Advice on IFS self-therapy?

[Christo]

I recently rediscovered Jay Early's Self-Therapy audiobook and I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the IFS approach, and I'd like to know how you guys have made it work in your life. I have a little experience with this method starting about 8 months back. At first I did the guided meditations and got some success. I tried meditating on my own which didn't work as well and finally did some IFS style journaling. Journaling was the most difficult and painful, but it helped me get to know some very neglected parts of my psyche. I gave up about 2 months in and I'd like to find out how to deal with some issues when I run into them again.

 I ran into real difficulties when the angry and aggressive parts started to come up. I never got into self when those parts were near. I remember being very scared and helpless, and the way I tried to deal with these raging parts was superficially polite and apologetic. There's a strong sence of polarised fear and rage when I read my old journal. If anyone has advice to offer, I'd greatly appreciate it. 

 

 

[TheRobin]

I've done IFS self-therapy for over a year, but I gotta say, the main thing that makes it useful is imo the fact that it takes a stance of curiosity towards your won thoughts and feelings, which is needed for any real change. You can't change what you don't know or understand so listening is a crucial and important first step to anything.

However the whole idea of parts as a sort of mini-person inside of one's self is more problematic than helpful, not least because it's obviously not true, as there are no tens of "mini"-brains inside our own that generate tens of mini-people inside of us, so treating our own emotions and thoughts as if they are people can become problematic, especially because the IFS stance is to basically reparent your own inner parts, which is something that people who come from abusive homes aren't really good at anyways, so it can be overwhelming, especially if done alone and without a therapist.

From earlier podcasts I remember Stef taking more of a Socratic approach with the parts, meaning, listening but also questioning when the reasoning wasn't sound and showing contradictory evidence or invalid logic, where it was present.
Incidentaly this is also the only known method for undoing emotional learning: Retriggering the emotional experience/learning and juxtaposing it to contradictory evidence. IFS does this by first listening to the part and then relive the scene while being there as the "self" and such creating a different situation that's at odds with the memory.
However any technique will do that performs these steps and I found the IFS approach of talking to parts to be one of the lesser useful ones.

The most direct approach that I know so far is probably a combination of what is called "symptom deprivation" and "sentence completion exercises". Symptom deprivation is basically imagining yourself without the symptom and then seeing what comes up. The idea is that, whatever emotional learning creates the symptom will be triggered strongly by it's absence and thus it's content easy to access. Usually you can just dive right in and see what thoughts come up, sometimes it can help to do sentence completion too though. Either way, if you stick to it you should get clear overview of what is actually triggering the emotion.
To put that into IFS terms would be understanding the protector parts and understand the emotions/actions from their view, without trying to fight them or change them.
Regardles of how you arrive at the knowledge of the motivations and thoughts behind it, it's usually helpful to just stick to it a few days without trying to change it, just be aware of why that symptom/emotion shows up and really integrate that knowledge. Last but not least, because our brains do have their own mismatch detection, so if you're conscious of your beliefs and they are indeed false, sooner or later you'll find something that contradicts them, be that either from past experience or just by plain reasoning, which is what then will nullify the original learning.
Of course, the more overarching a learning is (i.e. the more different areas it plays into) the more you might to find mismatches in each area and so on, but generally that's how it works.

Sorry, if it isn't an answer purely based on IFS, but I hope it's helpful none the less

[_LiveFree_]

Hi Christo! Way to go with the working with IFS!

 

I've taken an extended break from doing any work for reasons I won't go into. I love the IFS approach and made great strides quickly when I was working with it. 

 

It sounds like an exile is blending with you when the angry managers/firefighters are coming up. Maybe try some type of totem? Like hold a shoe in your hands and as long as you hold the shoe in your hands you will remain balanced, calm, and in Self. (it can be any object that helps you) When the angry parts come up, ask questions and give honest vulnerable responses. 

 

an example of an interaction i had went something like this...

 

Self: I can feel you there. What is your name?

Angry Part: F*** YOU!! YOU WORTHLESS PATHETIC PIECE OF S***!!

Self: You are very angry, I can see. What are you feeling?

AP: GODDAMMIT YOU'RE F****** RETARDED!! I'M OBVIOUSLY ANGRY!

Self: What are you angry about?

AP: YOU AND THIS STUPID PATHETIC LIFE!

Self: Ok, I really want to talk with you, and I understand you are angry. I agree with you there are parts of our life that we don't like and I haven't always acted in the best manner. But to continue talking with you, may I ask that you lower your voice? I can hear you loud and clear and want to continue listening to what you have to say.

AP: [takes a moment, calms down a bit, then continues] Why do you suck s*** so much?

Self: Thank you very much for lowering your voice. It's much easier for me to processes what you're saying this way. May I also ask that you do not insult me when you speak to me? In return, I will show you the same respect. Also, I promise to not shut you off or turn away from you like I have in the past. I'm so very sorry for neglecting you and shutting you out. My goal in speaking with you is finding out what it is you need, figuring out how to get it, and negotiating so that we both can get what we need and want. 

 

 

It went something like that. Your parts will always know when you're being superficially polite and apologetic. Be honest, be brave, be straightforward. Give to your parts what you want from them, just like any other relationship. Keep in mind that with highly charged parts it may take more than one or many convos to get them to come around. That's ok. If you keep approaching them in a consistent manner they will warm up to you. 

[David Ottinger]

Being somewhere you feel safe helps.  Letting all parts of you know that you're in a safe place and that all parts are welcome helps.   If there is a side attacking another side, which is usually carried out by a manager/protector, try to use the true self to mediate and show appreciation for all aspects of yourself.  After all, this is a defense mechanism that was developed for your survival.   That side of you is just following the programming it was given.   Take note of what mental images come up with this side as well as all sides.  

If a feeling begins to overwhelm you, this is a part flooding the true self.  So, you may want to ask that side of you to distance itself a bit.  It may not want to if this side represents the inner child, for example.  Let's say this side is the child, and he/she is full of fear.  Distancing may cause further fear and anxiety as it will be misconstrued as separation, thus causing a sense of separation anxiety.  When this happened to me, it felt like I was asking this side of me to go out into the open and that I was abandoning this part in a field while a predator was lurking.  Talk about triggering the flight or fight response, right?

The solution that came up was that this part of me hid behind my leg instead of being in my lap.  


Also, pay attention to where upon the body you feel these emotions or sides.  Try to understand why those areas are the focus.  For example, were you hit there?

Or, does it feel like this because you're recalling (also recoiling) when you were being talked down to by a monstrous mother and other adult women like a teacher:

 

 

 

I hope that helps. 

[Pepin]

A good meditation program is Headspace. It costs money, but the guided meditations are very well done and how it builds on each day makes it a lot easier to stick to it.

 

Meditating is pretty great because it allows you to see the separation between you and your thoughts/parts. To communicate with a part, it is very important to not become blended with it. When meditating, you'll find that your thoughts often take over your seat of consciousness, and in a way: you become your thoughts. But with some practice, you'll be able to see the thought or emotion rise without seeing it as you.

 

I'd pretty glad I haven't run into overly angry or mean parts of my psyche. What I run into more are the "does it even matter?" type parts and thoughts. What I both love and hate is that these thoughts are pretty spot on in their assessment. I have two sorts polarized parts, one where I want to strive to change the world and be the best person I can be, and the other pointing out that everyone is going to die and none of that is going to be matter.

 

It's like I want to ensure the environment remains healthy for future generations, but then again I also don't see the point in doing this for people I will never see. And what will my actions achieve, another 50 years of sustainability? And there is the "who am I to decide what people want?" type part.

 

Eh, I am getting carried away. Having done some of this work, I don't understand how people can have such firm convictions or how they can think so easily. I have many many conflicting beliefs and opinions for almost any topic, which I think is healthy. There is a bit of a paradox though, despite the issue becomes extremely clear to me, I have become very sensitive to the subtleties of many different positions. It may be one of those "the more you know about a field the less you feel like you know" things.

 

There are certainly many things I know and understand very well. But there are others topics that seem very simple, but wreck my brain.

[Christo]

I've done IFS self-therapy for over a year, but I gotta say, the main thing that makes it useful is imo the fact that it takes a stance of curiosity towards your won thoughts and feelings, which is needed for any real change. You can't change what you don't know or understand so listening is a crucial and important first step to anything.

 

However the whole idea of parts as a sort of mini-person inside of one's self is more problematic than helpful, not least because it's obviously not true, as there are no tens of "mini"-brains inside our own that generate tens of mini-people inside of us, so treating our own emotions and thoughts as if they are people can become problematic, especially because the IFS stance is to basically reparent your own inner parts, which is something that people who come from abusive homes aren't really good at anyways, so it can be overwhelming, especially if done alone and without a therapist.

 

From earlier podcasts I remember Stef taking more of a Socratic approach with the parts, meaning, listening but also questioning when the reasoning wasn't sound and showing contradictory evidence or invalid logic, where it was present.

Incidentaly this is also the only known method for undoing emotional learning: Retriggering the emotional experience/learning and juxtaposing it to contradictory evidence. IFS does this by first listening to the part and then relive the scene while being there as the "self" and such creating a different situation that's at odds with the memory.

However any technique will do that performs these steps and I found the IFS approach of talking to parts to be one of the lesser useful ones.

 

The most direct approach that I know so far is probably a combination of what is called "symptom deprivation" and "sentence completion exercises". Symptom deprivation is basically imagining yourself without the symptom and then seeing what comes up. The idea is that, whatever emotional learning creates the symptom will be triggered strongly by it's absence and thus it's content easy to access. Usually you can just dive right in and see what thoughts come up, sometimes it can help to do sentence completion too though. Either way, if you stick to it you should get clear overview of what is actually triggering the emotion.

To put that into IFS terms would be understanding the protector parts and understand the emotions/actions from their view, without trying to fight them or change them.

Regardles of how you arrive at the knowledge of the motivations and thoughts behind it, it's usually helpful to just stick to it a few days without trying to change it, just be aware of why that symptom/emotion shows up and really integrate that knowledge. Last but not least, because our brains do have their own mismatch detection, so if you're conscious of your beliefs and they are indeed false, sooner or later you'll find something that contradicts them, be that either from past experience or just by plain reasoning, which is what then will nullify the original learning.

Of course, the more overarching a learning is (i.e. the more different areas it plays into) the more you might to find mismatches in each area and so on, but generally that's how it works.

 

Sorry, if it isn't an answer purely based on IFS, but I hope it's helpful none the less

 

Thank you, it's definitely helpful.

 

I've done sentance completion excercises before and I think I see how it can work in combination with what you call "symptom deprivation". It's a fascinating idea and I can't wait to try it out. I'm not sure though I understand what exactly you meant by a "symptom". In IFS terms, what came to mind was a quality of a part- an emotion or a behavioral pattern for example, but im not sure. Could you clarify?

[Christo]

Hi Christo! Way to go with the working with IFS!

 

I've taken an extended break from doing any work for reasons I won't go into. I love the IFS approach and made great strides quickly when I was working with it. 

 

It sounds like an exile is blending with you when the angry managers/firefighters are coming up. Maybe try some type of totem? Like hold a shoe in your hands and as long as you hold the shoe in your hands you will remain balanced, calm, and in Self. (it can be any object that helps you) When the angry parts come up, ask questions and give honest vulnerable responses. 

 

an example of an interaction i had went something like this...

 

Self: I can feel you there. What is your name?

Angry Part: F*** YOU!! YOU WORTHLESS PATHETIC PIECE OF S***!!

Self: You are very angry, I can see. What are you feeling?

AP: GODDAMMIT YOU'RE F****** RETARDED!! I'M OBVIOUSLY ANGRY!

Self: What are you angry about?

AP: YOU AND THIS STUPID PATHETIC LIFE!

Self: Ok, I really want to talk with you, and I understand you are angry. I agree with you there are parts of our life that we don't like and I haven't always acted in the best manner. But to continue talking with you, may I ask that you lower your voice? I can hear you loud and clear and want to continue listening to what you have to say.

AP: [takes a moment, calms down a bit, then continues] Why do you suck s*** so much?

Self: Thank you very much for lowering your voice. It's much easier for me to processes what you're saying this way. May I also ask that you do not insult me when you speak to me? In return, I will show you the same respect. Also, I promise to not shut you off or turn away from you like I have in the past. I'm so very sorry for neglecting you and shutting you out. My goal in speaking with you is finding out what it is you need, figuring out how to get it, and negotiating so that we both can get what we need and want. 

 

 

It went something like that. Your parts will always know when you're being superficially polite and apologetic. Be honest, be brave, be straightforward. Give to your parts what you want from them, just like any other relationship. Keep in mind that with highly charged parts it may take more than one or many convos to get them to come around. That's ok. If you keep approaching them in a consistent manner they will warm up to you. 

 

Hello Nathan! 

 

I found that a tea mug suits well for a totem. And yes, many times it felt like my parts "saw through" that superficial mask. Reflecting on it has helped me gain better awareness of my habits of dealing with unpleasent situations in a pretentious way. Thanks for the encouraging example. Have a great day!

A good meditation program is Headspace. It costs money, but the guided meditations are very well done and how it builds on each day makes it a lot easier to stick to it.

 

Meditating is pretty great because it allows you to see the separation between you and your thoughts/parts. To communicate with a part, it is very important to not become blended with it. When meditating, you'll find that your thoughts often take over your seat of consciousness, and in a way: you become your thoughts. But with some practice, you'll be able to see the thought or emotion rise without seeing it as you.

 

I'd pretty glad I haven't run into overly angry or mean parts of my psyche. What I run into more are the "does it even matter?" type parts and thoughts. What I both love and hate is that these thoughts are pretty spot on in their assessment. I have two sorts polarized parts, one where I want to strive to change the world and be the best person I can be, and the other pointing out that everyone is going to die and none of that is going to be matter.

 

It's like I want to ensure the environment remains healthy for future generations, but then again I also don't see the point in doing this for people I will never see. And what will my actions achieve, another 50 years of sustainability? And there is the "who am I to decide what people want?" type part.

 

Eh, I am getting carried away. Having done some of this work, I don't understand how people can have such firm convictions or how they can think so easily. I have many many conflicting beliefs and opinions for almost any topic, which I think is healthy. There is a bit of a paradox though, despite the issue becomes extremely clear to me, I have become very sensitive to the subtleties of many different positions. It may be one of those "the more you know about a field the less you feel like you know" things.

 

There are certainly many things I know and understand very well. But there are others topics that seem very simple, but wreck my brain.

 

I was surprised when I saw you mention Headspace. It's a great tool and has been a huge help in my life and probably the main reason why I'm starting IFS again. Only thing that bothers me is their altruistic approach to self-knowlege and I sometimes feel quite resentful towards him. How do you feel about it?

[TheRobin]

Thank you, it's definitely helpful.

 

I've done sentance completion excercises before and I think I see how it can work in combination with what you call "symptom deprivation". It's a fascinating idea and I can't wait to try it out. I'm not sure though I understand what exactly you meant by a "symptom". In IFS terms, what came to mind was a quality of a part- an emotion or a behavioral pattern for example, but im not sure. Could you clarify?

Very broadly and generally speaking it's the behaviour which causes you harm or problems. An example I remember from a book I'm currently reading was a guy who always feared of speaking up during meetings, even though his work and expertise was immense. 

So the symptom in that case was the anxiety or fear he felt that lead him to not speak up. Symptom deprivation would then be to vividly imagine himself speaking up confidently in a  meeting and seeing what comes up. What usually happens is that the emotion (in this case the fear) would increase accordingly, which makes it easy to access and figure out what the fear is about, so that he could understand what the fear is trying to protect him from (in IFS that obviously would be a protector part).

 

In IFS (and in regards to your description of angry parts) I'd say just stay curious about what they're trying to accomplish and why, without fighting them or caving in. 

Personally I find the IFS way to do this way more difficult, as the idea is to stay in "the self" while communicating with a part in order to understand that parts motivations and thoughts and feelings. However I find it a lot easier to just merge with the part and write down my feelings and thoughts from an "I"-perspective than trying to externalize the feeling to a part that's not my "self" and whom I'd have to communicate with from the outside. (To use IFS terms and concepts to a degree here)

 

Of course to each his own, but if you're having trouble staying detached from a part due to the intensity, you might wanna give that a try and see how it goes.

[Pepin]

I was surprised when I saw you mention Headspace. It's a great tool and has been a huge help in my life and probably the main reason why I'm starting IFS again. Only thing that bothers me is their altruistic approach to self-knowlege and I sometimes feel quite resentful towards him. How do you feel about it?

 

I'm on day 33 and I'm not too sure what you mean by the altruistic approach. I have heard that it gets a little more hippie a bit later on, which perhaps is the altruistic approach you are talking about. If not, could you clarify?

 

I found the "think about how your meditation affects your friends and family" to be a bit off putting at first, but I've found it is a good way to bring more awareness to my relationships.

[Christo]

I'm on day 33 and I'm not too sure what you mean by the altruistic approach. I have heard that it gets a little more hippie a bit later on, which perhaps is the altruistic approach you are talking about. If not, could you clarify?

 

I found the "think about how your meditation affects your friends and family" to be a bit off putting at first, but I've found it is a good way to bring more awareness to my relationships.

 

Yes, sure. It's in the first part of meditation when he usually brings the attention to motivation. He says something like "It's really important to reflect on what your motivation for today is. What is it you're looking to learn today. Perhabs just bring into mind that this exercise can have a really big impact on the people you come into contact with." And I agree, it does help to bring attention to how much value you add to the lives of other people and vice versa. 

 I just feel annoyed when contenplating on my own selfish motivations, he quickly comes in with the "impact on other people". It's teasing really. 

[Pepin]

Yes, sure. It's in the first part of meditation when he usually brings the attention to motivation. He says something like "It's really important to reflect on what your motivation for today is. What is it you're looking to learn today. Perhabs just bring into mind that this exercise can have a really big impact on the people you come into contact with." And I agree, it does help to bring attention to how much value you add to the lives of other people and vice versa. 

 I just feel annoyed when contenplating on my own selfish motivations, he quickly comes in with the "impact on other people". It's teasing really. 

 

I get ya. Unfortunately, there are just far too many of hippy memes in meditations at the moment. A large part of it of course is its origin.

 

Headspace has been one of the least hippie quality sources I've found for meditation, which doesn't mean that it isn't there, but much less so than other sources. I haven't been told once to feel my quantum vibrations.

 

The creator of headspace is actually criticized a decent bit on a number of mediation forums for being hypocritical with the "purpose" of meditation. A big problem that people have is that he charges for the product and that he makes a lot of money.

 

What is interesting is that since meditation is becoming very popular among professionals, there is a lot more catering towards people with a capitalistic mindset. There are already two kind of distinctions being made, that between meditation and mindfulness. Meditation seems to have more connotations with inner peace, selflessness, giving up on material possessions, and helping others; mindfulness seems to be more about being more aware of yourself, your decisions, and the effect you are having in your everyday life.

 

Personally, I use meditation to describe taking time out of your day to be mindful, and I use mindfulness to describe the attempt to be more aware. So when you are meditating, you are being mindful. When you are waiting in line at the coffee shop and start to focus on your breath, you are being mindful, but your aren't meditating.