Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...

I support this cause of course. I guess my question to you would be, how do you see yourself and YT channel as uniquely able to forward it? There are many excellent intactivist organizations already campaigning. Are you targeting a slightly different niche? Couldn't we all share Stef's videos and others? Not meaning to sound antagonistic at all, I'm thoroughly curious of your strategy. Keep up the good fight!  :thumbsup:

 

I apologize for missing your question, Mellomama.

 

It is important for me to speak out about my experience living with the emotional and physical scars of genital mutilation. So few men are speaking out about it, but 60% of male babies are still being mutilated, over 3000 children every day in America. Stefan has a lot of valuable input about peaceful parenting, but as an intact man, he does not have the same insight that I have.

 

I looked around the internet and saw several popular videos where women object to the butchering of genitals. See the feminist, Laci Green, who has several sex positive videos about the intact penis. However, I did not see any mutilated men talking about their experiences. That's the niche that I'm trying to fill, and I want to have a honest conversation with men and women about how to best end the daily suffering of males.

 

Speaking frankly, I was very disappointed by the lack of responses to this thread in a community that supposedly espouses peaceful parenting and awareness of men's issues. I find it very telling that in a philosophy community forum with 95% male membership, the only feedback I received was from a woman, not that I don't appreciate your feedback, Mello.

 

Perhaps philosophic men aren't ready to attack men's issues directly by lending their voice to be heard and recognized. This was the real reason behind me disappearing from the boards for a month.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great stuff.  I'm all for this cause.  I started by arguing with the nurse who scoffed at me when I told them my son would be left intact. (I had already written a note to the hospital and given all my nurses a copy but this one didn't like it and thought she might sway me).  Anyway, I think it's great to speak from experience.  The more people hear about it, the more wheels will turn.  I grew up thinking it was normal (circumcision) even though my dad and three brothers are all intact.  My experience or observation is that many men aren't aware that disadvantages and harm have been dealt to them in this way.  Without awareness there is certainly no anger and no cause to support.  We are at informative stages. Anyway, thanks for sharing :)

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, J.D. Thank you so much for sharing. I was wondering where you had been. Do you mean that it was the MGM issue and this post specifically that left you feeling disheartened? Or more generally regarding men's issues?

 

I appreciate your candor and passion for this issue. I apologize for overlooking your intent in the video. I skipped around and didn't quite follow it when I first listened. I re-listened with more sensitivity, knowing your purpose. And it is very touching. I'm really terribly sorry for your experience and suffering from this trauma. I'm so sad for all circumcised men (and their partners, to a much lesser degree, of course), and I agree with you that this is an extremely difficult issue for men to tackle head-on. There is a very powerful aversion to confronting this issue for men, as you know. It is such a foundational issue for them personally. And I believe you are so right that it has extremely far-reaching and largely unknown effects. I would love to put our heads together to determine the most effective and motivating way to deliver the anti-circumcision message.

 

Regarding the voices of other mutilated men, have you heard of Ron Low? Not only has he done a great job bringing his message to the masses--or at least I thought he had, based on the fact I saw him on a TLC show randomly--but also because he is personally helping circumcised men regenerate (restore) some of their lost tissue, lubrication, and sensitivity. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on him.

 

And I want to apologize again for not listening to your video more thoroughly and sensitively the first time around. I hope you are doing well and feeling embraced by FDR once again.

 

Thank you so much, Mellomama! We should talk about this some time soon!

 

I have not heard of Ron Low, but I have had at least one person tell me to seek out foreskin restoration in this context of vulnerability. I find it to be further disheartening, because it allows some people to dismiss the issue and its severity and allows them to pretend everything is going to be all right with the sex lives of mutilated men, but it will never be right.

 

I'm coming to peace with this reality, slowly. I will never have a normal sex life, and I never did. I will check out any videos of Ron Low's, if I can find them, but I'm not interested in anything less than being reborn as an intact man with parents that care enough about me not to savagely mutilate me, but that is not possible. I've got to be who I am without my foreskin.

Great stuff.  I'm all for this cause.  I started by arguing with the nurse who scoffed at me when I told them my son would be left intact. (I had already written a note to the hospital and given all my nurses a copy but this one didn't like it and thought she might sway me).  Anyway, I think it's great to speak from experience.  The more people hear about it, the more wheels will turn.  I grew up thinking it was normal (circumcision) even though my dad and three brothers are all intact.  My experience or observation is that many men aren't aware that disadvantages and harm have been dealt to them in this way.  Without awareness there is certainly no anger and no cause to support.  We are at informative stages. Anyway, thanks for sharing :)

 

I'm out of reps, Bruce! I owe you one. :internet hi5:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm struggling with this issue a lot right now. I managed to have an intactivist block me today via email, and I'm consulting with a therapist. I cannot pursue a lawsuit as the statue of limitations doesn't cover genital mutilation, so I have no way of financially dissuading doctors from doing it in the future.

Genital mutilation is a keystone issue for my health and wellness.

 

 

Listen to this show and you will understand how I am feeling now. We live in a world that hates men.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing JD. I agree, it is important to have actual accounts from men who are affected by this horrible breach in bodily integrity; you can argue from the logical aspect of it, and that is crucial, but it's also important to pay attention to the deep physical and emotional harm inflicted upon men as well, as that is really one of the most damaging parts of genital mutilation. Unfortunately, the same with feminism in general, it seems like people respond to women more often because men are so often dismissed and looked down upon when they try to bring up anything close to men being discriminated against, while women have some protection from that blatant dismissal.  Do you agree?

 

I'm also curious, did you always feel this way about genital mutilation, or was there some sort of revelation that you had?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing JD. I agree, it is important to have actual accounts from men who are affected by this horrible breach in bodily integrity; you can argue from the logical aspect of it, and that is crucial, but it's also important to pay attention to the deep physical and emotional harm inflicted upon men as well, as that is really one of the most damaging parts of genital mutilation. Unfortunately, the same with feminism in general, it seems like people respond to women more often because men are so often dismissed and looked down upon when they try to bring up anything close to men being discriminated against, while women have some protection from that blatant dismissal.  Do you agree?

 

I'm also curious, did you always feel this way about genital mutilation, or was there some sort of revelation that you had?

 

Thank you for the supportive words, Hannah.

 

I know that there are other men thinking about this issue out there, but they are too afraid to speak out. This thread is proof of that. On a forum of 95% men, no other men are confronting their emotions about genital mutilation, but me.

 

It's been a slow unfolding of events in my life that has allowed me to see just how harmful this abuse was. This process accelerated last summer when I gave up alcohol, drugs and sexual relationships.

 

There has to be sexual abuse in my past, but I can't recall being molested as a child, only the pain and agony of my mutilation and subsequent parental abandonment. My father did spank my bare ass.

 

I have unexplained quirks. I would hold my bowels and delay voiding them for as long as possible as a child. I have extreme difficulty urinating if anyone is present. I obsessively scratch at my scrotum when I am having trouble sleeping, so much so that I've given myself lacerations. I have to religiously clip my finger nails.

 

I've gone to see the urologist thinking that I had a STD due to repeated painful urination, but it turned out that nothing was wrong with me. How was I in pain if nothing was amiss? The body remembers the trauma of genital mutilation even though the conscious mind wants to forget. I want this curse lifted from my body!

 

I recall having negative thoughts about my circumcision as a teenager and keeping a journal, but very soon thereafter, I had a depressive meltdown, almost flunked out of school, and was drugged by my parents. I burned the journal, and stopped keeping one from that point forward.

 

I matured sexually and actively courted girls at a young age, eventually losing my virginity at age 18. I don't recall having an orgasm during intercourse until weeks into this very short relationship.

 

My genitals are fucked up to put it mildly, and no doctor botched the procedure. The procedure itself is designed to botch men's sex lives. After twenty years of alcoholism, meaningless sex and self-medication, I am now brave enough to be angry, and other men are trying to get me to go back into the box.

 

A couple women have suggested that I restore my foreskin, as if that will erase the trauma I experienced.

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't even listen to that long enough to get to the restoration part. I don't know how that guy (Ron Low) can talk to such ignorance constantly and not lose his mind. Do you talk to people that act like that? What do you do? I guess if it's in person I can manage to vent my frustration in some way, whereas listening is even more painful. Because I do talk to some people who think like that. But not very often. Jay Thomas sounds so arrogant. And ignorant, obviously. Maybe that's why/how we can pity people like that; they are ignorant. I don't know. Just trying to think it through.

 

I had a short conversation with my friend from Illinois about it last night. He's my last friend, the only one that still speaks with me, and he's a terrible listener, which speaks volumes about me.

 

He's mutilated, and shows some of the signs of trauma that I have related in the thread. He is of the mind that nothing can be done about it, so why be angry? He contends that his penis works fine the way it is. He also has a son, who is eleven. I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.

 

He changed the subject as soon as I asked him if he had ever witnessed a circumcision as an adult.

 

 

How can any doctor do this? I can't even watch it. I can only listen. Nope, I can't make it to the ten minute mark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My deepest sympathies, Mutilated Man.  I'm very sorry to hear of what you've been dealing with.  Heartbreaking, really.   I can't believe it is so common.  And when I've spoken out about it people rush to each others defense and gang up on me like I'm cruel or something.  It's overwhelming...

 

I am giving you many internet high-fives. To where should I send them?

 

Attention all FDR ladies, this is now the thread in which you should be posting. At some point, we're bound to have a curious and philosophically-minded man wander in and dare to speak his mind on this topic.

 

Where's Serious Susanna?

 

P.S. Per Mello's suggestion, I will be re-recording this video with better equipment so you can actually see my face. Keep watching this thread for a GoFundMe link. If one of my guests can raise nearly $4000 to pay for a road trip with her dying dog, I can manage $300 for a 1080p camera. The only difference is that she has nice tits, and I have a malfunctioning penis, so let's even up the odds!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey JD, Thankyou for your work.

 

I do find it interesting that no men have contributed to this post (aside from you of course). There must be many here who have been mutilated themselves who could share their thoughts and experiences. I've been aware of this post for some time but have just read it all now...

 

I myself am intact... it is one of the few things, and possibly the most important, that my mother got right. I don't know why she made the choice she did but perhaps it's due to her parents being European (if my understanding is correct that it is less prevalent there? ).

 

Hearing about your experience with being mutilated has brought me to a deeper insight into the issue. I've listened to Stef's podcast on the topic, and have always known my whole life that I'd never do it if I had children. But I always had thought of the effects as being mainly physical.

 

Now, thanks to your honesty, I can see the greater impacts of having this done. I've been able to remove my mother from my life and have more recently achieved great success in healing the damage she caused in my psyche. I can see how damaging genital mutilation would be to one's mental health, and a daily reminder of the parents lack of empathy, or inability to stand up to culture/family to protect the child.

 

I'm so sorry for the pain and suffering this has caused for you. I agree that any kind of restoration procedure is not the answer. What is the hope for you to be free from this trauma? Can it be achieved with therapy and self work despite the permanent physical damage?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so sorry for the pain and suffering this has caused for you. I agree that any kind of restoration procedure is not the answer. What is the hope for you to be free from this trauma? Can it be achieved with therapy and self work despite the permanent physical damage?

 

I am in therapy now, which is currently focused on my alcoholism and traumas, and I'm dropping half a lifetime of baggage all over the place. Thank you so much for replying, Kurtis! The support brings tears to my eyes!

 

Every day now, I wake and up and wonder how I can be a better human being, whereas before I hardly ever dreamed when I slept due to being so intoxicated and distracted by my efforts to self-medicate. I wanted to kill myself in the worst manner possible, the slow poison of cowardice.

 

I knew that something wonderful was going to happen today, and it did! :woot:

 

I will never be healed of my affliction, but I'm making the best out of it by practicing courage. If nothing at all happens or changes in this world, at least I have it now. I know how to use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey JD, Thankyou for your work.

 

I do find it interesting that no men have contributed to this post (aside from you of course). There must be many here who have been mutilated themselves who could share their thoughts and experiences. I've been aware of this post for some time but have just read it all now...

 

I myself am intact... it is one of the few things, and possibly the most important, that my mother got right. I don't know why she made the choice she did but perhaps it's due to her parents being European (if my understanding is correct that it is less prevalent there? ).

 

Hearing about your experience with being mutilated has brought me to a deeper insight into the issue. I've listened to Stef's podcast on the topic, and have always known my whole life that I'd never do it if I had children. But I always had thought of the effects as being mainly physical.

 

Now, thanks to your honesty, I can see the greater impacts of having this done. I've been able to remove my mother from my life and have more recently achieved great success in healing the damage she caused in my psyche. I can see how damaging genital mutilation would be to one's mental health, and a daily reminder of the parents lack of empathy, or inability to stand up to culture/family to protect the child.

 

I'm so sorry for the pain and suffering this has caused for you. I agree that any kind of restoration procedure is not the answer. What is the hope for you to be free from this trauma? Can it be achieved with therapy and self work despite the permanent physical damage?

 

I had a relevant conversation with a friend of twelve years who is also circumcised. I suspect his son is also circumcised by the way he is reacting lately.

 

He attempted to scare me for starting a drive to fund my video camera when he saw the message on Facebook. He said, "You're going to get thrown in jail."

 

I didn't know what he was talking about so I replied, "For what?"

 

"Raising money for your circumcision video."

 

"How is this any different than my guest asking for $5000 so she can tour around the country in her BMW X5 with a pet that is supposedly dying of cancer?"

 

"The difference is that she has tits and you don't."

 

"That's why I'm only asking for $500, and I know the odds of reaching my goal are low. How is this different than you running a kickstarter for homebrewing beer?"

 

"You're going to piss people off. That's why it's different."

 

"Well, fuck 'em."

 

I am beginning to see why no other circumcised FDR members are replying here in support. They are scared out of their minds about standing up for their own genital integrity. It really is a shame!

My deepest sympathies, Mutilated Man.  I'm very sorry to hear of what you've been dealing with.  Heartbreaking, really.   I can't believe it is so common.  And when I've spoken out about it people rush to each others defense and gang up on me like I'm cruel or something.  It's overwhelming...

 

Bruce,

 

I cannot PM you, so I will reply here. Please contact me over Skype at jonathan.stembal. If Skype sucks for you, or isn't your thing, you can email me at the same address at Gmail - [email protected].

 

(Kurtis, I extend you the same invitation!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UPDATE

 

The camera has been ordered. I will have it by Saturday, Sept. 19th. Today, I'm working on the script. The goal is to keep the video under 5 minutes, but pack the greatest punch with the message.

Concise, concrete, and convincing are the adjectives to which I aim.

If you'd like to offer any input, or are just curious, I'll read it over Skype upon request.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

J. D. you are a hero. I just zeroed on exactly what these self-defenses look like. They look like exploited upholding their exploitation, if only they did that for their exploitation alone.

 

I don't want to assume. Are you speaking of male victims refusing to speak out against circumcision?

 

There is a reason why men do not do this. They do not wish to appear weak and sexually defective and impotent to the eggs around them.

 

As I speak with more and more women about this topic in my private life, I have noticed a pattern. Women get frightened or threatened when a man dares to play the victim card, and is vocal about it. I was explaining the significance of my mutilation and the repercussions it has had on my sex life to my neighbor, and was repeatedly told that my experience was not like other circumcised men, and therefore I must be an unusual case. Something else must be causing my sexual dysfunction, she thought.

 

I'm so glad that this woman had a daughter and not a son!

 

I told her that my experience does not lie. I have erectile dysfunction, and trouble enjoying vaginal intercourse, and that this was caused by having 80% of my nerve endings removed from my penis as a baby. I've had these problems all my life, and they are only getting worse with age. None of my relationships have made it past 20 months. What chance do I have to keep a woman interested enough to want to have a loving and stable family with me? It's not very likely, and I am making peace with this reality.

 

The script is coming along slowly but surely, and the camera came in today. I played around with it for a few hours, and I now have nearly all the functions down without the aid of a manual since it did not come with one.

 

I will post a Google Document in this thread for people peruse the script and suggest changes. Since I'm crowd-sourcing this video production endeavor, I thought that I would go whole hog and get the philosophy-minded working on my side. Great idea, eh?

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just saw this, and I dont think I can watch the videos since its so stomach churning to think and visualize the horrer. But I constantly see "crunchy" mama groups on facebook just absolutly against circumcism, absolutly against it. I'd be happy to help you find the groups if you want to join if you are on facebook. You can share the story and maybe get some more support.

 

And that sucks your relationships did not last past 20 months, have you read real time relationships yet? And at least you did not end up with someone who would ignore or downplay something that affected you so much.

 

I am giving you many internet high-fives. To where should I send them?

 

Attention all FDR ladies, this is now the thread in which you should be posting. At some point, we're bound to have a curious and philosophically-minded man wander in and dare to speak his mind on this topic.

 

Where's Serious Susanna?

 

P.S. Per Mello's suggestion, I will be re-recording this video with better equipment so you can actually see my face. Keep watching this thread for a GoFundMe link. If one of my guests can raise nearly $4000 to pay for a road trip with her dying dog, I can manage $300 for a 1080p camera. The only difference is that she has nice tits, and I have a malfunctioning penis, so let's even up the odds!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, Susana. I know about all the Facebook groups. I have also read Real Time Relationships. None of my interpersonal relationships will survive it.

 

I am a year and change guy. I will date women for a year or so before breaking it off. It is my way of protecting myself from having a family, and stems from the lack of the bond with my mother and father.

 

I do not trust women when it comes to family issues. They say they want one thing, and do the opposite. All the anecdotal evidence I have points to this conclusion. It is a bait and switch.

 

My mutilation makes sustaining a long-term relationship even more difficult because I am less interested in sexual intercourse than many women, and that is non-negotiable in relationships. The man has to want it more than the woman or the balance of power shifts away from the eggs, and all hell breaks loose.

 

On a positive note, I received a supportive comment on my document last night just before I kicked off to sleep. I'm not sure where it went, but I thank whomever it was for the very inspiring message. I assume that it was left by a man from Facebook or FDR, and it was anonymous.

 

There are men out there that feel the same way that I do about genital mutilation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Here's a comment left by the latest donator to the cause of voluntaryism through genital integrity.
 

 

Looking forward to your video. I appreciate that you are taking a more personal approach. Most other discussions of circumcision talk about it in an abstract sense but I don't think I've ever heard anyone discuss how it affected them directly. I've thought many of the same ideas you bring up, like how could my parents have done this to me, or that circumcision must have had some influence on my sexual disfunction and should be considered sexual abuse, but never really felt like I could legitimately express those thoughts or even believe them internally. Great first draft. If you are interested in reading a book which shows the spread of circumcision and FGM along with other aspects of abuse I highly recommend Saharasia by James Demeo.

 

Thoughts and attitudes such as this give me hope for my cause. Thank you so much for the support. I am over 1/5 of the way to my funding goal!

 

Sincerely,

 

J. D. Stembal

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I apologize for missing your question, Mellomama.

 

It is important for me to speak out about my experience living with the emotional and physical scars of genital mutilation. So few men are speaking out about it, but 60% of male babies are still being mutilated, over 3000 children every day in America. Stefan has a lot of valuable input about peaceful parenting, but as an intact man, he does not have the same insight that I have.

 

I looked around the internet and saw several popular videos where women object to the butchering of genitals. See the feminist, Laci Green, who has several sex positive videos about the intact penis. However, I did not see any mutilated men talking about their experiences. That's the niche that I'm trying to fill, and I want to have a honest conversation with men and women about how to best end the daily suffering of males.

 

Speaking frankly, I was very disappointed by the lack of responses to this thread in a community that supposedly espouses peaceful parenting and awareness of men's issues. I find it very telling that in a philosophy community forum with 95% male membership, the only feedback I received was from a woman, not that I don't appreciate your feedback, Mello.

 

Perhaps philosophic men aren't ready to attack men's issues directly by lending their voice to be heard and recognized. This was the real reason behind me disappearing from the boards for a month.

 

 

Hey my friend. I want to say first that I really appreciate and admire your bravery and work on the subject. I'm circumcised as well and this is a very important topic for me because it ultimately led to me breaking off all communication with my sister.

 

My sister had brought up the topic of circumcision as being horrifying as an abstraction of something other people do to their children, but then when confronted with the reality that my mother had chosen to circumcise me, she expressed absolutely zero empathy towards me and refused to knowledge the evil of my mother for doing so.

 

The root cause of circumcision remaining prevalent is male disposability and people like Lacie Green actually are reinforcing male disposability by abstracting the issue instead of pointing to those ultimately morally responsible: mothers.

 

However, as Stefan has pointed out, this attitude towards men is only possible because of the state taking the place of men and fathers economically.

 

The movement is growing primarily because of economic pressure related to state reimbursements not because of any fundamental change in the morality of mothers in the US.

 

The most productive thing men like us can do is be morally courageous enough to condemn women(and men) who subject their boys to this horror and stand our ground until the economic realities for women change and they are forced to acknowledge the pain of men.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hey my friend. I want to say first that I really appreciate and admire your bravery and work on the subject. I'm circumcised as well and this is a very important topic for me because it ultimately led to me breaking off all communication with my sister.

 

My sister had brought up the topic of circumcision as being horrifying as an abstraction of something other people do to their children, but then when confronted with the reality that my mother had chosen to circumcise me, she expressed absolutely zero empathy towards me and refused to knowledge the evil of my mother for doing so.

 

The root cause of circumcision remaining prevalent is male disposability and people like Lacie Green actually are reinforcing male disposability by abstracting the issue instead of pointing to those ultimately morally responsible: mothers.

 

However, as Stefan has pointed out, this attitude towards men is only possible because of the state taking the place of men and fathers economically.

 

The movement is growing primarily because of economic pressure related to state reimbursements not because of any fundamental change in the morality of mothers in the US.

 

The most productive thing men like us can do is be morally courageous enough to condemn women(and men) who subject their boys to this horror and stand our ground until the economic realities for women change and they are forced to acknowledge the pain of men.

 

Tyr,

 

I am honored to be considered your friend. Your words are appreciated!

 

I am sorry that your sister had internalized the parental abuse which you received. It surmise that is cognitive dissonance. She vehemently opposed circumcision on moral grounds, but when confronted with the knowledge that her own brother was violated in this manner, she was unwilling to challenge the idea that she was raised by virtuous parents. Genital mutilation is an indicator of a deeper hatred of children. I don't think it can be fully explained by simple economic incentives created by government programs. Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act definitely do not help the situation, though.

 

Please read my script, and give me notes! It is now in it's final draft, but I'm still willing to tweak it a little bit before I memorize it.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_9UygzCwj_bMJIpN3WRaMjZ2VpERcddaWn2slw50ulA/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.