Unhappy with Relationship, Afraid of Lonliness

[Dirty Dan]

As I have listened to more FDR, read more philosophy, and pursued deeper self knowlage, I've become dissatisfied with my relationships of choice, in particular the one with my girlfriend. She is a beautiful young lady physically, but I don't feel any real emotional attraction to her. I would like to find a partner whose personality I am emphatuated with, but I am unsure that I want to lose the stability of my current partner and pursue a (unfortunately uncommon) woman who is strong willed, ambitious, and virtuous. Because I have seen so few of these women my age, I am afraid that if I give up this relationship to search for someone I may be happier with, I am afraid that I will not find the kind of person I'm looking for, and I will have given up a chance at my current relationship. Also, my lizard brain is telling me how hot my current girlfriend is and what a mistake it would be to give her up. Should you be in a realtionship with someone you know you could never love?

 

What is a healthy way to deal with this decision?

Also, where can a young man (18) find a self-knowledgeable (real word?) woman his own age?

[MMX2010]

You don't know whether you'll never love her.  You just feel, right now, that you won't.

 

Have you tried discussing philosophy with her, and if so, what's the first topic you mentioned? 

[Dirty Dan]

I have talked to her mostly about peaceful parenting, religion, and self-knowledge. She rejects the legitimacy of peaceful parenting, unquestioningly believes in God (Islamic God), and brushes off any attempt I make at guiding her to therapy or even interest in self-knowledge. I feel emotionally much older than her even though we are only a year apart in age.

[MMX2010]

I have talked to her mostly about peaceful parenting, religion, and self-knowledge. She rejects the legitimacy of peaceful parenting, unquestioningly believes in God (Islamic God), and brushes off any attempt I make at guiding her to therapy or even interest in self-knowledge. I feel emotionally much older than her even though we are only a year apart in age.

 

My own sense of women is that the ideal sequence is: Humor, Daily Life, Their Own Childhood, Your Own Childhood, Your Parents, Their Parents, Peaceful Parenting, Religion, Politics, Economy.   If you hit her with too many topics at once, she gets confused. 

 

Very rarely, you can find a woman genuinely interested in politics who isn't a feminist, but don't expect that. 

 

Also, this may sound unrelated but it's not.  Are you physically fit?  Do you dress well? 

[Lens]

We usually choose or cling to what is familiar to us. It looks like you did not have a good mother and this girl is a perfect parent figure/replacement. Have you listened to any of Stefan podcasts about childhood loneliness and the relationship mother/child ? Are you open to talk about your childhood ? Do you consider that you had a good mother and that it is purely your fault that you make bad choices ? or you consider that your choices are the template you learned in childhood from your mother. The template you internalized which your mother may have provided you with through education, punishment and rejection could be this, she could be saying this in your head "You must change not me, you are guilty not me, I am perfect you are not, Only me can love you, Don't desert me or I will be sad, You must love me, You cannot live without me, You will suffer from loneliness if you leave me, I don't owe you anything I am your mother and you owe me everything, etc etc etc"

 

In my view it is not a coincidence that you have this girlfriend in your life though knowing why and the reasons that led to your choice is what will help you to avoid them in the future. If you have a wound and you ignore it, it does not mean that the wound is gone and the wounds from childhood go into the unconscious and pretty much run our lives. This podcast can help you 

 

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_312_Girlfriend_Part_2.mp3

[Dirty Dan]

My own sense of women is that the ideal sequence is: Humor, Daily Life, Their Own Childhood, Your Own Childhood, Your Parents, Their Parents, Peaceful Parenting, Religion, Politics, Economy. If you hit her with too many topics at once, she gets confused.

 

Very rarely, you can find a woman genuinely interested in politics who isn't a feminist, but don't expect that.

 

Also, this may sound unrelated but it's not. Are you physically fit? Do you dress well?

I dress well and am very physically fit, I excercise often and don't eat bread, corn or sugar. I dress myself well. How may this be related?

[Dirty Dan]

We usually choose or cling to what is familiar to us. It looks like you did not have a good mother and this girl is a perfect parent figure/replacement. Have you listened to any of Stefan podcasts about childhood loneliness and the relationship mother/child ? Are you open to talk about your childhood ? Do you consider that you had a good mother and that it is purely your fault that you make bad choices ? or you consider that your choices are the template you learned in childhood from your mother. The template you internalized which your mother may have provided you with through education, punishment and rejection could be this, she could be saying this in your head "You must change not me, you are guilty not me, I am perfect you are not, Only me can love you, Don't desert me or I will be sad, You must love me, You cannot live without me, You will suffer from loneliness if you leave me, I don't owe you anything I am your mother and you owe me everything, etc etc etc"

 

In my view it is not a coincidence that you have this girlfriend in your life though knowing why and the reasons that led to your choice is what will help you to avoid them in the future. If you have a wound and you ignore it, it does not mean that the wound is gone and the wounds from childhood go into the unconscious and pretty much run our lives. This podcast can help you

 

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_312_Girlfriend_Part_2.mp3

Thank you, Lens. I am going to therapy and working out my family problems, but I would say that I am only in this position because I have not found a women with my desired characteristics. This sounds bad, but if I met this woman today, I would dump my girlfriend to be with her. I think I have a good understanding of the personality of woman that I want, and it's very different from my mother in a lot of ways.

 

I would say that I had a good mother relative to what I believe to be the average mother. I have an ACE of 0 (if you don't include my own suicide attempt). Although I could be wrong, I've tried to draw connections between my mother's behavior and my own flaws, but I cannot make many. I am not at all opposed to talking about my childhood.

[J. D. Stembal]

As I have listened to more FDR, read more philosophy, and pursued deeper self knowlage, I've become dissatisfied with my relationships of choice, in particular the one with my girlfriend. She is a beautiful young lady physically, but I don't feel any real emotional attraction to her. I would like to find a partner whose personality I am emphatuated with, but I am unsure that I want to lose the stability of my current partner and pursue a (unfortunately uncommon) woman who is strong willed, ambitious, and virtuous. Because I have seen so few of these women my age, I am afraid that if I give up this relationship to search for someone I may be happier with, I am afraid that I will not find the kind of person I'm looking for, and I will have given up a chance at my current relationship. Also, my lizard brain is telling me how hot my current girlfriend is and what a mistake it would be to give her up. Should you be in a realtionship with someone you know you could never love?

 

What is a healthy way to deal with this decision?

Also, where can a young man (18) find a self-knowledgeable (real word?) woman his own age?

 

I was also dating a 9-10 when I was 18, but I didn't have any self-knowledge. The fact that you know about the lizard brain is a game-changer. Learn your lesson, move on, and stop dating the 10s, unless they can back it up with something more significant than tits and ass. I can't offer actionable advice on how to find a woman into self-knowledge as I can't yet do it for myself and I'm twice your age. When I figure it out, I'll let you know!

 

(As it seems to me, when I find a woman who acts rationally and possesses self-knowledge, she already has a mate. I'm also not that guy who shortstops the eggs away from other men. That pig doesn't fly in my book!)

 

We both likely need to follow Lens' advice.

[Dirty Dan]

I was also dating a 9-10 when I was 18, but I didn't have any self-knowledge. The fact that you know about the lizard brain is a game-changer. Learn your lesson, move on, and stop dating the 10s, unless they can back it up with something more significant than tits and ass. I can't offer actionable advice on how to find a woman into self-knowledge as I can't yet do it for myself and I'm twice your age. When I figure it out, I'll let you know!

I hear you loud and clear, but when I think about leaving her with no clear path to a better woman, I just get worried and eventually give up in the idea because of the fear that I will no longer have a sexual partner. I get that it's my dick thinking, but I still am extremely resistant, especially because between my and my friends, this is the dream girl physically.

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

I think you've answered your own question in your post. You're more concerned about your own fear than the girl. I'm not in a position to tell you how to deal with the situation, but you've listed some really negative aspects of your relationship and the one prevailing aspect is that she's hot. I would look to analyzing and understanding your fear, then move on to analyzing and understanding women.

 

As for finding the 18 year-old self-knowledgeable woman, let us know if you figure it out.

[MMX2010]

 

As for finding the 18 year-old self-knowledgeable woman, let us know if you figure it out.

 

I hear Jupiter is lovely this time of year.  Maybe Saturn? 

 

Expecting an 18 year old girl to have self-knowledge shows an immense non-understanding of how women think and are raised.  Girls don't develop self-knowledge on their own, but rather through their relationships.  So how is an 18 year old girl going to have a sufficiently large pool of relationships from which she can draw self-knowledge?  (Pro-tip: She can't.) 

[bitcoin]

What you are saying is very contradictory. On one hand you say you are dissatisfied, do not even feel an emotional connection or attraction to her (!), but on the other hand you are "unsure that I want to lose the stability of my current partner". This does not make sense because the relationship you are saying you are in is unstable. You do not have trust. You do not have a bond. 

You wouldn't be losing stability... You would be losing the illusion of such. It sounds to me like you are basically using her for sex (her physical attractiveness) and that you do not actually care about her. I am not trying to be insensitive but either this is a relationship of co-dependency or you are simply being predatory and manipulating her for sex. That is, if you aren't being honest about having no interest or attractiveness to her true, emotional self.

 

"Because I have seen so few of these women my age, I am afraid that if I give up this relationship to search for someone I may be happier with, I am afraid that I will not find the kind of person I'm looking for, and I will have given up a chance at my current relationship. " What relationship? You just told us you don't have an honest or open relationship. Its basically sex.. The only way you have a chance at your current relationship is by being honest. I do find it hard to believe that a virtuous woman would have been ok with this in the first place though. Also, I am almost 18, and I have certainly found women who are incredibly great people to be around. Its not age and its not women. You have to filter out the toxic people, grow yourself and then make space for good people. Good people aren't attracted to this kind of behaviour, in my opinion.

 

"Should you be in a realtionship with someone you know you could never love?"  What do you think? Is that healthy? I recommend reading Real-time-Relationships, it may bring you a ton of insight. When / if you do end up RTRing with people, you will very quickly realize that having a relationship based upon trust, connection, openness, etc. is a necessity and pre-req to intimacy, love and connection. 

All in all, I don't know what you "should" do. But if you are using her for sex, which it sounds like, that is toxic behavior, untrustworthy and certainly not a step in the direction of finding and building the connections with great people. 

 

I will mention, if you are interested, I have started a skype group for young individuals --- 25 and under --- to connect. The goal and what we are moving towards is all being friends, trusting eachother, and if that is not the case, certainly looking into and dealing with that. That being said, we do filter out toxic people of course. If this is something you are interested in, feel free to send me a message. If you are open to RTRing, being honest, vulerable, open, etc. we are always looking for new people. I know that based on this message, it sounds like you may need some time to process, go to therapy, etc.before myself or others would be interested in having you join the community; but you can always reach out and have at us. 

 

Take care man and I wish you the best.These are some hard things you are dealing with. In the end, and for long term success, I think understanding and living with virtue is the most important thing. 

[MMX2010]

I dress well and am very physically fit, I excercise often and don't eat bread, corn or sugar. I dress myself well. How may this be related?

 

This blog lets you know whether you're dressing well or not; start with the Staples articles. 

 

www.masculine-style.com/

 

It's related because, when you tell her about philosophy, she's grading you on your aesthetics as much as (or even more than) on the quality of your arguments.  So if you're not physically fit and dressing well and financially sound and eternally optimistic / happy, those aesthetic qualities detract from your arguments. 

I hear you loud and clear, but when I think about leaving her with no clear path to a better woman, I just get worried and eventually give up in the idea because of the fear that I will no longer have a sexual partner. I get that it's my dick thinking, but I still am extremely resistant, especially because between my and my friends, this is the dream girl physically.

 

You are making this way too complicated. 

 

Why not continue to see this girl and pursue Len's theory on how your lack of self-knowledge ties you to this woman and pursue other women all at once? 

 

(It's not even that difficult to do all three at once.  It's harder to convince yourself that you're allowed to do these things than it is to actually do these things.) 

[Lens]

Thank you, Lens. I am going to therapy and working out my family problems, but I would say that I am only in this position because I have not found a women with my desired characteristics. This sounds bad, but if I met this woman today, I would dump my girlfriend to be with her. I think I have a good understanding of the personality of woman that I want, and it's very different from my mother in a lot of ways.

 

I would say that I had a good mother relative to what I believe to be the average mother. I have an ACE of 0 (if you don't include my own suicide attempt). Although I could be wrong, I've tried to draw connections between my mother's behavior and my own flaws, but I cannot make many. I am not at all opposed to talking about my childhood.

 

 

I believe you when you say that you think that your had a good mother and I think that is the reality your mother wants you to believe since a very young age abuse is always hidden behind good intensions we keep the good intensions in memory and we erase the abuse. I have listened to so many podcasts that now I clearly believe that we repeat a propaganda that we internalized so early about the "normal" childhood. The positive side of you being here and being open to talk about your childhood is that you will learn to de-normalize what was normal in your past. So...in order to see things for what they are it is important you read some books about childhood rearing and I would highly recommend you the book "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller you can find a free copy of it at www.nospank.net (scroll to the bottom of the page) it will help you to remember things and review your ACE score. I am very sorry you had to go through a suicide attempt, that is very painful I have been there too and it is really the biggest crisis someone can go through and it is a signal quite big signal that things are not well within you and it is a good thing you are starting therapy. Also try to schedule a call with Molyneux he can help you a lot, if that happens please private msg me with the episode link. Last point is about the girl you are dating you chose this person for a reason and to know oneself better is to know that nothing is coincidence in our choices we just do things and we are driven by the unconscious in choosing things that is my view of things. Therapy should help you to bring back to the surface what was hidden in the unconscious, at that moment you will say "AHA I was in my childhood all this time without knowing it". Thank you for sharing!

[J. D. Stembal]

I hear you loud and clear, but when I think about leaving her with no clear path to a better woman, I just get worried and eventually give up in the idea because of the fear that I will no longer have a sexual partner. I get that it's my dick thinking, but I still am extremely resistant, especially because between my and my friends, this is the dream girl physically.

 

There is no clear path to a better woman. A woman chooses the man, not the other way around. At some point, you may tire of sex if you hop from one wet available vagina to another. I know the dick wants to make another dick. Slap him around for a little bit. Give him time to breathe. It will give you time to think.

[bitcoin]

There is no clear path to a better woman. A woman chooses the man, not the other way around. At some point, you may tire of sex if you hop from one wet available vagina to another. I know the dick wants to make another dick. Slap him around for a little bit. Give him time to breathe. It will give you time to think.

 

This is incorrect. "There is no clear path to a better woman. A woman chooses the man, not the other way around. "

This sounds like someone who feels defeated.. Sure, a woman chooses the man. But so does the man. I don't plan to date a woman who eats ice cream all day, has 5 kids, etc. ever. This is because I have choice in my own relationships as well. A woman has as much choice as you do in your partner --- the only difference is that arguably women have more access to males who are interested.

This changes the outcome but not the choice.

Also there are many things someone can do to meet and have a relationship with a better woman. How about learning philosophy rather than playing video games? How about focusing on one's health rather than not. Also, the fact that many seemingly wonderful romantic relationships have come from this community would give me the impression that there are certainly things that a man can do. How about confidence? Therapy wouldn't be a clear step in the right direction in positive romantic relationships? 

[MMX2010]

Also, the fact that many seemingly wonderful romantic relationships have come from this community would give me the impression that there are certainly things that a man can do.

 

I've the opposite impression.  There are only two (maximum four) wonderful romantic relationships that have come from this community.  Stefan and MMD are the most obvious two, and I literally cannot think of any others.  (You'll note that none of the long-time, triple-digit green members mention girlfriends or wives.)  So the group-performance seems to indicate that, "The longer you stay in FDR, and the more you post on the FDR Message boards, the less likely you are to find a romantic relationships with anyone, let alone a virtuous woman." 

 

Anecdotally, I'm part of the Best FDR NYC Meet-Up.  There are six regular members (all male), and three are in long-term romantic relationships with women who are NOT FDR listeners or members. 

 

Also anecdotally, I used to be part of the "other" FDR NYC Meet-Up.  It contains six long-time, regular members: two homosexual males (who, when I last met them, were not involved in any long-term relationships), one heterosexual female (who, when I last met her, wasn't involved in an LTR), and three heterosexual males (who, when I last met them, were not involved in any long-term relationships).  One of these men described himself as "having been to therapy for years", and I learned from another member that he also hadn't dated a woman in years. 

 

It is quite possible that all six of those members have found romantic relationships in my absence, but my absence came five months ago, so they would all be classified as short-term romances (for now). 

[Slavik]

As I have listened to more FDR, read more philosophy, and pursued deeper self knowlage, I've become dissatisfied with my relationships of choice, in particular the one with my girlfriend. She is a beautiful young lady physically, but I don't feel any real emotional attraction to her. I would like to find a partner whose personality I am emphatuated with, but I am unsure that I want to lose the stability of my current partner and pursue a (unfortunately uncommon) woman who is strong willed, ambitious, and virtuous. Because I have seen so few of these women my age, I am afraid that if I give up this relationship to search for someone I may be happier with, I am afraid that I will not find the kind of person I'm looking for, and I will have given up a chance at my current relationship. Also, my lizard brain is telling me how hot my current girlfriend is and what a mistake it would be to give her up. Should you be in a realtionship with someone you know you could never love?

 

What is a healthy way to deal with this decision?

Also, where can a young man (18) find a self-knowledgeable (real word?) woman his own age?

Hi Dan.  This is a very interesting question indeed.  As to the question "Should you be in a relationship with someone you know you could never love?"  That would depend on how you define a relationship.  There is such a thing as being alone with people around you.  By that I mean you are around people, yet you have to hide who you really are in order to be with them in the first place, this indeed can a person very lonely.  I have had a wonderful relationship in the past, we have connected incredibly well, it was absolutely wonderful.  Personally I am now hoping to find someone I can connect with on the similar level as I have before.  I really do not see a reason to be with someone where I can not be myself, or where I can not enjoy being with that person aside from physical.  

 

While you are with her, are you really looking for someone?

 

Does she know that you are doing so?  If no, then  how is dishonesty reflected on your moral character?

 

Finally, I imagine like all of us, you have a certain capacity for learning philosophy and exploring your inner self.  What do you think are the markers for it?  Most of us have started from zero when it comes to this knowledge, if you find those markers (honesty, kindness, curiosity and so on) maybe it would be a good idea to look for a woman with those qualities so you could introduce her to the topics you are interested in?  

[PatrickC]

I've the opposite impression.  There are only two (maximum four) wonderful romantic relationships that have come from this community.  Stefan and MMD are the most obvious two, and I literally cannot think of any others.  (You'll note that none of the long-time, triple-digit green members mention girlfriends or wives.)  So the group-performance seems to indicate that

 

LOLosophy! Have you ever actually bothered to ask members of this board what relationships they've had with women (or men). Or are you just assuming again? Seriously man, you wonder why people downvote you with these kinds of bassless (board (borg) collective) assertions. I know myself that Stefan and Mike aren't the only ones to be having (or have had recently) relationships with the opposite sex on this board.

 

But hey, as I've asked you before, where are the ladies you've been drawing to philosophy recently.

[shirgall]

(You'll note that none of the long-time, triple-digit green members mention girlfriends or wives.)

 

 

I mention my wife frequently, and she does listen to shows, but generally the "truth about" shows and less the call-in shows. She doesn't post on the forums, but occasionally reads over my shoulder. 

[MMX2010]

LOLosophy! Have you ever actually bothered to ask members of this board what relationships they've had with women. Or are you just assuming again?

 

"Just assuming" is well-poisoning. 

 

Have you posted a topic within the last year with the phrase "my girlfriend" or "my wife" included in it?  (Not to my knowledge.)

 

Has Kevin Beal?  (Not to my knowledge.)

 

Has Lians?  (No, but he doesn't post very much.) 

 

Now, you're correct that the entire male populace of this message board are happily married but are choosing to keep those happy marriages on the down-low.  However, given Stefan's repeated insistence that Peaceful Parenting is the key to undermining the power of the state, I'm assuming that long-time FDR members who have wonderful marriages with virtuous women would fail to at least mention these marriages.

 

------------------------

 

 

 

 I know myself that Stefan and Mike aren't the only ones to be having (or have had recently) relationships with the opposite sex on this board.

 

Given Stefan's insistence on Peaceful Parenting being the key to undermining the power of the state, I don't view "have recently had relationships with the opposite sex on this board" as equally meaningful as "marrying a virtuous woman, having a child with her, and then raising that child Peacefully". 

 

To my knowledge, only Stefan and Shirgall are married with children they're attempting to raise peacefully.  But I think, in Shirgall's case, he was married to her and had children with her long before joining FDR.  (He wasn't single first, then philosophy, then marriage, then children, then peaceful parenting the way Stefan was.) 

 

I know jpahmad is married, but I don't think his wife is an FDR member.  And I also think he was dating her long before he discovered FDR.  I also know that jpahmad doesn't have any children. 

 

-----------------

 

 

 

But hey, as I've asked you before, where are the ladies you've been drawing to philosophy recently.

 

Yes, you asked that rude snarky question, and I chose not to reply with a rude snarky question of my own.  I pointed out that your rude snarkiness has no place on this message board and was double downvoted.

 

This time, I will point out that you're older than me and have been on this board three times longer than I have, so your life is much more of a testament of what FDR is supposed to accomplish than mine.  So I can understand your wish to defend your life with snark, but it's not called Snarky Parenting; it's called Peaceful Parenting. 

[MMX2010]

I mention my wife frequently, and she does listen to shows, but generally the "truth about" shows and less the call-in shows. She doesn't post on the forums, but occasionally reads over my shoulder. 

 

Were you married to her before listening to FDR or after?