SigmaTau Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Someone started a crowdfunding campaign to bail out the Greek government https://www.indiegogo.com/greek-bailout-fund.html#/story 1.2 million collected. target 1.6 billion This is basicly e-begging/scam?, these people will never get their money back if they dont reach the target 1.6B?
MysterionMuffles Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Say hello to free market charity! Hmm I think they get refunded if it doesn't go through. Not sure how crowdfunding works in that regard.
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I don't know about these site in particular, but with Kickstarter, if the goal isn't reached, everyone gets their money back.
GuzzyBone Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 My god, how can people be so stupid as to voluntarily donate to a State that involuntarily extracts money with threats of violence?. This is like watching people crowdfund the mob. Why are people trying to pay off Odious Debt? It's like paying the bills for the charges on your stolen credit card. Madness, but I suppose some people prefer the comfort of a slow and painful and escalating slavery over personal responsibility.
J. D. Stembal Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 If the Greek citizens were actually on the hook for it the full amount (243 billion Euro), they might decide to leave the country. What does crowdsourcing the payment of government debt solve, assuming they could raise anywhere near the total owed?Let Greece be cast out of the EU. It is what needs to happen.
Coogeebay24 Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Even if they were to achieve the goal, the situation would mirror what happened with Chrysler/GM during the financial crisis...bailing the government out allows it to fold on concessions it needs to get from the population (entitlement reform/tax hikes/work force reductions/etc), so in the present things are a bit less tenuous but down the road that money will be gone and the government or company will go bankrupt anyway. If they are going to give money away to anyone it should be to the Greek youth, to say "sorry we ruined your future". Everyone in Greece/Europe that does not have their head buried in the sand can see that this is a SOLVENCY issue not a LIQUIDITY issue.
Alan C. Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 From their Indiegogo page: "...if we all just chip in a few Euro then we can get Greece sorted and hopefully get them back on track soon. Easy." Nope. The problem is that millions of people are consuming what others produce, while producing nothing, themselves. If governments weren't able to borrow money, people would be forced to act with prudence and foresight, and to save for their own retirement.
shirgall Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Let Greece be cast out of the EU. It is what needs to happen. Well, let the EU and other foreign influences be cast out of Greece, too. It would help.
Carl Green Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Surely if everyone else chipped in to pay off all their debts, without requiring them to do anything, they'll take the money, magically be imbibed with the knowledge of how to not let it happen again, and all will be right in the world of Greece for the rest of time.... If you read the Indiegogo page, it's pretty clear the guy knows even less than me about economics, which is to say not at all.
Mister Mister Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recoverWhat do you guys think of this?
Blackout Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover What do you guys think of this? Key differences would be that the German war debt included reparations imposed on the country as terms of surrender for 2 wars, while Greek debt was willingly sought. Another is that the debt forgiveness was to enable a capitalist driven German economy to mature, which would then be in a position to service the rest of the debt, whereas the Greek government wants debt restructuring so that it does not have to make the painful adjustments to decades of profligate spending and vote buying. Edit: Sooner or later, Greek debt will need to be restructured, but I think the rest of the bloc are looking for a pledge of reform so that this doesn't happen again.
SigmaTau Posted July 7, 2015 Author Posted July 7, 2015 German debt quoted, was from loosing WW1 and severly unjust,..,these are punitive debts, not because the thrifty germans went on a spending binge, but this paper is the guardian (thte english pravda), so you know where it is comming from.
Jinr0h Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Please excuse my ignorance when it comes to global finance but isn't this the same as a government bail-out just cutting out the middle-man? I get that its voluntary but in terms of a permanent solution isn't it just kicking the can further down the road? Have the donators provided any conditions to their donations?
Coogeebay24 Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Another reason why it is ludicrious to think of offering a bailout to the Greek govt is what they will do with the money. In a section in Michael Lewis' book Boomerang, he talks about the Greek nationalized rail road which costs so much to run that it would be cheaper to pay for the entire country of Greece to use taxi cabs for the entire year...every year. Give the Greek govt bailout money and they will flush it down the toilet continuing to run a railroad that nobody uses.
Robofox42 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 This is indiegogo, the money is not refunded if they fail to reach the goal (Kickstarter does that). I am guessing they will run with the money after this. I am surprised they raised this much. It looks like an obvious scam. EDIT oops, they have it set to fixed funding instead of flexible so they have to reach the goal to get the funds. nevermind.
Recommended Posts