cab21 Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PPFAtranscript072514_final.pdf full footage the center for medical progress posted this interview with a member of planned parenthood. the CFMP also blammed PP for breaking the law for selling body parts for a profit, but it looks like PP does not look to sell to the highest bidder in a free market. PP even seems like they are saying it's wrong to make a profit, if something was moral, making a profit of it would be moral i would think if something was immoral, then profit makes no difference, it's just as immoral do lose money as to make money if one is being criminal. i think if a baby died of natural causes, selling the body parts seems like its amoral and allowable. if the baby is killed, i think that would be the moral issue, and not if the parts are sold after the baby is already dead. after the death, looks like the options are have the baby be medical waste, or used medically for transplants or research. research seems like a better use than mere medical waste.
Donnadogsoth Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Remember the old tv series Battlestar Galactica? It featured these bug-people who lived underground in caves and caverns. I remember that when one of them died, their body was rendered for every useful part, to keep it all in the hive, with nothing wasted.
Mister Mister Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 if we leave the abortion question aside, the moral issue is that they take public money. This ought to be the central issue in the abortion debate. Pro-choice people push back against anti-abortion laws, which is basically the use of violence to prevent abortions, which doesn't generally work any way, and in the extreme cases, violence against abortion doctors and clinics. But when it comes to using violence to force those who don't believe in it to fund abortion, they have no problem. Until both sides agree to put down the gun, we can't have a productive conversation. But yes, I agree, once you've killed the fetus, selling it for money is a moot point. But if you are running a for-profit business, AND taking charitable donations then stop taking government money!
Donnadogsoth Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 "The gun" is going to still exist whether there's a state or not. If children are being killed or abused, other people who believe it's wrong will assume the right to use force to stop those things from happening. Similarly, people who believe it's right will assume the right to use force to allow them to continue happening.
cab21 Posted July 17, 2015 Author Posted July 17, 2015 public money wise, i don't think anything planned parenthood does qualifies under even a nightwatchmen state of police, military, and courts. i think the question could be about if courts should shut down planned parenthood, even if it was a private organization. anti abortion people, i think would say the abortions are murder in the first place, and then the organization has no right to dispose of the body the organization murdered, profit or no profit. like it's not ok to run a hitman business and then say it's ok because the business operates at a loss. i think planned parenthood gets parental consent for this, but if it was called murder, then the parents can't consent to murder of children and can't consent for how to dispose of murdered children. i guess if we don't call the abortions murder, then parental consent for the how the children are disposed would be a amoral thing, because really the baby is already dead, and there was not deemed to be a crime that caused the death.
fractional slacker Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I won't even attempt to weigh in on the morality aspect. The question to me is how would this go in free society? I believe the market would accommodate this procedure to some degree. The question then follows: would you continue dating a person if they said they owned,operated, or were employed at such a company?
regevdl Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I won't even attempt to weigh in on the morality aspect. The question to me is how would this go in free society? I believe the market would accommodate this procedure to some degree. The question then follows: would you continue dating a person if they said they owned,operated, or were employed at such a company? Or my question is...in a free society, who is lining up with a fistful of dollars looking for baby parts? Is there a demand for it ? Will there be a legitimate demand for it? I mean PP gets gvt funds and I noticed that the gvt comes up with projects and then make people think they need it. But are there any non-gvt abortion doctors offering this service? Is there a legitimate demand for it? If not....then it probably wouldn't even be a topic of discussion in a free society for this reason. If suddenly people needed baby parts in a free society, then I guess the moral aspect couldn't be avoided any longer. The other question too is, after the baby is extracted and chopped up, who is in charge of the remains? I mean, I can volunteer as an organ donor and if I did not do so in a healthy state of mind, then no one in my family could easily volunteer my parts. I am sure there are loopholes but this is really grim and morbid when the baby has no rights from start to finish and to the pro abortion I have always asked and never get a straight answer on when does life begin and when do their inalienable RIGHTS begin? If it's at birth, then it's like putting a barrier before they reach the finish line. Like...oopsy...you weren't born, so no rights for you. But they weren't born because of outside deliberate causes, not because of any natural occurance. For example like a running approaching the finish line and I chop off their legs and claim they can't win because they didn't reach the finish line as opposed to they trip and fall on their own bad luck or exhaustion and still are allowed to get up and finish the race and claim a prize if they have qualified.
AncapFTW Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The only market I can think of is for fetal stem cells in medicine, but I've heard of people being treated with their own stem cells and of a group that turned skin cells into stem cells, so I don't see a need for them. They are much cheaper as they are medical waste, though.
green banana Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 who is lining up with a fistful of dollars looking for baby parts? Is there a demand for it ? The demand will stay the same as it is now. If a baby or a toddler has a malfunctioning liver for example, their only chance to make it to a transplant is getting liver cells from an aborted child or from a baby.
regevdl Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The demand will stay the same as it is now. If a baby or a toddler has a malfunctioning liver for example, their only chance to make it to a transplant is getting liver cells from an aborted child or from a baby. I am not medically savvy on this topic but why couldn't healthy adult liver tissue (possibly from living relative) be just as helpful to the inflicted individual? I mean organ grafts/transplants of living individuals and sometimes from cadavers.... is there a shortage of these current resources?
cab21 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Posted July 18, 2015 in the transcript, the PP staff member talked about private companies doing research with the parts, as well as public companies. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/17/health/fetal-tissue-explainer/ this article gives some ways that fetal tissue has been used in medical research. i think it says there are ways to make the fetal tissue from abortions irrelevant in the future. http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/archive/irb/irb_chapter6.htm this government guidelines has some guideline that PP is breaking now, even if the guidelines were made stricter at a later time. it says the doctor performing the abortion cannot know about the donation before the surgery, and cannot change the surgery because of the factor of a donation, and the PP doctor talks about doing both.
green banana Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 You have to wait for some time until the liver has grown. If there is a defect in the liver right from the start, you don't have progenitors cells and or mesynchemal derived cells that 'work'. These are needed for the liver to grow properly and to keep functioning into your adult life. Until stem cell resarch and other methods have matured, there is little you can do to correct a malfunctioning liver for a baby. Plus, new research indicates that these fetal liver cells can also help adults who have dysfunctional liver.
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