john cena Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 So I came across this video from none other than Oxford Union called "Socialism DOES Work". This guy is so loaded with false dichotomy, incorrect definitions, and general sophistry, I don't even know where to begin. Anyone want to tear into this presentation to help me disprove it? Probably the most absurd thing is where he uses America as an example of the free market..
WasatchMan Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 My rebuttal... Works? Why does that matter? Whether or not something works is not the standard of morality (even though reality has proven socialism doesn't work). Ethics is the standard of human action. Theft is immoral. Force is immoral. Therefore, socialism is immoral. If slavery WORKS should we adopt that? Man stands on principle, not on pragmatism. If "working" is the standard then subjectivism is the rule. 3 1
ProfessionalTeabagger Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 If it "works" then people can chose to voluntarily join socialist institutions. No problem. 2
shirgall Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 In Physics, "work" is merely force over some distance, so, indeed, for every person murdered, maimed, robbed, or just plain cheated (to wit, "everyone"), socialism works.
Libertus Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Socialism does work. It works outstandingly for the ruling class, it works for making the poor poorer, it works for extracting wealth from the productive, and it works for propagandizing the minds of the people so they demand more socialism after socialism has screwed them over. 2
fractional slacker Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Socialism works compared to what? Socialism works to the advantage of the ruling class the way rape works to advantage of those with no romantic sexual value. Rebutting this guy would be like pointing out the use of weapon to a rapist. They will deny, obfuscate, fog, and attempt to distract from anyone pointing out their only tool is the use of force. When they can no longer deny they are using force, they will move the goal posts to defining the use of force as a virtue. Rebutting this guy in front of a live audience might have some benefit. Rebutting socialism on this message board would be preaching to the choir. 1
Alan C. Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 200+ years of socialism and not a single socialist society has created prosperity and abundance for the masses. Instead, it has left a pile of bodies and grinding poverty for the survivors in its wake. 1
AncapFTW Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 He keeps referring to socialism as an "egalitarian" society, thinks rent-controlled government housing is higher quality than houses that people are willing to pay large amounts for, and then complains about "unaccountable multi-national companies" while saying that governments should do everything for everyone. I don't think he's even really looked at the issues, unless you count reading the opinions of those that agree with him.
Magnetic Synthesizer Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 And this is why I seriously doubt the reliability of academia, this extends to public institutions and also why I don't attribute trust to strangers who are scientists as much as the stereotypical code of reason puts foward. How can you initiate force when you don't even have the data to verify your theory that socialism works? Will enter college in about a month. Hopefully, I will find magicall ponies, tankers and moralists.
Magnetic Synthesizer Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Tell him to bring you global data that equals the reach of his claims. And if the data does not represent the claims than ask him to explain the discrepancy. And of course he can't explain 5% of it and claim to have explained -60% (does the opposite right?) of it and fool you. But he is going to fool many others hence the futility. I would engage in such futility for my own challenge if I had an ally of reason. Which I've never had yet. Except on non-moral issues (He was great even with his 80% online score of psychopathy). I know people who can't gauge if they understand something. I won't expect them to gauge data when they don't even know what that is about or why it would ever be relevant. I bet you can change the numbers in a journal from Millions to Billions and very few will notice, thats the data fog we live in and that I have been complaining about since ever. I spent 8 years asking for a mathematical explanation of the monetary system (not jargon). Teachers couldn't even explain why currencies have different value. They could barely regurgitate a half-assed answer. like, ''because (insert 10 min silence) the country is more powerfull'' (not bad lol, I guess if the power results in exclusive petrodollar monopoly on much of oil sales).
Crallask Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I bet you can change the numbers in a journal from Millions to Billions and very few will notice, thats the data fog we live in and that I have been complaining about since ever. I spent 8 years asking for a mathematical explanation of the monetary system (not jargon). Teachers couldn't even explain why currencies have different value. They could barely regurgitate a half-assed answer. like, ''because (insert 10 min silence) the country is more powerfull'' (not bad lol, I guess if the power results in exclusive petrodollar monopoly on much of oil sales). Oh, do you still have that explanation of the monetary system? Was it satisfactory in any way at all?
Magnetic Synthesizer Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Oh, do you still have that explanation of the monetary system? Was it satisfactory in any way at all? Oh yeah, its Good. I can barely check the source since no one knows XD. I just throw at supposed knowledgeable people ''show me any errors in this''. So far it's all I've been doing on the side. I got some 101 from a brilliant A+++ sudent from HEC when I was younger. I asked, he delivered. Atlough It had nothing to do with the monetary fiat side. Just general economics. Wish It wasn't done by a sales man.
Torero Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money, is what Thatcher said. So it "works" only up to the eventual point when and where the money stops and socialist dreams crumble. I've tried to summarise this in a simple image: 6
iBlagg Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 This video popped up in my youtube feed also, was just about to post it here. What's worse is this man is about to become leader of the Labour party. Currently there are 4 candidates running and Jeremy Corbyn has 52% of the vote so far. That bit at the start about Cause 4. This was in the Labour party's manifesto, a commitment to state owned industry and Corbyn has openly said he wants to nationalise the energy industry. And my favourite bit in that video was talking about taxing the rich and giving to the poor. What a 'hero'. Not sure how that proves socialism works but...... I'm actually really happy that he's about to become the leader of the labour party. I think right wing are also happy because the last time someone like Corbyn stood for election they were crushed. 28% of the vote I think. And with the Scottish National Party going nowhere Labour haven't got a chance. In contrast this guy gave the best speech in the debate. The only person I'd choose for Prime Minister, Daniel Hannan, Conservative, Liberal, Euroskeptic. And an excellent orator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QaZEGcoGXo If I find it again I'll post. Daniel Hannan was the only member of parliament to oppose bail outs for the banks. Edit: found the video but don't want to hijack this thread so created another https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/44855-who-would-you-vote-for/
john cena Posted September 15, 2015 Author Posted September 15, 2015 Wow, I didn't get to check on this topic for a while, AMAZING replies guys, thanks a lot. I will certainly use this information to my advantage the next time something like this comes up for debate in my personal life. Scrolling through the well worded and thought out replies, I couldn't help but blow milk out of my nose at the concise nature of your proof. Well done sir
john cena Posted September 16, 2015 Author Posted September 16, 2015 [answered myself] Care to share?
Magnetic Synthesizer Posted September 16, 2015 Posted September 16, 2015 Care to share? was originally quoting the pciture with seoul and asking where that is, then I used google.
john cena Posted September 16, 2015 Author Posted September 16, 2015 was originally quoting the pciture with seoul and asking where that is, then I used google. Ah, it's north korea just for future readers.
J. D. Stembal Posted September 16, 2015 Posted September 16, 2015 The North Koreans are unburdened by electromagnetic interference. 1
john cena Posted September 16, 2015 Author Posted September 16, 2015 The North Koreans are unburdened by electromagnetic interference. It would be very interesting to see the effects on society that has, although it will probably never be allowed by the government. Getting philosophy to people in situations like this massive human farm is a tough one for sure..
Somewhere Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 The gentleman in the video, Jeremy Corbyn, is now the leader of the opposition in the UK parliament. He is very popular with a certain section of the community in the UK, rather as Bernie Sanders is in the US, although Jeremy is not popular with the general public, with 24% seeing him favourably versus 42% unfavourably. He gets his economics from Richard Murphy, an accountant and blogger whose views have been discussed at great length in recent weeks on the blog of Tim Worstall of the Adam Smith Institute.
Recommended Posts