reaction would be mortarfying.
GregMerwe Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I am not in to stupid ceremonies. I have known mason. A black american from new york taught me austrian economics over IRC was an official mason. He was also a stock trader. I worked with a Mason who would go to ceremonies and he would tell me about them. They have to get dressed up and walk around and then they have a social meeting of kinds. Doesn't realy interest me that much but I am sure it can help your career as you could network with people who have good jobs and outside of golf clubs or tennis clubs there is no other way to meet those kinds of people. You don't see rich people going down the pub and socialising with much more common folk. I don't think they ever did to be honest but its probably more likely to happen these days as the middle class has grown.
powder Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Hi I am curious if anyone here has thoughts or experiences with groups like the Masons. I spoke to a guy at a recruiting booth last weekend, and was a little interested. I was especially compelled by the quote on their tent, "Carpenters build houses. Masons build men." Years ago I did a lot of research on groups like this, from the perspective of conspiracy theories, alternative history, esoteric symbolism, geometry, and so on. I'm not so interested in any of that stuff anymore, but I like the idea of a social group where I might meet more like-minded people. What do you guys think? curious to know what you mean by 'like minded' Codex and what you think an organization like this might provide that would be of interest to you. Why is the quote on the tent compelling to you?
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